Obligations to join countywide ticketing schemes

[bluenoxid]

Is there any obligation on a bus operator providing a commercial route/service to sign up to county/area wide ticketing schemes? Is there any “firm” guidance?

I am aware that they are usually run as a “separate” organisation to the local authority transport body with governance including the local authority and bus/rail operators

Example schemes include System one in Manchester and Metrocard in West Yorkshire

I am aware that tendered services can be pushed into it by including it in the tender.

The reason for the question is the government announcement today and the apparent failure of the Transport for the North ticketing system.

Thank you

 

[carlberry]

What is the 'Transport for the North ticketing system'?

In my local area the operators agreed a joint ticketing system (Avon Rider) because the local authorities weren't interested. Since it's introduction the local authorities have done there best to sabotage it by not including it as a tender requirement.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, they aren't obliged to join. Indeed, making them do so would be a competition law issue.

What is the 'Transport for the North ticketing system'?

A plan for touch-in touch-out contactless across the north on all modes.

 

[Man of Kent]

What is the 'Transport for the North ticketing system'?

A £150m attempt to introduce an all-singing, all-dancing touch-in touch-out integrated ticketing system for all public transport. It had all the inflexibility of the rail ticketing infrastructure (12 weeks notice required to make a change, max 3 changes per year), totally ignored market pricing (especially fast v slow trains) and could not cope with any pricing encompassing more than one person (e.g. accompanied child discount, family ticket, two together). I'm not entirely certain, but if it followed existing principles for RDG (the body that runs the rail system) bus operators would have had to wait for several days/weeks before receiving any revenue. Bus operators surprisingly unenthusiastic...

It has missed several dates for a phased introduction, and has had next year's funding allocation by government cut, as discussed in this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/dft-scraps-funding-for-norths-oyster-card.214219/#post-5019278

There's also more on the Transport for the North website

https://transportforthenorth.com/ist/

https://transportforthenorth.com/press-release/global-innovation-competition-launched-to-inform-the-future-of-public-transport-ticketing-and-smart-travel/

 

[route101]

McGill's don't partake in the daytripper SPT ticket. Though they accept the SPT Zonecard which is the season version.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

What is the 'Transport for the North ticketing system'?

In my local area the operators agreed a joint ticketing system (Avon Rider) because the local authorities weren't interested. Since it's introduction the local authorities have done there best to sabotage it by not including it as a tender requirement.

Meanwhile in Wiltshire the council there actually promotes the AvonRider and Wiltshire DayRover tickets in publicity such as the recent 270/271/272/273 Bath to Melksham timetable.

 

[ChrisC]

This type of ticket is really useful. I’ve used them quite often when I have been on holiday in areas of the country where they are available. Some I have used have included the Avon Rider, Devon Day, Essex Saver and Discovery Ticket which covers a large area of South East England. Also used some in more urban areas including Manchester, West Yorkshire, West Midlands and Tyneside.

I would use buses far more regularly in my home area if such a ticket existed in Nottinghamshire. Excluding the City of Nottingham the county is very much divided into two halves with Trent Barton in the south and Stagecoach in the north. If, like me, you live in the centre of the county with a mixture of both companies operating routes it is very expensive if a journey involves both companies. I just end up using my car instead.

For example, last week I had to take my car for a service and MOT and that was a distance of about 10 miles but meant using both Trent Barton and Stagecoach to complete the journey. It was going to cost me approx £14 to do the return journey and so I went for a 3 hour walk whilst they had my car instead of going home.

 

[Dai Corner]

In south east Wales all (or virtually all) the bus operators - multinationals, municipals and independents - participate in the Network Rider. Transport for Wales, the Welsh Government owned train operator, doesn't but does offer a ticket covering its Valleys network plus Stagecoach buses.

 

[Kevpbus]

No, they aren't obliged to join. Indeed, making them do so would be a competition law issue.



A plan for touch-in touch-out contactless across the north on all modes.

If there is an Enhanced Partnership in place, a multi-operator ticketing scheme can be made compulsory for any operator wishing to use the facilities included in that partnership. So with EPs or franchising effectively becoming a requirement for continued funding under the new Bus Strategy, yes they will become more commonplace and more will become compulsory to join.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

No, they aren't obliged to join. Indeed, making them do so would be a competition law issue.

Which begs the question, is that really what competition laws were intended to do? Essentially make regulation near enough impossible?

That just reinforces my position that the structure of the bus industry post-deregulation is not fit for purpose. The free-market "tail" should not be wagging the "public service" dog.

 

[paul1609]

Is there any obligation on a bus operator providing a commercial route/service to sign up to county/area wide ticketing schemes? Is there any “firm” guidance?

I am aware that they are usually run as a “separate” organisation to the local authority transport body with governance including the local authority and bus/rail operators

Example schemes include System one in Manchester and Metrocard in West Yorkshire

I am aware that tendered services can be pushed into it by including it in the tender.

The reason for the question is the government announcement today and the apparent failure of the Transport for the North ticketing system.

Thank you

Bizarely in the south-east we have the Discovery tickets, in our area the only buses that don't accept it are the local councils rural transport initiative buses!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which begs the question, is that really what competition laws were intended to do? Essentially make regulation near enough impossible?

That just reinforces my position that the structure of the bus industry post-deregulation is not fit for purpose. The free-market "tail" should not be wagging the "public service" dog.

Competition laws apply to all businesses and they are intended, and generally work fairly well, to reduce collusion and market manipulation by those who are in a position of power over the market.

The trouble is when it comes to passenger transport which is a natural monopoly, and by and large passengers benefit from collusion, because collusion in a passenger transport sense is cross-acceptance of tickets and co-ordination of timetables, and that to me is generally of more benefit than making sure that Stagecoach don't "act anticompetitively" to push Bob's Second Hand Dennis Dart Buses Ltd off their route. Generally bus companies, even when in a monopoly position (as most routes are), don't take the mick on fares so this is a limited concern (the presence of the private car and taxi in the market basically ensure this).

Therefore I think there's a strong case, regulation or no, to exempt passenger transport from most provisions of competition law.

FWIW, and I've mentioned it before, the oft-lauded German Verkehrsverbuende, now statutory organisations of various types, actually started off as a cartel of operators and only later slotted into their statutory role.

 

[lightning76]

deleted