• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Class 345 progress

Status
Not open for further replies.

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,754
The alternative of about 20 trains (each way) needing to be coupled to barrier wagons, then shuttling back and forth on changeover date seems much harder. Even if it is easiest for irregular stock transfers.
Fortunately, the locomotives couple directly to the 345s without barrier wagons. There are only 18 7-car 345s out east at the moment - 345003/5-17/22/42/56/64. The 7-cars have to go via the North London Line in any case.

I don’t believe there is a software version that allows both running on central core section and under National Train Control (AWS/TPWS) or ETCS
Looking at returns to Old Oak Depot yesterday on TrackIt, I was surprised to note that the unit on evening test trips to Heathrow last night was reported as '5I25' (see below), suggesting 345025, which has previously been discussed as a 'tunnel' unit. The '5Ixx' entries tend to be fairly reliable although occasionally there is a mistake made. If it was 345025 running to Heathrow last night, maybe it is testing a software version that does enable running on both. Clearly I could just be drawing the wrong conclusions or it could be a miskey.

1614200036386.png

345039/052 now showing on the system as 9 car sets, I'm told.
Finally, and also made up from speculating on observations from Old Oak Depot movements, and the suggestion that a set of spare cars gets sent from Worksop to Old Oak Depot every week, are 345051 and 345020 perhaps the next two conversions to 9-car completed? Again, I could easily be drawing the wrong conclusions but 345039 and 345052 made the same moves on 10 February and 11 February as those shown for 345051 and 345020 more recently.
1614200199558.png
1614200297301.png

I don't think 345039 or 345052 have been out in passenger service yet following their conversion reported upthread, unlike 345047 and 345057 which appear to be part of the operational pool of units on passenger services making 20 units available for passenger service out west.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Peter Sarf

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
5,673
Location
Croydon
Fortunately, the locomotives couple directly to the 345s without barrier wagons. There are only 18 7-car 345s out east at the moment - 345003/5-17/22/42/56/64. The 7-cars have to go via the North London Line in any case.


Looking at returns to Old Oak Depot yesterday on TrackIt, I was surprised to note that the unit on evening test trips to Heathrow last night was reported as '5I25' (see below), suggesting 345025, which has previously been discussed as a 'tunnel' unit. The '5Ixx' entries tend to be fairly reliable although occasionally there is a mistake made. If it was 345025 running to Heathrow last night, maybe it is testing a software version that does enable running on both. Clearly I could just be drawing the wrong conclusions or it could be a miskey.

View attachment 91389


Finally, and also made up from speculating on observations from Old Oak Depot movements, and the suggestion that a set of spare cars gets sent from Worksop to Old Oak Depot every week, are 345051 and 345020 perhaps the next two conversions to 9-car completed? Again, I could easily be drawing the wrong conclusions but 345039 and 345052 made the same moves on 10 February and 11 February as those shown for 345051 and 345020 more recently.
View attachment 91390
View attachment 91391

I don't think 345039 or 345052 have been out in passenger service yet following their conversion reported upthread, unlike 345047 and 345057 which appear to be part of the operational pool of units on passenger services making 20 units available for passenger service out west.
A question occurs to me. Are the 9-car units getting their correct/intended extra two coaches ?. I mean are the number series being kept intact. I think only one unit has been mixed up for about a year.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,754
A question occurs to me. Are the 9-car units getting their correct/intended extra two coaches ?. I mean are the number series being kept intact. I think only one unit has been mixed up for about a year.
The only one which has ever been reported mixed up is 345001 with the two extra coaches from 345022 and that was reported to be associated with the need to allow 9-car testing sooner than would otherwise have been possible - ie it has been that way for a long time.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,264
A question occurs to me. Are the 9-car units getting their correct/intended extra two coaches ?. I mean are the number series being kept intact. I think only one unit has been mixed up for about a year.
Yes they are being correctly formed with last two digits of the vehicle number matching the set number.
 

Peter Sarf

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
5,673
Location
Croydon
The only one which has ever been reported mixed up is 345001 with the two extra coaches from 345022 and that was reported to be associated with the need to allow 9-car testing sooner than would otherwise have been possible - ie it has been that way for a long time.
Thanks. That is the one I vaguely recall. It is still the only exception then. I wonder if 345001 and 345022 will end up getting back their correct coaches eventually ?.
 
Last edited:

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,754
Based on information from the usual source, it appears that 345052 and 345051 may well have been in service yesterday on Reading / Heathrow workings, now being 9-car units.

1614849610460.png

I note that 345040 could well be the next 9-car conversion on the basis described for 345051 in message 3991 as it made the following movements on Monday.
1614849668078.png
 
Joined
30 Jul 2015
Messages
779
Am I right in thinking that this makes the current 9-car passenger fleet to be

345002,004,021,023,028,030,034,035,039,043,047,051,052,055,057,058,059,060,061,062,065,066,068,070 (with 040 to follow)
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,754
Am I right in thinking that this makes the current 9-car passenger fleet to be

345002,004,021,023,028,030,034,035,039,043,047,051,052,055,057,058,059,060,061,062,065,066,068,070 (with 040 to follow)
I don't think 345002 has been used for passenger workings. I think 345020 may also be "to follow".

All the others you listed 'observed' over the last few weeks although 345058 has always seemed to be a bit more 'rare' than the others.
 
Joined
30 Jul 2015
Messages
779
Heresay, as I didn't see it myself, but I was told 345002 was on Reading trains on Tuesday. It could have been a mis-identification though.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,754
Heresay, as I didn't see it myself, but I was told 345002 was on Reading trains on Tuesday. It could have been a mis-identification though.
345002 appears to have done 5G50-5G53 on Monday so I guess it is possible that it has joined the passenger units.

I wonder if there is a plan to try to get as many 9-car units as possible in traffic ready so that the 18 east-side 7-cars can be replaced quicker than would be possible if the 7-cars had to replace themselves.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,754
345049 is the next unit to make the move to berth 0142 outside Old Oak Depot.

1614945180920.png

I note that there is a complete block of London Paddington this Sunday out as far as Ealing Broadway (and Reading to Virginia Water is replaced by buses), although this appears to be work on the overhead wires, rather than Crossrail testing. 345s for Heathrow services stabled at Heathrow overnight on Saturday night.

Network Rail is upgrading the overhead electric wires near London Paddington to improve the reliability and performance of our train service.
To allow this work to take place, London Paddington station will be closed on Sunday 7 March, and trains will not run between Ealing Broadway and London Paddington.

Train services across our network will be impacted by this, and customers will not be able to travel directly into London on GWR services.

Heresay, as I didn't see it myself, but I was told 345002 was on Reading trains on Tuesday. It could have been a mis-identification though.
345002 appears to have done 5G50-5G53 on Monday so I guess it is possible that it has joined the passenger units.
345002 does appear to be in service - 'observed returning to Old Oak Depot as 5P14 having being swapped at Paddington after working 9P14 1904 Reading to London Paddington.

1614975727481.png
 
Last edited:

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,754
345049 appears to have been in service on Hayes shuttles today, which would appear to be its first time as a 9-car unit. 345052 appears to have been on the other Hayes diagram.

1615677746535.png

I haven't 'observed' any further newly extended units make passage out to signal berth 0142 since 345049 on 5 March.

Update 17 March

345044 is the next unit to make the move to signal berth 0142 which appears to be consistent with a first venture outside the depot on conversion to 9-car.

1616025267625.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I44' moving berth C412 to 0142 to C313 at Old Oak Depot around midday on 17 March.]
 
Last edited:

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,754
9-car update

345040 appears to have been in service today (Sunday 21 March), but has been substituted at Paddington after working 9P36 0936 Reading to London Paddington.

1616336701598.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I40' returning to berth C311 at Old Oak Depot around 11am on 17 March having worked 5Y36 empty stock from Paddington.]

Tracking back it will have entered service yesterday on 9R00 1713 London Paddington to Reading. It is the first time I have noticed this one in service as a 9-car.

Following 345044's conversion noted above, I think just 345029, 345038 and 345063 remain to appear as 9-cars from the 7-car units at Old Oak Depot, plus the 18 units (345003/05-17/22/42/56/64) at Ilford.

Crossrail testing

On a completely different matter, I wonder whether this implies that today's units on Crossrail live testing are 345002, 345027, 345031, 345041, 345053, 345054 and 345069. It would seem to fit (although I think berth Q0/514S is one of the Plumstead sidings so maybe it is only six units in use).

1616339181355.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcodes '5Y31', '5Y69', '9Y02', '9Y27', '9Y41', '9Y53' and '9Y54' at various berths on the Crossrail route 'Q0']

https://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackI...ains.aspx?TrainDescriber=Q0&AutoRefresh=False

EDIT: Looking at it again, I think '9Y02' earlier may actually have been 345037 as '9Y37' ended at Plumstead. It appears that 345053, 345031 and 345041 have returned to Old Oak Depot tonight and 345027. 345037, 345054 and 345069 are in the sidings at Plumstead.
 
Last edited:

TT-ONR-NRN

Established Member
Joined
30 Dec 2016
Messages
10,439
Location
Farnham
I have 001, 018, 019, 024-026, 031-033, 036, 041, 045, 046, 048, 050, 067, 069 down as not in passenger service yet, is this correct does anyone know? Thanks
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,754
I have 001, 018, 019, 024-026, 031-033, 036, 041, 045, 046, 048, 050, 067, 069 down as not in passenger service yet, is this correct does anyone know? Thanks
Yes, looks right to me

My reckoning is that:
003/005-017/020/022/029/038/042/056 have only operated in passenger service as 7-cars.
039/040/044/047/049/051/052/055/057/059/063/064 have operated in passenger service as both 7-car and 9-car
002/004/021/023/027/028/030/034/035/037/043/053/054/058/060-062/065/066/068/070 have only operated in passenger service as 9-cars

345044 appears to have been in service on the all-day Reading diagram that starts and ends at Old Oak Depot today. Potentially its first day in service as a 9-car.

1616632112742.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I44' returning to berth C311 at Old Oak Depot around midnight on 25 March having worked 5Y30 empty stock from Paddington.]
 

kevin_roche

Member
Joined
26 Feb 2019
Messages
930
I could not find a link posted to the latest copy of the Crossrail COS timetable planning rules for 2021 which were published in August last year.

Here it is in case anyone is interested. I think the items in Red are changes from the previous set which were for 2020.


I was interested to see the introduction of virtual stations in the tunnels.
 

Snow1964

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2019
Messages
6,143
Location
West Wiltshire
Thanks Jonathan. Are there any plans for any of these to enter service in the near future, do you know, or are all of these staying put until the opening of the core next year?

Last I heard was the plan was to changeover to 9car on Shenfield line in May.

I would assume most (all?) of the 17 units which haven’t seen passenger service yet would then enter service whilst the 7car units get lengthened. Don’t know if they will get rotated through the existing 9car workings ahead of the 7 to 9car changeover though
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,754
I would assume most (all?) of the 17 units which haven’t seen passenger service yet would then enter service whilst the 7car units get lengthened. Don’t know if they will get rotated through the existing 9car workings ahead of the 7 to 9car changeover though
From a purely observational point of view, I don't see how that is right.

Of those 17 units, 3 of them aren't in London, 1 is at Ilford and, as far as I can make out, hasn't been used outside the depot. Most of the others have been in the 'tunnel' fleet. Not sure what 026, 045 and 046 are used for.

The conversion of the west side 7-cars which is ongoing provides most of the units needed for east side 9-car operation. I don't see how it will be an overnight switch of 18 7-car units for 18 9-car units. There isn't enough siding space. At the same time, units are needed for live testing in the tunnels - the current fleet of fourteen units seems about right for that.
 
Last edited:

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,754
345063 appears to be the next unit to make the move to signal berth 0142 which, as noted previously, appears to be consistent with a first venture outside the depot on conversion to 9-car.
1617047257886.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I63' moving berth C412 to 0142 to C313 at Old Oak Depot around 9am on 29 March.]

In other matters, it appears that 345067 was out on some testing at the Paddington end (and not much further) on Sunday. 345027, 345037, 345054 and 345069 appear to still be at Plumstead from last weekend's testing having not been used this weekend.
1617047383555.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I67' cancelled at berth C311 having returned to Old Oak Depot around 1pm on 28 March having worked '3Y06'.]

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Update 1 April

Tonight's returns to Old Oak Depot appear to include 345026 for the first time, having worked the all-day Reading diagram. Assuming this isn't an April Fool, that leaves 16 units yet to work a passenger train.
1617233970166.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I26' cancelled at berth C313 having returned to Old Oak Depot around 0030 on 1 April having worked '5Y30' (and similarly '5I60' off '5Y29')]

There appears to be a unit swap from Old Oak Depot to Ilford today.
0959 Old Oak Depot to Ilford E.M.U.D. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04502/2021-04-01/detailed
1503 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04503/2021-04-01/detailed
 
Last edited:

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,754
There appears to be a unit swap from Old Oak Depot to Ilford today.
0959 Old Oak Depot to Ilford E.M.U.D. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04502/2021-04-01/detailed
1503 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04503/2021-04-01/detailed
The 345 move didn't happen. The locomotive, reported elsewhere as 37611, came across from Wembley as 0740 Wembley H.S. to Old Oak Depot https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R03742/2021-04-01/detailed and appears to be returning to Leicester as 1257 Old Oak Depot to Leicester L.I.P. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/14078/2021-04-01/detailed
 

samuelmorris

Established Member
Joined
18 Jul 2013
Messages
5,121
Location
Brentwood, Essex
056 failed en route to Liverpool Street, held things up for a while restricted to 5mph. Back on a 315 for the first time in a while as a result.

Curious to know what happened to it.
 

kevin_roche

Member
Joined
26 Feb 2019
Messages
930
The latest Crossrail status report from Mark Wild to the London Assembly Transport Committee has been posted on the TfL website. https://content.tfl.gov.uk/alison-moore-montly-update-15-march-2021.pdf

Points made about Class 345 trains and related signalling systems include the following paragraphs:

Trial Running is vital to unlocking the pathway to passenger service. It involves multiple trains operating in the central operating section to demonstrate that the railway is capable of reliably meeting the capacity and other requirements, whilst the final works to the stations are completed.

The initial phase of Trial Running will see a limited number of trains in operation on the central operating section to allow the infrastructure manager, Tfl to undertake a number of activities to achieve full readiness. The number of trains will gradually increase before further activities such as timetable operation, timetable demonstrations and integration testing can be undertaken.

There will also be four train and signalling software upgrades during Trial Running and time has been allocated in the Trial Running programme for each to be tested as appropriate and deployed.

Operational Readiness

The Public Performance Measure (PPM) reported in the period between 10 January – 6 February was 95.7%, with the Moving Annual Average trend continuing to improve and now at 95.8%, the highest since TfL Rail took over operations in 2015.

The nine-car Full-Length Units (FLU) introduced in December 2020 to the Reading route have seen the expected improvements in reliability during this latest period. The majority of the failures were software-related, predominantly within the on-train ETCS signalling system. The next reliability improving software, including improved ETCS performance, has been delivered and will be applied to the fleet during March 2021.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,264
345063 is out today as a 9 car on Paddington-Reading test/commissioning runs.

Other west side units:
Reading: 345039/055/057/059/060
Heathrow: 345023/044/070
Hayes shuttles: 345026/028
 
Last edited:

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
18,754
Testing underway on the relief line between Paddington (platform 12) and Langley Reception Sidings all day today using a single unit. Some of the trips are at very slow speed (eg 90 minutes to cover 16 miles albeit with 15 minutes at Hayes & Harlington and 20 minutes at West Ealing sidings). I assume this is ETCS testing.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...4/0200-2100?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=ZZ
1617530321446.png
[Screenshot from RTT shows a scheduled series of four workings between Paddington and Langley Reception sidings today (4 April) and movements from and to Old Oak Depot]


A second unit worked from Paddington to Slough overnight which appears (from the usual source) to have been 345031. I assume this testing requires units set with specific software rather than what is currently installed on the passenger units.
1617529343897.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I31' cancelled at berth C311 having returned to Old Oak Depot around 0550 on 4 April]

All of the passenger services are on the main line today with the consequential result that the stopping trains from Paddington to Hayes & Harlington are running empty to Maidenhead to reverse. The Heathrow branch is shut all day.

Nothing moving in the tunnel this weekend - the last moves appears to have been last Sunday (28 March) at the Paddington end.
https://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackI...&Berth=012A&AutoRefresh=False&HideEmpty=False
[Not possible to copy this text which lists the most recent Train Describer movements on area 'Q0']

It appears that 345033 was the unit involved in today's testing.
1617564536861.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I33' cancelled at berth C313 having returned to Old Oak Depot around 1915 on 4 April]
 
Last edited:

JN114

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2005
Messages
3,354
It is ETCS testing/validation on the relief lines installation between Ealing Broadway and West Drayton.

As I understand it, they can’t run the system in the test configuration and run passenger trains on the Airport Branch simultaneously; so Heathrow services are suspended to allow the testing to take place. I expect there’ll be another Sunday block at some point to do the same for the Main Lines.
 

kevin_roche

Member
Joined
26 Feb 2019
Messages
930
It is ETCS testing/validation on the relief lines installation between Ealing Broadway and West Drayton.

As I understand it, they can’t run the system in the test configuration and run passenger trains on the Airport Branch simultaneously; so Heathrow services are suspended to allow the testing to take place. I expect there’ll be another Sunday block at some point to do the same for the Main Lines.
Makes perfect sense. I was wondering how they were going to test ETCS with the Heathrow trains running.

Nothing moving in the tunnel this weekend - the last moves appears to have been last Sunday (28 March) at the Paddington end.
I don't expect there will be much running in the tunnels now until Trial Running begins.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top