Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The 217 was registered away back in 2019/20 Festive period oddly broken into two but I think that is due to it being merged with the 275 (Gogar to Livingston portion which was essentially the full 275 route at the time minus Edinburgh Park and The Gyle Centre, I also think this was to incorporate Pumpherston and Uphall Station in the festive bus network) then between Livingston and Fauldhouse it was the same X17 route as well as the Edinburgh to Gogar part.

This was the registered 217 between Edinburgh and Livingston (Link Below).

PM0002883/17 – bustimes.org

This was the registered 217 Between Livingston and Fauldhouse (Link Below).

PM0002883/12 – bustimes.org

Then again it could have been a last minute thing and that may be why the 231 wasn't registered.

I sort of hope that Lothian don't get the 40/X40 and 231 because they would be taking away business from smaller companies but money would come first though.

It wasn’t oddly broke into two. Routes over a certain length have to be split as per Traffic Commissioner requirements.

The ECB X7 was also split (Edinburgh to Dunbar High street, then Dunbar High Street to Spott Road ASDA) if you look at the registration. This one was really annoying as the extension is only about 5 mins but rules are rules. Given the length of the X7 the rule must be around 25-30 miles.

The X17 when it went all the way to Fauldhouse was split at Livingston Centre (can’t remember if it was split when it initially stopped at Loganlea), that’s why the ‘connections are guaranteed and passengers may remain on the bus’ message was there. Those are the only two Lothian family routes I remember having the message, but there’s probably been/are others.

Other companies routes that are split are likely to include but not limited to are the majority of the Fife express coaches that Stagecoach run, Borders Buses services from Edinburgh, then Citylink and Megabus as well. It’s standard practice and I believe it’s been like that a while.

If I had my own bus company and started a route from Regent Road to Edinburgh Airport then that wouldn’t be subject to being split, a route from say Regent Road to Stirling via all the little towns/villages would need to be though.

 

[Graham Alexand]

It wasn’t oddly broke into two. Routes over a certain length have to be split as per Traffic Commissioner requirements.

The ECB X7 was also split (Edinburgh to Dunbar High street, then Dunbar High Street to Spott Road ASDA) if you look at the registration. This one was really annoying as the extension is only about 5 mins but rules are rules. Given the length of the X7 the rule must be around 25-30 miles.

The X17 when it went all the way to Fauldhouse was split at Livingston Centre (can’t remember if it was split when it initially stopped at Loganlea), that’s why the ‘connections are guaranteed and passengers may remain on the bus’ message was there. Those are the only two Lothian family routes I remember having the message, but there’s probably been/are others.

Other companies routes that are split are likely to include but not limited to are the majority of the Fife express coaches that Stagecoach run, Borders Buses services from Edinburgh, then Citylink and Megabus as well. It’s standard practice and I believe it’s been like that a while.

If I had my own bus company and started a route from Regent Road to Edinburgh Airport then that wouldn’t be subject to being split, a route from say Regent Road to Stirling via all the little towns/villages would need to be though.

By oddly I was referring to the 217 having 2 separate registrations not the merging of routes.

Although this is an old First bus service I'm just using it as an example, like old service 22/22A when it operated between Queensferry and Harthill, how the destination said between Edinburgh and Pumpherston/ Livingston (I say Pumpherston because a often the display was changed here) Livingston onto Harthill would this be considered a split route?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

By oddly I was referring to the 217 having 2 separate registrations not the merging of routes.

Although this is an old First bus service I'm just using it as an example, like old service 22/22A when it operated between Queensferry and Harthill, how the destination said between Edinburgh and Pumpherston/ Livingston (I say Pumpherston because a often the display was changed here) Livingston onto Harthill would this be considered a split route?

The 217 was split because it legally has to be, as I implied in my previous post...

The 22A question depends on what the registration says, that is what you go with. I don’t think it’s on topic though for this thread.

 

[kez19]

Apologies here as I am not a regular in this thread but I noticed a few pics on flickr of a few of their buses at Moffat and Williamson, I was reading it saying they were on loan to Moffat and Williamson but contracted to Stagecoach East Scotland (Dunfermline) for First Scotland East!

question: once contract is finished are these buses Moffats or go back to Lothian? also an outsider here but who is running this contract - is it Moffat/Stagecoach or First?

credit to photographers

SN56 AEU

Moffat & Williamson On Loan To Stagecoach In Fife Sorry Not In Service Volvo Wright Eclipse Gemini St Leonards Place Dunfermline

www.flickr.com

SN56 ACF

Moffat & Williamson On Loan To Stagecoach In Fife Sorry Not In Service Volvo Wright Eclipse Gemini St Leonards Place Dunfermline

www.flickr.com

 

[CN04NRJ]

Apologies here as I am not a regular in this thread but I noticed a few pics on flickr of a few of their buses at Moffat and Williamson, I was reading it saying they were on loan to Moffat and Williamson but contracted to Stagecoach East Scotland (Dunfermline) for First Scotland East!

question: once contract is finished are these buses Moffats or go back to Lothian? also an outsider here but who is running this contract - is it Moffat/Stagecoach or First?

credit to photographers

SN56 AEU

Moffat & Williamson On Loan To Stagecoach In Fife Sorry Not In Service Volvo Wright Eclipse Gemini St Leonards Place Dunfermline

www.flickr.com

SN56 ACF

Moffat & Williamson On Loan To Stagecoach In Fife Sorry Not In Service Volvo Wright Eclipse Gemini St Leonards Place Dunfermline

www.flickr.com

I think they're now owned by Moffat & Williamson?

 

[kez19]

I think they're now owned by Moffat & Williamson?

Oh ok - again I might be a bit off topic, i'll keep it short as not to deflect from the main talk in this thread but would Moffats use these buses on routes or just contracts like schools?

 

[GusB]

The topic of "splitting" routes has been discussed previously in the forum and across various threads. Please let's not get bogged down into the detail of the practice in this thread. Thanks

*EDIT* Put the word "split" into the search box and choose "this forum" from the drop-down list - it will bring up a list of threads and won't take long to find previous discussions.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Oh ok - again I might be a bit off topic, i'll keep it short as not to deflect from the main talk in this thread but would Moffats use these buses on routes or just contracts like schools?

Mostly just schools, but they do have a few service runs in Glenrothes/Leven that they are used on in between school runs. It's usually ex-London 06 reg ones in all over cream used on those routes.

 

[kez19]

Mostly just schools, but they do have a few service runs in Glenrothes/Leven that they are used on in between school runs. It's usually ex-London 06 reg ones in all over cream used on those routes.

Thanks Romeo for info, I’ll not deflect any further in this thread but good to know, just curious as they were Lothian buses.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Apologies here as I am not a regular in this thread but I noticed a few pics on flickr of a few of their buses at Moffat and Williamson, I was reading it saying they were on loan to Moffat and Williamson but contracted to Stagecoach East Scotland (Dunfermline) for First Scotland East!

question: once contract is finished are these buses Moffats or go back to Lothian? also an outsider here but who is running this contract - is it Moffat/Stagecoach or First?

credit to photographers

SN56 AEU

Moffat & Williamson On Loan To Stagecoach In Fife Sorry Not In Service Volvo Wright Eclipse Gemini St Leonards Place Dunfermline

www.flickr.com

SN56 ACF

Moffat & Williamson On Loan To Stagecoach In Fife Sorry Not In Service Volvo Wright Eclipse Gemini St Leonards Place Dunfermline

www.flickr.com

Ex Lothian 768/771/775/778 and all 7 ECB ones are owned by Moffat & Williamson however they are on lease to Stagecoach East Scotland who are covering school services operated by First Midland Bluebird due to the covid outbreak at their larbert depot.
Lothian don’t own any B7TLs anymore

 

[kez19]

Ex Lothian 768/771/775/778 and all 7 ECB ones are owned by Moffat & Williamson however they are on lease to Stagecoach East Scotland who are covering school services operated by First Midland Bluebird due to the covid outbreak at their larbert depot.
Lothian don’t own any B7TLs anymore

Thank you didn’t realise that.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Is it true 572 (Dennis Trident) is currently being stored in Longstone? According to two people they have seen it going there, but I am not sure if this is actually true.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Is it true 572 (Dennis Trident) is currently being stored in Longstone? According to two people they have seen it going there, but I am not sure if this is actually true.

Its not uncommon for the heritage fleet to stop off at Longstone or Marine

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Is it true 572 (Dennis Trident) is currently being stored in Longstone? According to two people they have seen it going there, but I am not sure if this is actually true.

x572 along with the other Lothian directly owned preserved buses x285 and x322 were normally kept at Longstone along with vehicles of the Lothian Bus Consortium (which had been previously stored at Lathalmond). I’ve seen some of them at Marine from time to time though.

Rumours have been going around about them being sold off and that may still happen, although if that was the plan I’d probably have expected something by now. A return for the full fleet to Lathalmond seems impossible given how long the waiting list is (last I heard it was 20+ vehicles) and I’ve been waiting for about 3 years now and still well at the back.

It seemed a great idea for them to be kept in Edinburgh but in hindsight perhaps it wasn’t the most practical decision, the coach hire side of things never really got off the ground and I think that was the issue. If they are to be sold at any point all of them will find buyers with relative ease as there’s a good market for them.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Is it true 572 (Dennis Trident) is currently being stored in Longstone? According to two people they have seen it going there, but I am not sure if this is actually true.

Yes.

Don't know why every time when any of the heritage fleet is spotted anywhere (be it at a garage or on trade plates being moved about) people start declaring they're all being sold/scrapped just because 112/701 were disposed of as modern, valuable vehicles.

It's been stated before several times in the last few months on this forum alone that when X vehicle of the heritage fleet it's at Longstone its for routine maintenance/MOT. The next time another vehicle is seen there the question gets asked again is this/has this been sold?

 

[computerSaysNo]

Hi all, is anyone able to verify that I've got the correct routes matched up to the correct intermediate boards and that there's none I've missed? Thanks in advance.

Boards were taken from the information on this page (whatdotheyknow)

 

[CN04NRJ]

Hi all, is anyone able to verify that I've got the correct routes matched up to the correct intermediate boards and that there's none I've missed? Thanks in advance.

Boards were taken from the information on this page (whatdotheyknow)

View attachment 91504

Looks mostly accurate to me, as does the rest of full file. The Hanover PDF is obviously out of date though.

 

[alexf380]

That looks like the 2003 version of the blind (photos on Flickr somewhere, I'll try dig them out) and so...

-Slateford, Princes St, Meadowbank is just the 4, not the 34 (which has its own blind later down the list)
-Leith Walk, Bridges, Newington is just the 7.
-Canonmills, St Andrew Square, Newington is the old 8. The blind was changed when the 8 was rerouted away from St Andrew Square but I can't remember what it is now.
-Murrayfield, Princes St, Leith walk is/was the 12.
-Dean, West End, Bellevue was the old 13.
-Tollcross, Princes St, Portobello was the 15 when it went out to Tranent
-Tollcross, Princes St, Canonmills was the 17.
-Fountainbridge, Slateford, Longstone was the 28's blind. The route was withdrawn not long after the blind was written and I guess it does actually fit the 34 fairly well.
-Mound, Tollcross, Juniper Green was for the 45. Remember that was only extended to QMU in the last 10 years or so, it used to turn at St Andrew Sq.
-Saughton, Princes St, Bridges is only the 30
-Drum Brae, Muihouse, Leith, Portobello was for the 32, it used to run right out to the Royal Infirmary back in the day!
-WGH, mound, Cameron Toll was the 42 when it ran up to Silverknowes via the current 24 route.

Apart from that, yeah its spot on

 

[CN04NRJ]

Also on the Finlaysmith site trackers 601-658 have appeared off the coast of Africa, make of that what you will.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Looks mostly accurate to me, as does the rest of full file.

Thanks.

The Hanover PDF is obviously out of date though.

If it was up to me though, all the buses would (still) have (digital) intermediate boards in full colour; I liked it when they could display the "Route Diverted" and "Limited Stop" etc. with the coloured backgrounds

That looks like the 2003 version of the blind (photos on Flickr somewhere, I'll try dig them out) and so...

-Slateford, Princes St, Meadowbank is just the 4, not the 34 (which has its own blind later down the list)
-Leith Walk, Bridges, Newington is just the 7.
-Canonmills, St Andrew Square, Newington is the old 8. The blind was changed when the 8 was rerouted away from St Andrew Square but I can't remember what it is now.
-Murrayfield, Princes St, Leith walk is/was the 12.
-Dean, West End, Bellevue was the old 13.
-Tollcross, Princes St, Portobello was the 15 when it went out to Tranent
-Tollcross, Princes St, Canonmills was the 17.
-Fountainbridge, Slateford, Longstone was the 28's blind. The route was withdrawn not long after the blind was written and I guess it does actually fit the 34 fairly well.
-Mound, Tollcross, Juniper Green was for the 45. Remember that was only extended to QMU in the last 10 years or so, it used to turn at St Andrew Sq.
-Saughton, Princes St, Bridges is only the 30
-Drum Brae, Muihouse, Leith, Portobello was for the 32, it used to run right out to the Royal Infirmary back in the day!
-WGH, mound, Cameron Toll was the 42 when it ran up to Silverknowes via the current 24 route.

Apart from that, yeah its spot on

Ah, thanks, adjusted now. I've been meaning to ask, did the 8 ever run via Nicolson Square? As the stop there has the number 8 on the sign.
What were the terminus points of the 17 and 28?

 

[alexf380]

Thanks.

If it was up to me though, all the buses would (still) have (digital) intermediate boards in full colour; I liked it when they could display the "Route Diverted" and "Limited Stop" etc. with the coloured backgrounds

Ah, thanks, adjusted now. I've been meaning to ask, did the 8 ever run via Nicolson Square? As the stop there has the number 8 on the sign.
What were the terminus points of the 17 and 28?

Some evening journeys on the 8 only run as far as "Surgeons' Hall" so they turn at Nicolson Square to head back to Muirhouse.
The 17 was Craighouse (the old university building off Morningside drive) to Drylaw via Morningside, Princes St, Canonmills and Waterfront Avenue.
The 28 was much before my time (I was 7 in 2003) but I think it was St Andrew Square to clovenstone.

 

[ScotRail158725]

.
The 28 was much before my time (I was 7 in 2003) but I think it was St Andrew Square to clovenstone.

I believe it used to go up to Muirhouse/Granton or something after St Andrew Square but the 28 was before my time aswell (i was 0 in 2003)

 

[OmniCity999]

Also on the Finlaysmith site trackers 601-658 have appeared off the coast of Africa, make of that what you will.

I'm led to believe we're going back to numbering the Lothian way. As opposed to the "other" way

 

[Bus9120UK]

Also on the Finlaysmith site trackers 601-658 have appeared off the coast of Africa, make of that what you will.

Yeah I noticed that, I wonder if this is so the numbers can get ready for the new batch coming soon

 

[cammyeaston]

Can you clarify what is meant be the Lothian way vs other way?

I can only assume that He Who Shall Not Be Named brought in the four digit fleet numbers and depot codes and that they are to be replaced with no codes and traditional reusing of up to 3 digits?

 

[scosutsut]

He Who Shall Not Be Named

Ooh, can we go with 'Lord Halldemort?' pleeeeeeaaaaassse

 

[OmniCity999]

Can you clarify what is meant be the Lothian way vs other way?

I can only assume that He Who Shall Not Be Named brought in the four digit fleet numbers and depot codes and that they are to be replaced with no codes and traditional reusing of up to 3 digits?

The Lothian way is three digit fleet codes. Im led to believe we're going back to this - i dont think current fleet will be renumbered, though.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I hope Lothian can bring back some of these long abandoned service numbers back, 9,17,28,32

 

[OmniCity999]

I hope Lothian can bring back some of these long abandoned service numbers back, 9,17,28,32

extra services would be required for this

 

[GusB]

Ooh, can we go with 'Lord Halldemort?' pleeeeeeaaaaassse

Oh dear! Rather than imposing a ban for that - Avada Kedavra!