SWR Class 458 to be retained

[pompeyfan]

I would imagine they’ll be driver open guard close.

 

[RealTrains07]

At the time the 458 and 460s were converted to 458/5s

Didnt SWT plan for them to work together with the 450s? Isnt that why they have a cab gangway in the first place?

 

[swt_passenger]

At the time the 458 and 460s were converted to 458/5s

Didnt SWT plan for them to work together with the 450s? Isnt that why they have a cab gangway in the first place?

They had a better gangway than the original fitted for multiple working within their own class, and the couplings were changed to allow rescue coupling only by Desiros. Never intended to work together.

(The original 458 gangway was only joined or split within the depot. The 12 ex-460 driving vehicles got gangways for the first time.)

 

[Siemens Staines]

Be interesting to see if use of the gangway doors is resurrected? Biggest pain at the moment is to find that you are in the half of the train that has no working toilets and you can't get to the other unit.

 

[Goldfish62]

Suburban 2+2 is wide aisles and no tables, unsuitable for mainline work. Presumably it'll be an upgrade to Class 444 type interior.

The actual spacing of the seats is already there due to the large seat spacers used. The gangways aren't really any wider than in a mainline 2+2 carriage. They just need armrests.

 

[45076]

Begs the question what will happen to the spare 458 trailers.

That is exactly what I was thinking.

 

[WombleGuard]

Grey 458s........

 

[Dan15812]

I wonder if they'll get their vinyl replaced with carpet? That will be interesting!

 

[AlistairCowell]

That is exactly what I was thinking.

Probably sold for scrap, unless ScotRail wants them to extend their Class 334s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Be interesting to see if use of the gangway doors is resurrected? Biggest pain at the moment is to find that you are in the half of the train that has no working toilets and you can't get to the other unit.

Thought they were using them on those units.

The actual spacing of the seats is already there due to the large seat spacers used. The gangways aren't really any wider than in a mainline 2+2 carriage. They just need armrests.

When they're a considerable upgrade from 3+2 seated 450s I'm not sure how important armrests would be. Tables would be useful though.

I do indeed wonder as some have if they'll put the seats and tables from the 442s in, though, as those already have armrests.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thought they were using them on those units.

I think it’s in that sort of grey area where they can theoretically be used but the non-commercial guards insist on locking them to maintain their status quo...

 

[Snow1964]

Aren’t the 458s restricted to 90mph, so not going to be useful on fasts or semi-fast on the main Winchester line.

But I guess the lower gearing might help on the twisty and less flat Portsmouth direct line. However might be sensible to keep them on self contained diagrams, something like Solent lines

 

[CBlue]

Aren’t the 458s restricted to 90mph, so not going to be useful on fasts or semi-fast on the main Winchester line.

But I guess the lower gearing might help on the twisty and less flat Portsmouth direct line. However might be sensible to keep them on self contained diagrams, something like Solent lines

75mph currently. As a post above stated, they're getting regeared to 100mph again

 

[theironroad]

I wonder if they'll get their vinyl replaced with carpet? That will be interesting!

It would be good if they could utilise the carpet from the 442s somehow, provided by Axminster iirc.

Imagine they could find a way of stitching bits together where required.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Another advantage of the 458s is that they don't require a shunter to couple them up so it opens the possibility of them going on the Weymouths.

 

[Dan15812]

I've nether understood the difference in window panelling on 458's! Would be nice if they could all get consistent window frames fitted!

 

[JonathanH]

Be interesting to see if use of the gangway doors is resurrected? Biggest pain at the moment is to find that you are in the half of the train that has no working toilets and you can't get to the other unit.

It would be nice if the toilets got upgraded for their new role. They didn't work the first time they were reprieved at the expense of the 442s.

I've nether understood the difference in window panelling on 458's! Would be nice if they could all get consistent window frames fitted!

They can do that by just binning the cars from the 460s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've nether understood the difference in window panelling on 458's! Would be nice if they could all get consistent window frames fitted!

This is because they're a mix of coaches from 458s and 460s, the former had gasket glazing and the latter had glued-in ribbon glazing, and it presumably wasn't worth the cost of changing it.

 

[Goldfish62]

It would be nice if the toilets got upgraded for their new role. They didn't work the first time they were reprieved at the expense of the 442s.

Agreed, and they were completely untouched by the five-car project.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another advantage of the 458s is that they don't require a shunter to couple them up so it opens the possibility of them going on the Weymouths.

Is the power supply up to an 8-car? A 4-car would be insufficient (like 4-cars are insufficient for more or less anything in the South East).

 

[David Goddard]

I've nether understood the difference in window panelling on 458's! Would be nice if they could all get consistent window frames fitted!

That would be quite an expensive project for what is effectively vanity.

They can do that by just binning the cars from the 460s.

Not if they want to retain 36 sets. Seriously why not return 1-30 to original 4 car formation then make the others (made up of the old 460 vehicles) up to six x 10 car trains, possibly for dedicated diagrams. Understand this is part logic, part OCD but saves losing vehicles which are only twenty or so years old so only at half life.

 

[pompeyfan]

There’s already quite a bit of concern they’ll be converted to DOO but I don’t know if there’s room in the cabs for monitors.

 

[traji00]

There’s already quite a bit of concern they’ll be converted to DOO but I don’t know if there’s room in the cabs for monitors.

The cab looks small, but no more cramped than Electrostars..

 

[JonathanH]

Understand this is part logic, part OCD but saves losing vehicles which are only twenty or so years old so only at half life.

Four driving cars already scrapped during the conversion process.

 

[David Goddard]

Four driving cars already scrapped during the conversion process.

Oh yes, realise that, have photos of them at Doncaster awaiting disposal. make that "saves losing any more vehicles which are only twenty or so years old so only at half life"

 

[swt_passenger]

There’s already quite a bit of concern they’ll be converted to DOO but I don’t know if there’s room in the cabs for monitors.

Is it even likely? Seems to me they’ll be operating mainly on the same or similar routes as 444 and 450, and neither have monitors...

 

[Fincra5]

The cab looks small, but no more cramped than Electrostars..

Looking at pictures, its more cramped than 377s (Picture)! Can't actually see where you'd even put DOO equipment given where the TMS is!

 

[43096]

Not if they want to retain 36 sets. Seriously why not return 1-30 to original 4 car formation then make the others (made up of the old 460 vehicles) up to six x 10 car trains, possibly for dedicated diagrams. Understand this is part logic, part OCD but saves losing vehicles which are only twenty or so years old so only at half life.

Why not? Because you're making yet another odd ball sub-fleet compared with 30 or 36 x 4-car units that can run at maximum 12-car length. And that's before you look at the make-up of the spare vehicles in terms of motors or trailers, TMS capabilities etc etc etc. Just a total non-starter.

 

[Goldfish62]

Is it even likely? Seems to me they’ll be operating mainly on the same or similar routes as 444 and 450, and neither have monitors...

Stagecoach specified them for DOO because they were intending to DOO all suburban services, hence they have door buttons on the drivers desk. No in-cab monitors because they were going to use platform mirrors and monitors.

There’s already quite a bit of concern they’ll be converted to DOO but I don’t know if there’s room in the cabs for monitors.

Surely unlikely given the DOO equipment was removed on the 442s.

 

[fgwrich]

I think the 350/2 would have been a better option than this, with a longer remaining life following conversion, so presumably Porterbrook still have them earmarked for something else?

My thoughts exactly, I would have rather have had those to be honest as it would at least have given SWR and Siemens a more standardised fleet.

So, with the 442s now going, it looks like Triggers Broom has had a replacement. The Juniper aka Triggers Broom Mk2.

It’s also somewhat ironic that, for the second time on the South Western, the 442 is being seen off by the Alstom Juniper fleet!