Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently

[dk1]

Finally announced then. Been expecting it for months.

 

[theironroad]

Finally announced then. Been expecting it for months.

Yeah, despite the testing of a unit that had the AC motors continuing until last couple of weeks, was always looking unlikely that they'd return. Bit surprised about the 458s though.

 

[Bigfoot]

Changes to our fleet: Withdrawal of Class 442
The Class 442 units will be retired from service and go through a process to remove useful spares and dispose of the vehicles.

Prediction. 442s stripped of seats, which will end up in the 458 refurbished interiors. Other useful spares removed. Perhaps a couple of sets bought/sold for loco hauled excursions. The rest are next seen as washing machines and tins onnthe shelf of your local supermarket.

 

[dk1]

Yeah, despite the testing of a unit that had the AC motors continuing until last couple of weeks, was always looking unlikely that they'd return. Bit surprised about the 458s though.

Stick the Darth Vader fronts back on & call them 460s haha.

 

[RealTrains07]

Gutted but not surprised about the 442s. Its a shame for me as this means I will never get the chance to take a journey on one.

 

[Dan15812]

Gutted but not surprised about the 442s. Its a shame for me as this means I will never get the chance to take a journey on one.

The same goes for me!

 

[ExRes]

After travelling on a few of them in Gatwick Express guise I'm just glad there's no chance I'll ever have to go on one again

 

[CBlue]

Having travelled on two or three between Brighton and Victoria.....I'm yet to discover what was so special about them. Unless cramped doorways and sluggish performance made them special.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having travelled on two or three between Brighton and Victoria.....I'm yet to discover what was so special about them. Unless cramped doorways and sluggish performance made them special.

They were basically (in my view) what the Mk3s should all have been like - power doors, manual vestibule doors that didn't bang back and forth, better lighting and better seats.

 

[Journeyman]

Gutted but not surprised about the 442s. Its a shame for me as this means I will never get the chance to take a journey on one.

Having travelled on two or three between Brighton and Victoria.....I'm yet to discover what was so special about them. Unless cramped doorways and sluggish performance made them special.

They were great in their original form, and an absolute game-changer compared to the stock that operated before. However, since the loss of the compartments, buffets and snugs, and replacement of all the original seats, they're really not that impressive at all, and just about every train that has come since has been superior.

 

[jfollows]

I lived between Portchester and Fareham 1986-1989, then Clanfield (drive to Petersfield) 1989-1994, albeit with 3 years in the US in the middle of the latter period. So I lived through the REP+TC migration to 442 period. I guess my best memory is leaving Waterloo in the dark at the front of a 4-REP + 8-TC, with the only sound being the AWS and the starting bell.
But the 442s were nice to travel on, I always liked them.
After I'd moved away I used them on the Portsmouth Direct also.
Last trip was September 2015 from Victoria to Gatwick.

I would personally have liked to have travelled on them again, one of my first post-Covid train plans is to visit a friend which would mean London-Petersfield.

But I can see the sense in the decision and it's good to have clarity now for what many of us suspected would happen for a while.

I don't expect I'll like the 458s much, but hey-ho. Probably only a CIG-BEP-CIG would make me happy on the Portsmouth Direct any more, but that's also part of my memories.

 

[Journeyman]

Prediction. 442s stripped of seats, which will end up in the 458 refurbished interiors. Other useful spares removed. Perhaps a couple of sets bought/sold for loco hauled excursions. The rest are next seen as washing machines and tins onnthe shelf of your local supermarket.

I hope the seats are re-used in the 458s, because otherwise there's a strong chance they'll get ironing boards, which will ruin them completely.

I also predict an attempt to preserve one, which will fail because no heritage railway will want a 115m long train that basically doesn't work.

 

[dk1]

They were basically (in my view) what the Mk3s should all have been like - power doors, manual vestibule doors that didn't bang back and forth, better lighting and better seats.

Just like travelling across Ireland until a few years back then.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I also predict an attempt to preserve one, which will fail because no heritage railway will want a 115m long train that basically doesn't work.

If they can sensibly be converted to loco-hauled (or to run with HST power cars on each end) they might be of interest to charter operations because of not having the manual door/head out of droplight issue. They were clearly viable as such as this was the subject of an entirely serious bid for TPE.

 

[Fincra5]

Having travelled on two or three between Brighton and Victoria.....I'm yet to discover what was so special about them. Unless cramped doorways and sluggish performance made them special.

Lovely to Drive And a decent 1st. Other than that, fairly hopeless for the job on GX.

 

[Journeyman]

If they can sensibly be converted to loco-hauled they might be of interest to charter operations because of not having the manual door issue. They were clearly viable as such as this was the subject of an entirely serious bid for TPE.

I doubt it will be possible. They were supposedly able to be hauled by any ETH-fitted loco in their original form, but I think that facility was removed some years ago, and to the best of my knowledge it was never used anyway. In their current form, they're really not that special anyway.

And a decent 1st.

Not any more.

 

[ExRes]

They were basically (in my view) what the Mk3s should all have been like - power doors, manual vestibule doors that didn't bang back and forth, better lighting and better seats.

I must have enjoyed some unique travel then, the ones I suffered were blessed with vestibule doors sponsored by Phil Collins

 

[dk1]

Lovely to Drive And a decent 1st. Other than that, fairly hopeless for the job on GX.

That always stuck in my mind. Boarded them several times on GatEx duties & each time the thought of their unsuitability for airport traffic hit me.

 

[444045]

Something that no-one seems to have mentioned is the fact that a lot of staff at Bournemouth Depot have suddenly lost their day to day jobs and must be wondering what is next for them. Not a very nice position to be in I'm sure.

 

[RichardKing]

That always stuck in my mind. Boarded them several times on GatEx duties & each time the thought of their unsuitability for airport traffic hit me.

The 387s aren't much better!

 

[bramling]

Gutted but not surprised about the 442s. Its a shame for me as this means I will never get the chance to take a journey on one.

In reality they’re not what they once were. The refurbishment for Southern wasn’t wonderful, and some of the nice features (such as compartments) were removed - though no doubt some will say that was an improvement!

They were nice trains, but haven’t really aged well unfortunately, and the fact that their traction system was prehistoric even from the time the units were built has not helped.

I’m surprised SWR aren’t going for 350/2s though. One can only assume that this is because they aren’t available yet, but then again neither are the 458s.

 

[Journeyman]

In reality they’re not what they once were. The refurbishment for Southern wasn’t wonderful, and some of the nice features (such as compartments) were removed - though no doubt some will say that was an improvement!

They were nice trains, but haven’t really aged well unfortunately, and the fact that their traction system was prehistoric even from the time the units were built has not helped.

I’m surprised SWR aren’t going for 350/2s though. One can only assume that this is because they aren’t available yet, but then again neither are the 458s.

The 350/2s have 3+2 seating and no DC capability, so will need significantly more extensive mods than the 458s, which are currently operating very reliably.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

So what do reckon £20m splurged on retractioning them plus some had been refurbished as well. Then they are going to spend another £5-10m on sorting out 458's.

Presumably all sanctioned by Dept of Transport.

 

[Journeyman]

So what do reckon £20m splurged on retractioning them plus some had been refurbished as well. Then they are going to spend another £5-10m on sorting out 458's.

Presumably all sanctioned by Dept of Transport.

Just because money has been spent already does not mean we have to see this project through to completion. It's been beset by unforeseen difficulties, including the worst global crisis for decades.

 

[bramling]

The 350/2s have 3+2 seating and no DC capability, so will need significantly more extensive mods than the 458s, which are currently operating very reliably.

Agreed, but still think the cost of DC addition and a change to the seating configuration would probably be worthwhile in the longer term, to allow a standard mainline 444/450 fleet (assuming they could be made standard with the 450s, albeit a different seating layout).

 

[43096]

It has to be said that the whole 442 project has been an absolutely scandalous waste of money. The solution of using the 458s has been available from the start, given SWR's intention to ditch them. Instead they have literally wasted millions on leasing costs, repainting, refurbishing and re-tractioning the 442s for no purpose.

The railway's ability to p*** money up the wall is never ending. Is to be hoped the bill is picked up by First and MTR rather than DfT and taxpayers - their idea, their plan, their utter screw up, should be their cost.

 

[swt_passenger]

Something that no-one seems to have mentioned is the fact that a lot of staff at Bournemouth Depot have suddenly lost their day to day jobs and must be wondering what is next for them. Not a very nice position to be in I'm sure.

SWR said otherwise. The 458s will be Bournemouth based, their words: “This fleet will be based at Bournemouth depot, going towards protecting the workforce there.” (From the quotes in the 458 thread.)

 

[ExRes]

So what do reckon £20m splurged on retractioning them plus some had been refurbished as well. Then they are going to spend another £5-10m on sorting out 458's.

Presumably all sanctioned by Dept of Transport.

And just maybe the Department was assured by engineering experts that it was worth the investment and would provide working trains, who would be responsible for wasting all that money then?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

It has to be said that the whole 442 project has been an absolutely scandalous waste of money. The solution of using the 458s has been available from the start, given SWR's intention to ditch them. Instead they have literally wasted millions on leasing costs, repainting, refurbishing and re-tractioning the 442s for no purpose.

The railway's ability to p*** money up the wall is never ending. Is to be hoped the bill is picked up by First and MTR rather than DfT and taxpayers - their idea, their plan, their utter screw up, should be their cost.

Just imagine if using 442s on their native 3rd Rail territory has in the end proved so complicated where things would be now if the original DfT plan of hauling them around on Trans-Pennine had came to fruition!

A lot of the additional costs during refurb will have been picked up by Angel Trains / Gemini.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

And just maybe the Department was assured by engineering experts that it was worth the investment and would provide working trains, who would be responsible for wasting all that money then?

At the time it was proposed as part of the franchise bid so was built into that. I'm surmising, but don't know, that First Group haven't used their own funds to undertake this as all costs are being picked up by Dept of Transport.

How many have been re-tractioned so far i wonder?