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Interlaced or gauntlet track

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Dr Hoo

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I remember those works (must have been late 1980s) and the contractors' narrow gauge wagonway. But before the 442s, as I leant out of an end droplight to see progress.
You would have been running a severe risk of injury! The shield was extremely tight and actually had 'squeezer wings' on the ends with a view to mitigating the effects of impact to irreversible brain damage rather than instant decapitation.
 
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30907

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ISTR that there used to be gauntletted track over the swing bridge at the north of Selby station. If I remember rightly (and that's not guaranteed!) the points controllong the main and loop lines were to the south of the bridge, with the actual divergance to the north. I have a recollection of seeing it in the early/mid sixties when the ECML went that way and semaphores reigned!.
And there's been a twitter thread only today on this whole topic. Search for
@garethdennis if this doesnt work:

https://www.google.com/search?clien...ymAEAoAEByAEIwAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp
 

D6975

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I think the interlaced track was taken out in the early to mid 1990s when the viaduct was strengthened as part of the Dublin-Belfast upgrade, but I could be mistaken. Certainly no later than 1996 when the most recent Drogheda resignalling was done.
I visited Drogheda in August 1995 and it was still interlaced. I next visited in June 1997 and it was single track by then.
 

507 001

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There’s a very short section on Metrolink. It’s at the bottom of Deansgate Ramp on the inbound, where 1CC and 2CC divide for St Peter’s Square. It’s to keep the point blades clear of Windmill street.
 

hexagon789

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There’s a very short section on Metrolink. It’s at the bottom of Deansgate Ramp on the inbound, where 1CC and 2CC divide for St Peter’s Square. It’s to keep the point blades clear of Windmill street.
The Lisbon tram system has a fair bit of interlaced track on some of the tight curved sections in the older parts of the city.
 

Gloster

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The bridge across the border between Haparanda in Sweden and Tornio in Finland had, and I think still has, interlaced 5’ and 4’8 1/2” gauge tracks.
 

hexagon789

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Indeed it does! Fantastic system, very much a time capsule in places.
I've wanted to travel on the system, in particular the lines still using the older non-modernised cars, since I first became aware of it. Lisbon looks like a very interesting and fascinating city architecturally, culturally and historically with a tram system to match.

Oh and they do those amazing custard tarts - pasteis de nata, what's not to like!

The interlaced track does seem like one of the more unusual features of the system but perhaps it is a wide spread device on tramways where two tracks have to make sharp curves into narrow streets together.
 

edwin_m

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The interlaced track does seem like one of the more unusual features of the system but perhaps it is a wide spread device on tramways where two tracks have to make sharp curves into narrow streets together.
Facing points are generally avoided on tramways unless essential, because on older systems there may be no signalling and the driver has to get out and lever them across with a "point iron". On newer ones they have detection indicators but usually a speed restriction too. So a section of interlaced track may be preferred over two sets of points.
 

hexagon789

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Facing points are generally avoided on tramways unless essential, because on older systems there may be no signalling and the driver has to get out and lever them across with a "point iron". On newer ones they have detection indicators but usually a speed restriction too. So a section of interlaced track may be preferred over two sets of points.
I hadn't considered the aspect, but it makes sense of course. I'd sort of skirted the idea of gauntleted track meaning less points but on the basis of simplifying the track work rather than the actual labour involved in the changing of them for the passage of trams.

On the signalling point though, arguably there's as much danger with having the track interlaced as there is with having it single especially on tight curves where visibility might not be great, though in Lisbon it did look as though the drivers went round such corners very cautiously and then just floored it on the straights where possible
 

edwin_m

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On the signalling point though, arguably there's as much danger with having the track interlaced as there is with having it single especially on tight curves where visibility might not be great, though in Lisbon it did look as though the drivers went round such corners very cautiously and then just floored it on the straights where possible
Yes, an interlaced track is a single line for signaling purposes, and line of sight tramways need to be running slowly enough to be able to stop if encountering a vehicle doing the same speed in the opposite direction. However removing the points, and the need for the driver to check the point indicators, does remove one source of distraction.

I should add to my previous post that the points at the ends of a tramway single line section would generally be spring-operated to send all vehicles approaching in the facing direction onto the correct track. This removes the need for the driver to operate them, but they must still be checked as it's not unknown for then to stick in the wrong position or part way across.
 

hexagon789

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Yes, an interlaced track is a single line for signaling purposes, and line of sight tramways need to be running slowly enough to be able to stop if encountering a vehicle doing the same speed in the opposite direction. However removing the points, and the need for the driver to check the point indicators, does remove one source of distraction.

I should add to my previous post that the points at the ends of a tramway single line section would generally be spring-operated to send all vehicles approaching in the facing direction onto the correct track. This removes the need for the driver to operate them, but they must still be checked as it's not unknown for then to stick in the wrong position or part way across.
I think it's a matter of perception, to me gauntletted track seems rare, I've not really been aware if it seeing much use in Britain even on her tramways of the past. Glasgow had many very tight curves, this caused issues when they obtained ex-Liverpool cars as these were longer so could only be used on certain routes, and I'm not aware of Glasgow having gauntletted tracks to accomodate the tight curves.

Perhaps it simply is/was more common abroad?
 

181

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Facing points are generally avoided on tramways unless essential, because on older systems there may be no signalling and the driver has to get out and lever them across with a "point iron". On newer ones they have detection indicators but usually a speed restriction too. So a section of interlaced track may be preferred over two sets of points.
Was it not common to have some kind of device that enabled the driver to set the points from the cab? -- I seem to remember reading that it was done by either drawing power, or not doing so, at a particular point on the approach to the points. (I do though remember once seeing a tram driver changing points manually somewhere on the Continent, presumably because something had failed to work properly).
 

edwin_m

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Was it not common to have some kind of device that enabled the driver to set the points from the cab? -- I seem to remember reading that it was done by either drawing power, or not doing so, at a particular point on the approach to the points. (I do though remember once seeing a tram driver changing points manually somewhere on the Continent, presumably because something had failed to work properly).
Yes there was, presumably drawing power on the straight route as that would have allowed a higher speed. But it can't have been foolproof, for example if someone stepped in front of the tram so they had to shut off power on the critical section, they would then have had to stop and use the point iron. On more modern systems the driver can select the route using a keypad in the cab, that (on all the ones I know about in detail) operates a transponder that sends a message to a wire loop between the rails. There was an incident a few years ago where someone caused havoc in a Continental city by using something like a TV remote to operate the points, so presumably a different system was used there.

However, as I mentioned above, points at either end of a single line would have been sprung as all trams coming off the single line would (in the UK) take the left-hand track, so none of these would apply. In any of these cases the tram driver is still obliged to confirm that the blade is fully home in the correct setting, either by direct observation or via an indicator, as tramways lack the sort of high-integrity signaling and detection provided on railways.
 

Dr Hoo

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Rather drifting off-thread but the 'power draw' (or not) was quite common with trolleybus wire junctions, as an advance on the conductor having to step off and pull a handle against a 'bias' on the overhead if a diverging route was being taken.
 

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The bridge across the border between Haparanda in Sweden and Tornio in Finland had, and I think still has, interlaced 5’ and 4’8 1/2” gauge tracks.
Wherever these particular gauges are mixed on a single track alignment, there must be four rails, as they are too close in value to allow a three rail configuration with conventional rails and flange clearances.
 

Gloster

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Wherever these particular gauges are mixed on a single track alignment, there must be four rails, as they are too close in value to allow a three rail configuration with conventional rails and flange clearances.

There are indeed four rails.
 

norbitonflyer

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Rather drifting off-thread but the 'power draw' (or not) was quite common with trolleybus wire junctions, as an advance on the conductor having to step off and pull a handle against a 'bias' on the overhead if a diverging route was being taken.
The trolleybus museum at Sandtoft has such installation - on the day I visited some of the volunteer drivers were being trained on it.
 

Whisky Papa

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There is a short but fairly dramatic section on the Prague tram system, just to the north of Malostranské náměstí. At least the road traffic is one way through the other other arch!
 

hexagon789

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There is a short but fairly dramatic section on the Prague tram system, just to the north of Malostranské náměstí. At least the road traffic is one way through the other other arch!
Funnily enough I was due to go to Prague in March and a ride on the tram system was planned.

Definitely looks worthy of a detour when I eventually get there, I'm always drawn to more unusual things of this nature
 

Whisky Papa

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Funnily enough I was due to go to Prague in March and a ride on the tram system was planned.

Definitely looks worthy of a detour when I eventually get there, I'm always drawn to more unusual things of this nature
Sorry you've missed out, hope you get there soon as it's a wonderful city in many respects. You won't need to make much of a detour, the stretch in question is fairly central, only a short walk from the west end of the Charles Bridge. It is also traversed by the trunk 22 route that goes up to the castle.
 

hexagon789

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Sorry you've missed out, hope you get there soon as it's a wonderful city in many respects. You won't need to make much of a detour, the stretch in question is fairly central, only a short walk from the west end of the Charles Bridge. It is also traversed by the trunk 22 route that goes up to the castle.
It was unfortunate - Czechia closed it's borders about 4 data before I was due to travel but it's just one of those things, I'll get there one day.

Excellent, so very easy to incorporate into a trip.
 

Rick1984

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There's a section on Rugby Road in Portsmouth. Not sure why as the road isn't narrow
80 Britannia Rd N
 
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Spartacus

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Yeah, Selby was a very curious one as it was 4 track through the station, down to two tracks, gauntleted over the bridge, then 4 track loops tracks from there. This was so the change from 4 to 2 (and vice versa) from the North East could be controlled from Selby station box.
 

Whisky Papa

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There's a section on Rugby Road in Portsmouth. Not sure why as the read isn't narrow
80 Britannia Rd N

That seems an amazing survivor. It's not a city I know particularly well, but I have walked past the Fawcett Rd end completely oblivious (admittedly after dark and on a pub crawl!). Do you know if it has been covered with tarmac and then subsequently revealed, or have the setts and rails always been exposed?
 

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It does appear to be a bit of ‘heritage’, so it was probably covered for some time, although as it is setts you can’t be sure. It might just have been that the gaps were filled in with tar. There was a plaque that included the words, ‘Work on restoring the road surface was carried out in 1987-88...”, but it appears to have been nicked.
 

vlad

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That's be a tram line. I'd say it's interlaced to allow cars to park either side of the road except the last trams in Portsmouth ran in 1936 so I'm wondering....
 

Gloster

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That's be a tram line. I'd say it's interlaced to allow cars to park either side of the road except the last trams in Portsmouth ran in 1936 so I'm wondering....

The plaque suggested, i.e. that is how I would interpret the phrasing, that this bit of track was laid in 1901 and use of it ended in 1931. Why the tracks were in the middle of the road is not mentioned.
 

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Gloster

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It seems a bit odd to have the tracks interlaced in 1901, particularly as there are houses on the south side. The building on the north side may be a business, but would the tracks been interlaced to avoid inconveniencing one business?
 
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