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What next for class 320s?

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Robinson

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I had been under the impression that the class 320s were set to be moved onto the Cathcart Circle in December to replace the 314s, due to their inability to operate at the new 80mph line speeds on Airdrie-Bathgate. I've now heard that they are being regeared for 90mph and various reports that suggest that some units will be operated on the Argyle line (were they not originally prevented from running this line when they started running in the first place). If they're being upgraded to 90mph running why not leave them on Airdrie-Bathgate?
 
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class156

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I had been under the impression that the class 320s were set to be moved onto the Cathcart Circle in December to replace the 314s, due to their inability to operate at the new 80mph line speeds on Airdrie-Bathgate. I've now heard that they are being regeared for 90mph and various reports that suggest that some units will be operated on the Argyle line (were they not originally prevented from running this line when they started running in the first place). If they're being upgraded to 90mph running why not leave them on Airdrie-Bathgate?

There isn't enough 320s to cover the doubling up of servicies at peak times, that and it looks good for Transport Scotland using the 334s on the Airdrie to Bathgate line.
 

p.d87

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Does anyone know how many 334's are required in daily use on the A2B yet or is it still too early to see diagramms?
 

rail-britain

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If they're being upgraded to 90mph running why not leave them on Airdrie-Bathgate?
It is actually a simple upgrade, fitting the bogies with the "missing" dampers
That is the only reason why the units were limited to 75mph

Each unit will also be sent to Wabtec Doncaster for a full internal overhaul, including fitting of toilet

They cannot be used on Airdrie - Bathgate, like many other EMUs, as they are not fitted with on-train platform cameras / the platforms do not have CCTV / mirrors for the driver
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Does anyone know how many 334's are required in daily use on the A2B yet or is it still too early to see diagramms?
Initially 28 will be required, with 2 operational spare and 2 out of use
If demand is higher than expected then the 2 operational spares will see use, resulting in every second set being 6 cars
 
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p.d87

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so what will the other 8 units be doing the springburns and some argyle line?
 

me123

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From what I understand of Scotrail's cascade plan, the additional 8 334s will be moved gradually onto the new route as the cascade unfolds. I think it allows some degree of flexibility as the 320s go off to get refurbished and the 380s start to enter service.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
OK, I've worked out some more with some information found on Scot-rail.co.uk.

There are to be 36 Class 334 diagrams in service from December (including 2 operational spares), all on the North Clyde Line & through to Edinburgh via Bathgate. If rail-britain's number of 28 is for Airdrie-Bathgate only, that leaves 6 units for Springburn and Airdrie terminators. The remainder (at least 7 diagrams by my reckoning) will be operated by 320s.

There will be 15 Class 318 units on the Argyle line, rising to 18 in April once the last of the 380s enter service. I don't know how many Argyle Line diagrams there needs to be. Based on the current timetable, I would estimate 24 diagrams (again, diagrams thanks to Scot-rail.co.uk). So you'd need at least another 9 units, these being Class 320s, with perhaps some more longer trains as well (which seem to be needed on the Argyle Line). Of course, over the next few months, you're going to see longer trains on this line to combat overcrowding.

There are 20 Class 320 diagrams, split between North Clyde and Argyle duties. So, if at least 9 are for Argyle, at least 7 are for North Clyde, that leaves four units as operational spares or for strengthening.

Many of these calculations are made by myself, and consequently may be catastrophically wrong! (EDIT: They are pretty catastrophically wrong!)
 
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tbtc

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I can't comment on me123's figures, but I found that a very interesting post, showing what may be possible.

I know it's too early to talk of strenthening EMUs on all the Bathgate services, but good to see the logic behind the stock rotation
 

chic

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Interesting post by me123. I think it'll be interesting to see how it works out.

The introduction of the 380's before the timetable change will be interesting to see how that works for a presumably small number of 334's getting put in the new scotrail colour scheme and also for the 320's proposed improvements.

I'm curious as to how many blue 334's will be ready for the A2B opening and how the 320 programme works out.
 

rail-britain

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There are to be 36 Class 334 diagrams in service from December (including 2 operational spares), all on the North Clyde Line & through to Edinburgh via Bathgate. If rail-britain's number of 28 is for Airdrie-Bathgate only, that leaves 6 units for Springburn and Airdrie terminators
I only quoted the diagrams for the Airdrie / Edinburgh via Airdrie diagrams, as that was the question
As previous, this is likely to change as the final timetable is still awaiting approval (closed 13 September)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The introduction of the 380's before the timetable change will be interesting to see how that works for a presumably small number of 334's getting put in the new scotrail colour scheme and also for the 320's proposed improvements.

I'm curious as to how many blue 334's will be ready for the A2B opening and how the 320 programme works out.
On 18 October two Class 380s commence on Glasgow - Ayr, releasing two Class 334 for driver training purposes between Yoker and Edinburgh via Airdrie (due to commence on 18 October, subject to electrification being completed)
By the following week this will increase to six Class 380s in service
One Class 334 will then be revinyled into "spotrail", and by the first week of December at least eight should be completed
The other Class 334s will become spare, allowing the Class 320s to be released from public service

The remaining Class 320 internal improvements will not commence until October
 
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me123

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EDIT: It appears that some of my calculations above are catastrophically wrong, so don't take it as gospel!

Some of it is right, but the bits I've worked out myself appear to be wrong... we shall see.
 

rail-britain

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I also think someone at FSR is expecting a vast increase in passengers, or an increase in unreliability...
There will be two Class 334s spare and once all the Class 380s are delivered there will be a further three of those spare
 

alex57601

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Perhaps they were accepted as spare after the cancellation of GARL has meant there will be a few additional Class 380s available for other duties. Another thing to bear in mind also is that in a few years time in 2014, all the free units available will be needed for the Commonwealth Games, as well as for additional capacity in the meantime.
 

me123

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Well, we do have more than we need (or, at least, we will do come December). But there's a huge demand on the existing routes either side of the Airdrie-Bathgate line (and that's before you consider the additional demand created by the new line over the coming years). Then, you've got plenty of services around Glasgow that really do need lengthening, so perhaps in the medium-term we'll see plenty of additional 6 car sets around the network (particularly on the Argyle Line). As demand for rail travel increases, I think these spare units will see use before we know it!

I would imagine that, for now, they're probably being safe in case there's huge reliability problems with the 380s, as there so often are with new trains. Having a good few units sitting spare is always handy, and I imagine that spare 334s have the potential to be called up to just about any electric route, at least for the first few months anyway if things really do start to fail everywhere (although they obviously won't be doing this routinely).
 

CarterUSM

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Wasn't there a couple of 334's added to the original order of the time due to the problems getting them into service in the first place? It is very good having a surplus however unusual though.
 

rail-britain

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Wasn't there a couple of 334's added to the original order of the time due to the problems getting them into service in the first place? It is very good having a surplus however unusual though
Are you sure you're not thinking of the Class 170s, where SPT was given these as compensation
As far as I can see the original order for Class 334s never changed
 

me123

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According to Wikipedia, they ordered 38, but got 2 more as a "goodwill gesture". However, it's an unreferenced statement.
 

class156

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rail-britain

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I'll check with SPT (RPT), but I think I know what the answer will be; order for 40 but due to late entry compensation was in the form of Class 170 units
 

p.d87

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i dont understand the compensation deals. surely if it was alsthom who had to then why give a bombardier fleet of trains as a good will gesture?
 

The_Stig

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I also think someone at FSR is expecting a vast increase in passengers, or an increase in unreliability...
There will be two Class 334s spare and once all the Class 380s are delivered there will be a further three of those spare

The 380's are to receive their exams during the day. One or two will be for that whilst the extra will be for running faults or used to strengthen services.

The 334's mainly receive their exams during the day also, however, there are still occasional exams at night.
 

rail-britain

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i dont understand the compensation deals. surely if it was alsthom who had to then why give a bombardier fleet of trains as a good will gesture?
The 40 EMUs had already been delivered and were severely delayed into service
The compensation was agreed with the RoSCo by the DoT (as it was at the time), and the options were for two EMUs or two DMUs
As those EMUs would be non-standard it was agreed they should be DMUs
These arrived as 170470 and 170471
 

Damien1986

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The scot-rail.co.uk website says it will be publishing the diagrams that will be used in the next timetable and was wondering if anyone had an idea that when when they issue the class 320 diagrams will they inlude the Argyle Line services they will be utilised on?
 

317 forever

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There is also the question of what trains will replace class 322 on the North Berwick line? I thought class 334s would be taking over, but class 320s could be suitable.
 
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