Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Siemens Trains]

Not at all Gavin, looks like i’ll be the one who actually responds to you first

to be honest I haven’t heard news about it since last year, I don’t know if they will but if they do I wonder if it will effect other routes?

the 44 is the only key Lothian route along Balerno/Currie so limiting the stops there might cause some outroar, the 45 is suspended again anyway and only runs Monday to Friday so it’s not exactly an ideal subsitition.

Along the East corridor won’t be so bad as the 113 practically covers the same route from Abbeyhill-Musselburgh

Pretty sure this was abandoned prior to the coronavirus turning everything on its head anyway. Probably no chance for the next few years now.

There was quite a lot of pushback from locals and I don't think the case in favour was made very well. I know they've done similar pruning successfully in other cities - but maybe they just went ahead regardless of the resistance.

 

[221129]

I can write a more in-depth tutorial if anyone is interested, but I'll wait until I'm at a computer instead of trying to type it on my phone.

That would definitely be appreciated! Thank you.

 

[Ricky Kane]

I see there are a lot of 07 plates buses in Seafield yard as well as the debranded ones at marine. are they selling all the 07 plates?

 

[OmniCity999]

I see there is alot of 07 plates buses in Seafield yard as well as the debranded ones at marine are the selling all the 07 plates

The fleet renewal program is continuing.

Whether large batches of B9's are for sale right now remains to be seen.

New stock is due at the end of the year into 2022.

Demand for bus services isnt great just now, so some fleet is surplus - these may be stored out of use. By which time, new stock will have arrived and demand should be starting to recover.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Around 25-30 of the B9TLs parked across Marine and Seafield. Definitely sale

 

[OmniCity999]

Around 25-30 of the B9TLs parked across Marine and Seafield. Definitely sale

Storage for the time being

just like when the first few tridents where removed from service years ago. Some where stored in Broxburn (site now gone) some were stored at Marine and Seafield and reused regularly.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Storage for the time being

just like when the first few tridents where removed from service years ago. Some where stored in Broxburn (site now gone) some were stored at Marine and Seafield and reused regularly.

Interesting to hear all of this.

My guess is if say they were needed in June (seems unlikely) then they’d be recommissioned until the new builds were to arrive. If nothing changes come October/November then they’d be moved on. I’m guessing they’ll be there a while in any case.

 

[OmniCity999]

Interesting to hear all of this.

My guess is if say they were needed in June (seems unlikely) then they’d be recommissioned until the new builds were to arrive. If nothing changes come October/November then they’d be moved on. I’m guessing they’ll be there a while in any case.

I'd imagine that will be the kind of thing that will happen.

Happened with the Darts, Tridents, B7RLE's and the B7's.

Believe it might have happened with the Royales too, but ive not been around that long!

Its the logical thing to do.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Interesting to hear all of this.

My guess is if say they were needed in June (seems unlikely) then they’d be recommissioned until the new builds were to arrive. If nothing changes come October/November then they’d be moved on. I’m guessing they’ll be there a while in any case.

Why are they being debranded in the case they might be reused though? would it not be more effective to store them with legals/fleetnames on then once its confirmed they’re no longer need to then remove them?

 

[OmniCity999]

Why are they being debranded in the case they might be reused though? would it not be more effective to store them with legals/fleetnames on then once its confirmed they’re no longer need to then remove them?

not every single one is unbranded.

Re adding Lothian names in Legals takes 5 minutes, as they would overlap where the old ones were, so theres no measuring.

They are removed for storage incase a good offer comes in and their good to go, or good to be repainted/swapped operations at a minutes notice.

And also...

Happened with the Darts, Tridents, B7RLE's and the B7's.

Believe it might have happened with the Royales too, but ive not been around that long!

Its the logical thing to do.

it's a common thing thats done with operators all over the country.

if you're still not convinced, just remember its the done thing and that you might be looking too far into it.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Tutorial for the Lothian Vehicle Finder
I do not own or manage the Lothian Vehicle Finder (lvf.io). All the information provided below is from my experience of using the site, and/or from the information provided in the "Help" section, except where otherwise noted. All the images are screenshots I took of the website.
Go to the last section of the post (E) for the "too long, didn't read" summary version.

Long version:

A. Setup & General

1. Go to the lvf.io website. If it's your first visit to the website then the header will likely be "London Vehicle Finder" (showing that the current mode of the LVF is for the London area). To set the site to the Lothian area, type MODE LRT into the bar and press "Go". The header should then change to "Lothian Vehicle Finder".
   • You should still do this even if you intend on searching for vehicles in any of the subsidiaries (East Coast Buses or Lothian Country Buses).
   • If it isn't your first visit to the site, and the last area you used on the site was the Lothian area, then it should remember this and display "Lothian Vehicle Finder" when it loads.
   • All the commands entered into the search bar are, as far as I know, case insensitive.
2. Additional Notes
   • In general, if the Operator* is not specified then the number entered is taken to be a route number. For example entering 30 or HISTORY 30 will give information about Route 30; entering LRT 30 or HISTORY LRT 30 will give information about the vehicle with fleetnumber 30. *Possible operators for the Lothian Vehicle Finder are LRT (Lothian [City]), ECB (East Coast Buses) and LCY (Lothian Country Buses).
   • Whenever a vehicle or multiple vehicles are displayed, they are shown with the following information:
     • Fleetnumber
     • Registration number
     • Current destination (as listed in the timetable - if a vehicle is operating an unscheduled part-route service then the intermediate destination is NOT shown on the LVF: thanks to FlybeDash8Q400 for this information, in this post).
     • The next location it is due to stop at^
     • The time it is due to arrive at the next location^ ^Click the registration number to get more information on these.

B. Find Routes

1. Type in any valid route number on its own and the site will return the following information:
   • Vehicles currently being used on that route (grouped by direction, ordered by fleetnumber).
   • Vehicles which have been used on that route during the day but which are no longer operating that route at the time you search (ordered by fleetnumber) along with the times between which each vehicle was on the route.
   • For example, typing in 38 will return something like the following:
   • 
2. Type in HISTORY followed by a route number followed by a date in format DD-MM-YYYY and the site will show you a list of vehicles which have been used on that route on the date entered.
   • For example, HISTORY 38 20-01-2021 returns the following:
   • 
   • To see a list of vehicles used on a route between two particular dates, add the later date after the above and the site will return the vehicles used between the two specified dates. For example, HISTORY 38 20-01-2021 30-01-2021 (this function wasn't working at the time of writing for some reason).
   • If you're trying to view the history before 01-01-2018, you'll need to use the command FULLHIST instead of HISTORY.
3. Additional Notes
   • As of February 2021, valid routes are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, X26*, 27, 29, X29*, 30, 31, X31*, 33, X33*, 34, 35, 36, 37, X37*, 38, 41, 42, 43, 44, X44, 45*, 47, 47B, 48, 49, 100, 200, 300, 400, X5, X7, 104, 106, 113, 124, 139, 140, X18, X27, X28, 43, 275, 276, 280, 281, N3, N11, N16, N22, N25, N26, N28, N30, N31, N37, N43, N44, N113. *Indicates a route which is currently suspended. List of routes taken from the Bus & Tram App.
   • If there are currently no vehicles being used on a route but there have been earlier in the day, you will only see the "Vehicles that have also been used on the route during the day" section.
   • If there are currently no vehicles being used on a route and there have been none all day, then you will see "This is a valid route, but no vehicles have been recorded on it today".
   • You can only view one route at a time.

C. Find Vehicles

1. Type in the operator code followed by a valid fleet number to see information about that vehicle. For example, LRT 1064, LCY 575 or ECB 20005.
   • 
   • The registration number can also be used instead of the fleetnumber (but I find it easier just remembering fleetnumbers).
   • A range of vehicles can also be requested by entering two fleetnumbers separated with a hyphen. For example LRT 301-350 returns all the vehicles with fleetnumbers between 301 and 350.
   • 
   • If the list contains a fleetnumber which doesn't exist then that number/row of data is simply omitted from the results (e.g. if you enter LRT 300-350 you will get the same results as above as there is no vehicle with fleetnumber 300).
   • As seen above, if a vehicle is currently not in service then you can see when it was last in service.
2. Additional notes
   • Withdrawn vehicles are sometimes not removed from the system for some time, and the "last seen" date will just be some time far in the past.
   • The fleetnumbers are generally allocated as follows:
     • <199 - single deck vehicles
     • >200 - double deck vehicles:
       • vehicles numbered 551-599 are hybrids
       • others are plain diesel.
   • Clicking a registration plate of a vehicle which is currently in service will show a list of the next locations it is due to pass/stop at, and the estimated time it will do so.
   • Clicking a registration plate of a vehicle which is currently NOT in service will show you the history of that vehicle.
   • If a vehicle has special branding then this is shown as a letter immediately following the fleetnumber. For example the Zoo branded B5s show as follows:
   • 

D: Rare

1. Entering Rare will display a list of vehicles currently on routes which they have not worked for the previous two months. For example:
2. 

E: TL;DR (short version)

1. Go to Lothian Vehicle Finder (lvf.io) site. If the big text in bold says "Lothian Vehicle Finder", go to step 2. Otherwise, enter MODE LRT.
2. To see what vehicles are being used on a route, enter the route number.
3. To see what a route a specific vehicle is currently operating, you need to know which subsidiary it operates under. If it's Lothian [City] enter LRT then the registration plate or fleetnumber. If it's East Coast Buses enter ECB then the reg/number; if it's Lothian Country then enter LCY then the reg/number.
   • To see a range of vehicles enter e.g. LRT 1-50.
4. To see vehicles which are operating away from their usual routes, enter Rare.

I've probably forgotten some stuff or mistyped somewhere, I'll edit this if I spot any mistakes or if anyone tells me. If at least one person finds this at least slightly helpful then I've done a good job


EDIT: I've also put this into the LVF.io Tutorial (work in progress) thread but it's merged it with my previous post so it might not give people a notification/show up as unread.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Tha

Tutorial for the Lothian Vehicle Finder
I do not own or manage the Lothian Vehicle Finder (lvf.io). All the information provided below is from my experience of using the site, and/or from the information provided in the "Help" section, except where otherwise noted. All the images are screenshots I took of the website.
Go to the last section of the post (E) for the "too long, didn't read" summary version.

Long version:

A. Setup & General

1. Go to the lvf.io website. If it's your first visit to the website then the header will likely be "London Vehicle Finder" (showing that the current mode of the LVF is for the London area). To set the site to the Lothian area, type MODE LRT into the bar and press "Go". The header should then change to "Lothian Vehicle Finder".
   • You should still do this even if you intend on searching for vehicles in any of the subsidiaries (East Coast Buses or Lothian Country Buses).
   • If it isn't your first visit to the site, and the last area you used on the site was the Lothian area, then it should remember this and display "Lothian Vehicle Finder" when it loads.
   • All the commands entered into the search bar are, as far as I know, case insensitive.
2. Additional Notes
   • In general, if the Operator* is not specified then the number entered is taken to be a route number. For example entering 30 or HISTORY 30 will give information about Route 30; entering LRT 30 or HISTORY LRT 30 will give information about the vehicle with fleetnumber 30. *Possible operators for the Lothian Vehicle Finder are LRT (Lothian [City]), ECB (East Coast Buses) and LCY (Lothian Country Buses).
   • Whenever a vehicle or multiple vehicles are displayed, they are shown with the following information:
     • Fleetnumber
     • Registration number
     • Current destination (as listed in the timetable - if a vehicle is operating an unscheduled part-route service then the intermediate destination is NOT shown on the LVF: thanks to FlybeDash8Q400 for this information, in this post).
     • The next location it is due to stop at^
     • The time it is due to arrive at the next location^ ^Click the registration number to get more information on these.

B. Find Routes

1. Type in any valid route number on its own and the site will return the following information:
   • Vehicles currently being used on that route (grouped by direction, ordered by fleetnumber).
   • Vehicles which have been used on that route during the day but which are no longer operating that route at the time you search (ordered by fleetnumber) along with the times between which each vehicle was on the route.
   • For example, typing in 38 will return something like the following:
   • View attachment 89850
2. Type in HISTORY followed by a route number followed by a date in format DD-MM-YYYY and the site will show you a list of vehicles which have been used on that route on the date entered.
   • For example, HISTORY 38 20-01-2021 returns the following:
   • View attachment 89851
   • To see a list of vehicles used on a route between two particular dates, add the later date after the above and the site will return the vehicles used between the two specified dates. For example, HISTORY 38 20-01-2021 30-01-2021 (this function wasn't working at the time of writing for some reason).
   • If you're trying to view the history before 01-01-2018, you'll need to use the command FULLHIST instead of HISTORY.
3. Additional Notes
   • As of February 2021, valid routes are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, X26*, 27, 29, X29*, 30, 31, X31*, 33, X33*, 34, 35, 36, 37, X37*, 38, 41, 42, 43, 44, X44, 45*, 47, 47B, 48, 49, 100, 200, 300, 400, X5, X7, 104, 106, 113, 124, 139, 140, X18, X27, X28, 43, 275, 276, 280, 281, N3, N11, N16, N22, N25, N26, N28, N30, N31, N37, N43, N44, N113. *Indicates a route which is currently suspended. List of routes taken from the Bus & Tram App.
   • If there are currently no vehicles being used on a route but there have been earlier in the day, you will only see the "Vehicles that have also been used on the route during the day" section.
   • If there are currently no vehicles being used on a route and there have been none all day, then you will see "This is a valid route, but no vehicles have been recorded on it today".
   • You can only view one route at a time.

C. Find Vehicles

1. Type in the operator code followed by a valid fleet number to see information about that vehicle. For example, LRT 1064, LCY 575 or ECB 20005.
   • View attachment 89852
   • The registration number can also be used instead of the fleetnumber (but I find it easier just remembering fleetnumbers).
   • A range of vehicles can also be requested by entering two fleetnumbers separated with a hyphen. For example LRT 301-350 returns all the vehicles with fleetnumbers between 301 and 350.
   • View attachment 89853
   • If the list contains a fleetnumber which doesn't exist then that number/row of data is simply ommitted from the results (e.g. if you enter LRT 300-350 you will get the same results as above as there is no vehicle with fleetnumber 300).
   • As seen above, if a vehicle is currently not in service then you can see when it was last in service.
2. Additional notes
   • Withdrawn vehicles are sometimes not removed from the system for some time, and the "last seen" date will just be some time far in the past.
   • The fleetnumbers are generally allocated as follows:
     • <199 - single deck vehicles
     • >100 - double deck vehicles:
       • vehicles numbered 551-599 are hybrids
       • others are plain diesel.
   • Clicking a registration plate of a vehicle which is currently in service will show a list of the next locations it is due to pass/stop at, and the estimated time it will do so.
   • Clicking a registration plate of a vehicle which is currently NOT in service will show you the history of that vehicle.
   • If a vehicle has special branding then this is shown as a letter immediately following the fleetnumber. For example the Zoo branded B5s show as follows:
   • View attachment 89855

D: Rare

1. Entering Rare will display a list of vehicles currently on routes which they have not worked for the previous two months. For example:
2. View attachment 89856

E: TL;DR (short version)

1. Go to Lothian Vehicle Finder (lvf.io) site. If the big text in bold says "Lothian Vehicle Finder", go to step 2. Otherwise, enter MODE LRT.
2. To see what vehicles are being used on a route, enter the route number.
3. To see what a route a specific vehicle is currently operating, you need to know which subsidiary it operates under. If it's Lothian [City] enter LRT then the registration plate or fleetnumber. If it's East Coast Buses enter ECB then the reg/number; if it's Lothian Country then enter LCY then the reg/number.
   • To see a range of vehicles enter e.g. LRT 1-50.
4. To see vehicles which are operating away from their usual routes, enter Rare.

I've probably forgotten some stuff or mistyped somewhere, I'll edit this if I spot any mistakes or if anyone tells me. If at least one person finds this at least slightly helpful then I've done a good job

Thank you, i struggled to use this website before this is really helpful, thanks again .

 

[Lothianbus703]

I don't think any of the B9TLS are withdrawn, I think they are either bring transferred (very unlikely) or just are being stored temporarily as they aren't in use much now the evoras are here and 7900s are being used on other routes.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I don't think any of the B9TLS are withdrawn, I think they are either bring transferred (very unlikely) or just are being stored temporarily as they aren't in use much now the evoras are here and 7900s are being used on other routes.

7900s don't seem to be getting used all that much. Central has 15, Marine has ~15 and Longstone has 20. Seems just to be rotating them on a daily basis.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I don't think any of the B9TLS are withdrawn, I think they are either bring transferred (very unlikely) or just are being stored temporarily as they aren't in use much now the evoras are here and 7900s are being used on other routes.

826, 827, 828 and 830 all seem to be in use with Lothian Country just now on various services, according to LVF.

 

[Driver362]

I think maybe it's something @GusB could help define if they were agreeable. I've often thought it would be helpful to split this thread into one for the Lothian network/services and a separate one for technical info on screws or bolts. The latter could be a 'thread for nuts', if you like.....
But seriously, vehicle specs, fleet changes, livery etc might deserve an area of their own, maybe for operators across south east Scotland if just Lothian is too narrow. I believe there's one covering fleet changes of Stagecoach in Fife already.
Having said that, you'll still receive flak from other members about frequently asking similar or identical questions. I'm sure their comments are well-intentioned even if expressed a little clumsily.

I would tend to agree. There are certain topics bore me, but I read it and move on. I myself I'm more into tech specs of the actual bus's operating the route, rather than the route itself.

 

[Graham Alexand]

826, 827, 828 and 830 all seem to be in use with Lothian Country just now on various services, according to LVF.

This is the same for Bustimes.org as well.

 

[Bus9120UK]

This is the same for Bustimes.org as well.

829 also appears in the Livingston Depot. Could be a possible trial like the the 7900 a few months ago?

 

[Graeme Duncan]

I am assuming the new allocation of 7900s will be
1-15 Central
16-35 Longstone
36-50 Marine.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I am assuming the new allocation of 7900s will be
1-15 Central
16-35 Longstone
36-50 Marine.

36 and 37 are still at Longstone so I'd think it's 38-50 at Marine.

 

[OmniCity999]

829 also appears in the Livingston Depot. Could be a possible trial like the the 7900 a few months ago?

Trial for what? Lothian Country already have B9's, both long and short wheelbase. They have the same type as 829 for example.

I believe this is for engineering cover.

 

[Bus9120UK]

(Not My Photo)
Here is a picture of the Gemini's parked in the car park. I notice a few have minor damage at the rear from hitting the pavement / grass.

 

[OmniCity999]

(Not My Photo)
Here is a picture of the Gemini's parked in the car park. I notice a few have minor damage at the rear from hitting the pavement / grass.View attachment 89910

Only one has been left accidentally damaged. Any that have been damaged are either in the process of repair or have been repaired. They need to be stored in service ready condition just in case.

It's also only some of the early B9's that are in this storage condition, bar one or two.

 

[ScotRail158725]

(Not My Photo)
Here is a picture of the Gemini's parked in the car park. I notice a few have minor damage at the rear from hitting the pavement / grass.View attachment 89910

those 4 at the left had just arrived from Seafield last night when i was down

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I see 1126-1130 have started to return to service at Central.

As for 1131-1135 I’m guessing they will remain stored OOU just now, I get why they’ve not been moved to City ops for now tho (if they were to remain in Airlink livery that is), although we have seen 431-437 do something similar (admittedly these are in a FOTF livery design).

I think for now there’s more incentive to use the 7900’s etc where possible (due to the things that have been discussed previously).

 

[computerSaysNo]

I think for now there’s more incentive to use the 7900’s etc where possible (due to the things that have been discussed previously).

Do the 7900s use the same hybrid system and parts to the B5LHs? If so then some of the 7900s could go to Lothian Country to replace the current B7RLEs (as the B7RLEs don't have battery problems if they're stored). Lothian Country already have some B5LHs so if they use similar parts then transferring some 7900s could be ideal, just to keep them in service. I can't imagine the local West Lothian routes are busy enough at the moment that all the capacity of a B7RLE is needed.
If they use completely different parts though then it's probably not economical to transfer them as they'd just end up as a micro-fleet.

 

[OmniCity999]

Do the 7900s use the same hybrid system and parts to the B5LHs? If so then some of the 7900s could go to Lothian Country to replace the current B7RLEs (as the B7RLEs don't have battery problems if they're stored). Lothian Country already have some B5LHs so if they use similar parts then transferring some 7900s could be ideal, just to keep them in service. I can't imagine the local West Lothian routes are busy enough at the moment that all the capacity of a B7RLE is needed.
If they use completely different parts though then it's probably not economical to transfer them as they'd just end up as a micro-fleet.

The 7900's share enough common components with the B5LH to not warrant two separate maintenance courses.

Just bodywork and battery location etc. its all still there, just elsewhere.

 

[Lothianbus703]

When do you guys predict that the past one will be withdrawn and what one do you think?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Do the 7900s use the same hybrid system and parts to the B5LHs? If so then some of the 7900s could go to Lothian Country to replace the current B7RLEs (as the B7RLEs don't have battery problems if they're stored). Lothian Country already have some B5LHs so if they use similar parts then transferring some 7900s could be ideal, just to keep them in service. I can't imagine the local West Lothian routes are busy enough at the moment that all the capacity of a B7RLE is needed.
If they use completely different parts though then it's probably not economical to transfer them as they'd just end up as a micro-fleet.

Well there’s certainly benefits to having some of the 7900’s running in WL rather than Edinburgh. I can’t see a permanent transfer happening though as all of them were refurbished just a few years back and it becomes a case of repainting buses to then repaint the buses that are replaced.



If 841-843 do get withdrawn in the next year or so (which may happen and are realistically the only withdrawals possible here unless something drastic was to change) it will be interesting to see if anything at all was to move out to WL to replace those 3. 926 and 927 would be a possibility but it depends where the fleet is needed by then and they themselves probably aren’t that far from withdrawal.

For example I wonder how many buses LC have spare every day, probably more atmo to allow for the deep cleaning needed plus the usual spares and then the maintenance ones. If that’s considerably higher (say over 10 - which I doubt it is) then 841-843 would probably go without a replacement or an expansion could be looked at, the former seems more likely to me.

 

[OmniCity999]

When do you guys predict that the past one will be withdrawn and what one do you think?

Anytime between August 2022 - August 2023 i reckon we'll see numbers dropping in great numbers. Sales that is, i can see B9's going in and out of storage for a while.