Brexit matters

[AndrewE]

And on this morning's news: John le Carre was so upset by Brexit and its consequences that he took Irish citizenship - which he had found he was entitled to as his grandmother was Irish.

 

[Journeyman]

Ah, hard cases.

So, who is to blame for companies relocating, and what words of comfort do you have for the freshly unemployed?

 

[21C101]

So, who is to blame for companies relocating, and what words of comfort do you have for the freshly unemployed?

Brexit has caused very little unemployment, unlike in the years after we joined when mass unemployment was caused by simultaneous dropping of tariffs with manufacturing rivals like Germany and imposition of tariffs on supply chain imports from non EU countries (not to mention new tariffs on exports to non EU countries).

And not to mention all the businesses put out of business or forced to contract due to the cost of the ever expanding EU aquis regulations.

But that was a more than acceptable price to pay for ascending the sunlit uplands of becoming a province of a country called Europe.

Some churn was inevitable just as it is with any major change and sadly some people end up o the receiving end. Should parliament have banned railways because of the millions of workers in the stagecoach and packhorse industries that lost their jobs when they were put out of business?

 

[Journeyman]

Brexit has caused very little unemployment, unlike in the years after we joined when mass unemployment was caused by simultaneous dropping of tariffs with manufacturing rivals like Germany and imposition of tariffs on supply chain imports from non EU countries (not to mention new tariffs on exports to non EU countries).

And not to mention all the businesses put out of business or forced to contract due to the cost of the ever expanding EU aquis regulations.

But that was a more than acceptable price to pay for ascending the sunlit uplands of becoming a province of a country called Europe.

Some churn was inevitable just as it is with any major change and sadly some people end up o the receiving end. Should parliament have banned railways because of the millions of workers in the stagecoach and packhorse industries that lost their jobs when they were put out of business?

What absolute nonsense. For most of our membership of the EU unemployment was low, and now we've left, it's demonstrably the cause of jobs going overseas.

 

[najaB]

Brexit has caused very little unemployment, unlike in the years after we joined when mass unemployment was caused by simultaneous dropping of tariffs with manufacturing rivals like Germany and imposition of tariffs on supply chain imports from non EU countries (not to mention new tariffs on exports to non EU countries).

Almost all of the Brexit impact has been masked by the Covid job retention scheme. The next twelve months are likely to be... interesting.

And not to mention all the businesses put out of business or forced to contract due to the cost of the ever expanding EU aquis regulations.

Very few companies will have been put out of business by EU regulations, since complying with those regulations opened up a market of almost half a billion people. In a lot of cases the UK government's implementation of EU directives went way above and beyond what was actually obligated.

 

[21C101]

What absolute nonsense. For most of our membership of the EU unemployment was low, and now we've left, it's demonstrably the cause of jobs going overseas.

No it is not rubbish, it was high from the late 70s until well into the 90's.

 

[Journeyman]

No it is not rubbish, it was high from the late 70s until well into the 90's.

And that coincided with Thatcher's reign of terror, oddly enough.

 

[21C101]

And that coincided with Thatcher's reign of terror, oddly enough.

It started well before Thatcher. One reason Labour lost to her (Deo Gratius) in the first place.

 

[Journeyman]

It started well before Thatcher. One reason Labour lost to her (Deo Gratius) in the first place.

Did it have anything to do with the EU? No.

 

[21C101]

Did it have anything to do with the EU? No.

"Basically, in the two decades before joining the EEC the UK grew by 67%, but in the two decades after joining UK growth fell to 42%. And there's nothing magical about 20-year periods. If we look at the decade before and the decade after the picture is similar: we grew 34% before joining but only 15% after....

Why might our growth have gone down after we joined the EEU? Opinions will vary but possible reasons include changing world conditions and the UK being less agile and having lower freedom to respond to them (because of more decisions having to be agreed at EEC level by multiple partner nations), a more European-style dirigiste approach to government rather than a traditionally British bottom-up one, greater emphasis on EEC-wide standards limiting opportunities for commercial innovation, the EEC's focus on big businesses (which are often slower to adapt), the failure of the EEC to cut trade deals with much of the world outside - especially its failure to catch the boom in Asia and to open up to some of the world's big free-trading nations, the EEC's protection of inefficient businesses, and the EEC's attention to social policy rather than prosperity (relative to the average approach of the UK).

Whatever the reasons, the fall in the UK growth rate gives the lie to the claim that Britain benefited economically by joining the EEC. The evidence does not support that conclusion. If anything, EEC and EU membership seem to have harmed UK GDP growth"

http://pensites.com/politics/article-1206/UK-growth-before-and-after-joining-the-EEC

 

[Journeyman]

Here you go desperately trying to prove the EU are bogeyman again. It's a really unhealthy obsession.

You won. Get over it.

 

[REVUpminster]

^I've got over it but it seems a lot of people are desperate for the country to fail. It won't. In fact the EU seem to be drifting eastwards with the only winner being Putin and China. Probably find the Sputnik vaccine is a clone of Phizer. It's what the Russians do; remember Concorde and Concordski. Biden will not be happy especially if he has to agree with Trump.

 

[Journeyman]

^I've got over it but it seems a lot of people are desperate for the country to fail. It won't. In fact the EU seem to be drifting eastwards with the only winner being Putin and China. Probably find the Sputnik vaccine is a clone of Phizer. It's what the Russians do; remember Concorde and Concordski. Biden will not be happy.

This is paranoid nonsense. I think Brexit is enormously stupid and harmful, but I don't want the country to fail just to be proven right. You're gleefully waiting for the EU to collapse, so you can laugh at the suffering this will cause to millions of people.

Of course the EU's focus is going to change - they can now ignore us completely.

I've moved on. You clearly want to keep fighting yesterday's battles over and over again.

 

[najaB]

Why might our growth have gone down after we joined the EEU?

Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

 

[Bayum]

Went down to the chemist today. Unable to get hold of one of my medicines because of changes to imports as a result of Brexit. I’ve also been hit a few times trying to order plants from abroad. Not happening.

 

[Journeyman]

Went down to the chemist today. Unable to get hold of one of my medicines because of changes to imports as a result of Brexit. I’ve also been hit a few times trying to order plants from abroad. Not happening.

Blimey. I hope that gets resolved quickly.

 

[najaB]

Went down to the chemist today. Unable to get hold of one of my medicines because of changes to imports as a result of Brexit. I’ve also been hit a few times trying to order plants from abroad. Not happening.

No idea why that was, things are going pretty well for the UK so far.

Are you sure the medicine wasn't just out of view behind a unicorn?

 

[Journeyman]

No idea why that was, things are going pretty well for the UK so far.

Are you sure the medicine wasn't just out of view behind a unicorn?

Plus you can die happy that we're a sovereign, independent trading nation, in full control of our borders and money...

 

[jon0844]

It is quite clear that some people who say we're doing alright aren't measuring it on how the UK is doing as a whole, but rather by making a comparison with how the EU is doing. If they're struggling with vaccinations, then ha ha!

Meanwhile, it seems some people are having their second jabs cancelled (and will have to rebook later), presumably so Boris can reach his next target and show how fantastic our vaccination has been.

We've left. You won. Discussing Brexit based on how bad the EU is doing isn't a thing. We're free of the EU. We're on our own (quite literally it seems) so stop following what they're doing like someone stalking their ex on Facebook to see how they're doing since they dumped you.

 

[REVUpminster]

Why do people on this site love to quote a part of a sentence. The morons are firmly on the the EU side. My wife had her second jab early. It was programmed for 11 weeks but she was called up after 9 weeks. I'm sure this post will be selectively quoted.

Biden will not be happy if he has to agree with trump.

It seems we paid for the Halix factory in the Netherlands that the EU want to take over.

 

[daodao]

Why do people on this site love to quote a part of a sentence. The morons are firmly on the the EU side. My wife had her second jab early. It was programmed for 11 weeks but she was called up after 9 weeks. I'm sure this post will be selectively quoted.

Biden will not be happy if he has to agree with trump.

It seems we paid for the Halix factory in the Netherlands that the EU want to take over.

It is fully in order for the EU to prohibit exports of any product (including vaccines) to perfidious Albion. Brexit was a hostile act from the EU perspective.

 

[jon0844]

What does it matter if someone got their second jab early* if loads of people are being delayed due to the delay in our vaccines? The NHS site as of now is warning people that there will be a delay; is that made up?

Boris is delaying the second jab to try and keep to the target for getting people their first jab. It might be the sensible option, but we aren't without our own problems.

* GPs have a limited allocation of vaccines they can allocate on any given day, to allow for anyone who has been overlooked, and I can imagine that it's possible someone might say they can't make an appointment and thus someone else gets a call to offer that slot to them.

 

[Bayum]

No idea why that was, things are going pretty well for the UK so far.

Are you sure the medicine wasn't just out of view behind a unicorn?

Yep. We’ve had to wait days for it to come through but never not entirely. Had to shop around a few chemists in Leeds to find one that had it in stock.

 

[dgl]

Well Jacob Rees Mogg was right when he said fish are now happier because of Brexit, because if you can't sell them then you are not going to bother to catch them, ergo they are happier as they're still in the sea

 

[alex397]

Why do people on this site love to quote a part of a sentence. The morons are firmly on the the EU side. My wife had her second jab early. It was programmed for 11 weeks but she was called up after 9 weeks. I'm sure this post will be selectively quoted.

Biden will not be happy if he has to agree with trump.

It seems we paid for the Halix factory in the Netherlands that the EU want to take over.

Pretty sure it's a forum rule to only quote relevant parts.

It may seem like it to you, but I think most remainer 'morons' are not on the EU's 'side' apart from some very fanatic ones. I can't speak for everyone but while I strongly feel we should have stayed in the EU, and respect the EU for various things they have done, I don't agree with everything they do, and the vaccine fiasco is an example. So, I'm on no ones 'side'.

 

[21C101]

It is quite clear that some people who say we're doing alright aren't measuring it on how the UK is doing as a whole, but rather by making a comparison with how the EU is doing. If they're struggling with vaccinations, then ha ha!

Pound is also back above the dollar level it was at when the referendum was held and is climbing steadily against the euro.

"Brexit: Predictions of Economic Doom Show Why People Ignore "Experts"

Opponents of a British exit—and the economists they employed—insisted that not only would the eventual withdrawal be disastrous for the UK economy, but that even the market uncertainty associated with an eventual withdrawal would cripple the British economy.

For example, the UK Treasury released a report in May 2016 stating:

"A vote to leave would cause a profound economic shock creating instability and uncertainty which would be compounded by the complex and interdependent negotiations that would follow. The central conclusion of the analysis is that the effect of this profound shock would be to push the UK into recession and lead to a sharp rise in unemployment."

Brexit: Predictions of Economic Doom Show Why People Ignore "Experts" | Mises Institute

Experts who predicted economic doom as Brexit approached obsessed over the problem of "transaction costs" in trade. But the EU was imposing countless new

mises.org

It is fully in order for the EU to prohibit exports of any product (including vaccines) to perfidious Albion. Brexit was a hostile act from the EU perspective.

I think this fully sums up the hardline remainer mentality.

 

[Journeyman]

Pretty sure it's a forum rule to only quote relevant parts.

It may seem like it to you, but I think most remainer 'morons' are not on the EU's 'side' apart from some very fanatic ones. I can't speak for everyone but while I strongly feel we should have stayed in the EU, and respect the EU for various things they have done, I don't agree with everything they do, and the vaccine fiasco is an example. So, I'm on no ones 'side'.

This is true. I would actually go as far as saying I'd be hesitant to advocate rejoining, but think we should get back in the CU and SM as soon as we can.

"A vote to leave would cause a profound economic shock creating instability and uncertainty which would be compounded by the complex and interdependent negotiations that would follow. The central conclusion of the analysis is that the effect of this profound shock would be to push the UK into recession"​

This may not be 100% true, but the cost of Brexit is still staggering. It's already cost us more than the entire membership fees we ever paid the EU, and will result in decades of lost opportunities, lost investment and lost growth.

That's real people's lives we're talking about here.

You're also choosing to ignore the leavers who told blatant porkies, like we'd stay in the CU/SM, we'd be like Norway or Switzerland, and there would be absolutely no downsides to leaving.

 

[Doppelganger]

Pound is also back above the dollar level it was at when the referendum was held and is climbing steadily against the euro.

GBP:USD was touching 1.48 and now it's 1.36. GBP : EUR was 1.30, it's now 1.17. It has appreciated of late, but still down.

Where are you getting your data from if you say GBP is above USD level from time of the referendum?

 

[21C101]

GBP:USD was touching 1.48 and now it's 1.36. GBPUR was 1.30, it's now 1.17. It has appreciated of late, but still down.

Where are you getting your data from if you say GBP is above USD level from time of the referendum?

Apologies I made a slight error (0.16 of a cent out)

 

[Doppelganger]

Apologies I made a slight error (0.16 of a cent out)

The referendum was June 2016...

Why not compare to when you could get more than 2 dollars to the £ when UK was in EU?

The rate beforehand had various different factors affecting it. The overall drop since the referendum is attributed to the UK leaving the EU