Vaccine Passports/Permanent restrictions

[duncanp]

I think we can expect lockdown before the next relaxing of restrictions ( 17th May or June 21st at latest ) as IMO that’s what all these “advisors “ on the news are hinting at , like I said Boris seems only to keen to hope obstacles and put obstacles in the path of our way to freedom and normality

On the subject of Boris am I the only one today who has noticed Boris “seems” to have changed his wording he seems to be referring to covid passports for international travel , not mentioning domestically - more in hope that those who are against it will sweep it under the carpet

This is not what Boris Johnson has bene saying today, according to the Daily Mail he expects the lockdown to end on time. Something would have to go spectacularly wrong, such as a large increase in cases, a new variant of concern, or a serious problem with the vaccination program, for the lockdown easings on 17th May and 21st June to be postponed.

The Prime Minister said he couldn't 'see any reason for us to deviate from the road map' which is due to see all legal limits on social contacts abolished by June 21 as part of the final phase of the four-step route out of the crisis. During a visit to an AstraZeneca Covid vaccine plant in Cheshire today, Mr Johnson said: 'I just think it's important we take each step on the road map as it comes and continue to roll out the vaccine, build up our defences, build up the natural resistance of our whole population in the way that we are and then continue to look at the data in the intervals that we've set out. 'So we are going to see exactly what happens from the April 12 to May 17 openings and thereafter through to June 21. At the moment, as I look at all the data, I can't see any reason for us to deviate from the road map that we have set out, we are sticking to it.

Elsewhere, the SAGE modelling is getting very critical reviews from some members of the scientific community:-

SAGE's doomsday models which predicted more than a thousand coronavirus deaths at the peak of a third wave later in the year cherry-picked 'very pessimistic assumptions', scientists warned today.

Independent experts told MailOnline the data used by the Government's scientific advisers 'didn't match' how well the vaccine rollout is going and played down how effective the jabs are - and at least one was 'very confident the NHS is not going to be overwhelmed'.

Professor Tim Spector, an epidemiologist at King's College London, said SAGE had repeatedly made bleak forecasts that never came true, 'perhaps to avoid complacency' among the public.

The government was yesterday accused of using 'Project Fear' tactics to prolong coronavirus restrictions by stealth with plans for mass twice-weekly testing, vaccine passports and foreign travel restrictions.

But No10's own forecasts show that any third wave of Covid this summer is likely to be manageable, and models that caused widespread alarm were worst-case nightmare scenarios based on ineffective vaccines.

Yesterday a tranche of papers released by the Scientific Advisory Group on Emergencies (SAGE) suggested that lifting curbs fully in June could cause push the NHS to the brink again.

The expert group included modelling from three different universities - Imperial College London, the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine (LSHTM) and Warwick University.

After reviewing all three papers, SAGE said social distancing, mask wearing and Covid vaccine passports will need to remain in place for at least another year to keep the virus in check even when the most brutal curbs are lifted.

It added that while the vaccines prevent the vast majority of people from falling ill and dying from coronavirus, they 'are not good enough' to see all curbs lifted 'without a big epidemic'.

The gloomiest modelling was done by the London School of Tropical Hygiene and Medicine, which forecast 'a resurgence in admissions and deaths comparable to the magnitude of the second wave in January', when there were more than 1,000 deaths a day.

The LSHTM research team warned a third wave could be even larger if there is a British outbreak of a new Covid variant which makes vaccines weaker.

But their pessimistic model assumed the AstraZeneca vaccine only reduced transmission - the number of people who continue to spread Covid - by 30 per cent, which is far more cautious than data from the real world suggests.

The Government's own analysis of Britain's vaccine rollout, carried out by Public Health England, found the jab slashes infections by about two thirds after just one dose and more than 70 per cent after both injections.

Professor Spector, who is running a major Covid symptom tracking study tracking a million Brits, slammed LSHTM's modelling. He said that while there may be small outbreaks of Covid in the future, 'we're not going to see anything like we've seen previously' now that half the adult population has been immunised.

Dr Raghib Ali, a clinical epidemiologist at Cambridge University and former Government Covid adviser, told MailOnline that despite the gloomy forecasts, 'we can be very confident the NHS is not going to be overwhelmed… I’m optimistic we will be able to follow the road map

 

[Baxenden Bank]

As somebody who is a manager of a well known clothing store there is no way il be enforcing that or any other stupid rules the morons running the country come up with.

If the government introduces a licencing regime for retail premises, and a condition of that licence is the requirement to Covid Status Check, and the penalty for failing to do that check is a significant fine, I guess the vast majority of shops will immediately comply. It's basic business survival whether they want to do it or not. Remember non-essential retail is currently closed by government diktat, it only takes a Statutory Instrument to change that from 'closed' to 'open only with a special licence'. It's a bit late for 12th April re-opening but they may heroically try. It's the shops fault for not applying, not ours for only deciding at the eleventh hour!

It concerns me that the government has changed it's line on Covid Passports. Apparently it is now seen an aid to businesses, to enable them to be free to decide whether to institute checks or not, and that by having a national scheme it is reducing the burden on them. Boy is that angels dancing on the head of a pin. Can anyone provide a list of the businesses actively campaigning for Covid Passports to be introduced? Campaigning to re-open yes, but I see no business shouting for it to be hamstrung by another level of bureaucracy.

The government (or their research) has already acknowledged that take-up of the vaccine will plummet once they reach the younger age groups.

The potential difference between requirement for international travel, and for mundane domestic uses has never been properly discussed by the government. Our Supreme Leader has acknowledged (reluctantly or perhaps with enthusiasm) that he simply cannot (will not?) introduce a passport for basic public services and essential shopping. The reason for doing so has not been spelt out but I suspect there is an element within the government / SAGE who would dearly love to introduce Covid Passports for absolutely everything, including visiting open spaces. He has also strongly hinted that he sees it as a good thing for 'special events'. What he has not done is give any indication of where he stands on activities inbetween - such as non-essential retail.

It's nothing to do with whether I agree or disagree with you on the measures being taken; it's the obscenity of the comparison being made. Just pause a moment to reflect on the nature of the regimes Niemoller and Solzhenitsyn faced.

And this demonstrates the hyperbolic nonsense that's being spouted by apparently intelligent people. The existence of this forum, and complete legality of posts like yours, disprove in themselves what you say about freedom of expression or thought, while my attendance at church most weeks since last July and that of my kids at school (albeit by Teams till early March) shows that the rights of thought, conscience, religion and education remain. And with those basics in your assertion disproved, I see no reasons to believe your other contentions. Which, with this Home Secretary and the legislation she's pushing through, is rather counter-productive when you start to argue what you do about freedom of assembly.

You are the one making the comparison.

I was referring to the gradual erosion of liberties. The removal of opposition (or rights / freedoms) group by group, where people do not object because they do not see the connection between the actions of the state on a group remote from their own experience, and the impact down the line when it becomes their turn. I referenced Niemoller so that people would know I wasn't the author of the prose and could conduct further in depth research if they so chose. I think, in reality, you know that full well.

 

[Ascotroyal]

If the government introduces a licencing regime for retail premises, and a condition of that licence is the requirement to Covid Status Check, and the penalty for failing to do that check is a significant fine, I guess the vast majority of shops will immediately comply. It's basic business survival whether they want to do it or not. Remember non-essential retail is currently closed by government diktat, it only takes a Statutory Instrument to change that from 'closed' to 'open only with a special licence'. It's a bit late for 12th April re-opening but they may heroically try. It's the shops fault for not applying, not ours for only deciding at the eleventh hour!

It concerns me that the government has changed it's line on Covid Passports. Apparently it is now seen an aid to businesses, to enable them to be free to decide whether to institute checks or not, and that by having a national scheme it is reducing the burden on them. Boy is that angels dancing on the head of a pin. Can anyone provide a list of the businesses actively campaigning for Covid Passports to be introduced? Campaigning to re-open yes, but I see no business shouting for it to be hamstrung by another level of bureaucracy.

The government (or their research) has already acknowledged that take-up of the vaccine will plummet once they reach the younger age groups.

The potential difference between requirement for international travel, and for mundane domestic uses has never been properly discussed by the government. Our Supreme Leader has acknowledged (reluctantly or perhaps with enthusiasm) that he simply cannot (will not?) introduce a passport for basic public services and essential shopping. The reason for doing so has not been spelt out but I suspect there is an element within the government / SAGE who would dearly love to introduce Covid Passports for absolutely everything, including visiting open spaces. He has also strongly hinted that he sees it as a good thing for 'special events'. What he has not done is give any indication of where he stands on activities inbetween - such as non-essential retail.


You are the one making the comparison.

I was referring to the gradual erosion of liberties. The removal of opposition (or rights / freedoms) group by group, where people do not object because they do not see the connection between the actions of the state on a group remote from their own experience, and the impact down the line when it becomes their turn. I referenced Niemoller so that people would know I wasn't the author of the prose and could conduct further in depth research if they so chose. I think, in reality, you know that full well.

Yep if it has to be enforced legally then will have no choice to enforce it no matter how much i disagree about it. Had enough problems with masks and social distancing. Personally couldnt care less if somebody is wearing a mask or not.

 

[Pete_uk]

Retail will go through a nightmare if such a silly thing comes to pass

 

[david1212]

As somebody who is a manager of a well known clothing store there is no way il be enforcing that or any other stupid rules the morons running the country come up with.

If the government introduces a licencing regime for retail premises, and a condition of that licence is the requirement to Covid Status Check, and the penalty for failing to do that check is a significant fine, I guess the vast majority of shops will immediately comply. It's basic business survival whether they want to do it or not. Remember non-essential retail is currently closed by government diktat, it only takes a Statutory Instrument to change that from 'closed' to 'open only with a special licence'. It's a bit late for 12th April re-opening but they may heroically try. It's the shops fault for not applying, not ours for only deciding at the eleventh hour!

...

Yep if it has to be enforced legally then will have no choice to enforce it no matter how much i disagree about it. Had enough problems with masks and social distancing. Personally couldn't care less if somebody is wearing a mask or not.

I wouldn't take that as certain. If the viability is already marginal not least with costs acrued during lockdown closure it could be the tipping point to keeping the shutters down and throwing in the towel.

Not least politically the government need every last business to keep trading at least for the remainder of this year.

 

[PHILIPE]

Who first came up with the idea of Vaccine Passports and gave an opportunity for Johnson to latch onto and turn it into the issue it has become. A case of putting ideas into somebody's head and becoming a distraction and a complication in the fight against COVID.

 

[johnnychips]

I can’t work out whether this lot are:
a) devious - using the covid crisis to introduce restrictions and virtual ID cards
b) helping their mates - giving the world-beating track/trace system to Serco (I think) and ignoring proved Apple/Google apps; buying all that useless PPE; deciding on a Moonshot and buying all the LRP tests, which they have now somehow got to use
c) Thick and impulsive. Matt Hancock has always struck me as so, yet it seems he has a degree from Oxford. Oh yes, a vaccine passport is a great idea - oh hang on, the people working in such places where it applies won’t have been vaccinated. Putting up with the worst-scenario graphs. Listening to Facebook as the driver of government policy. Even though most people are vaccinated, we need greater measures than last summer, yet we have a world-beating vaccine.

I could elaborate and go on, but it is depressing.

Having lived in an ex-mining village for over thirty years, I am not a fan of Mrs Thatcher. But at least she was a scientist and would have blown most of this crap out of the window.

 

[brad465]

According to this Guardian article, Starmer and Labour are "poised" to vote against as they call it "Covid status certificates", on the grounds of being discriminatory and the plan for them not having been clearly explained:

Labour opposed to 'discriminatory' and 'confusing' Covid status certificates

Shadow health secretary says ‘unfair’ vaccine document plan has not been clearly explained

www.theguardian.com

Labour has warned that Covid status certificates could be “discriminatory”, with Keir Starmer poised to vote against the measures.

The shadow health secretary, Jon Ashworth, accused the government of “creating confusion” by not explaining clearly where the documents may be needed, after Boris Johnson confirmed they were being investigated but would not be introduced earlier than mid-May.

Under the scheme, only people who can prove they have had a coronavirus vaccine, a recent negative test result or have antibodies from an infection in the last six months would be allowed into some settings.

“I’m not going to support a policy that, here in my Leicester constituency, if someone wants to go into Next or H&M, they have to produce a vaccination certificate on their phone, on an app,” Ashworth told BBC Breakfast. “I think that’s discriminatory.”

He added it made sense to ask people to get tested before going to events such as a football game, but warned that forcing everyone to carry an “ID card” proving they had been jabbed was not fair.

Johnson announced on Monday that the NHS was developing Covid status certificates, though said they would not be needed in a shop, pub garden or hairdresser before 17 May. He left open the possibility of them being needed in some indoor settings after that date, saying the government was working out “exactly what the proposal might be”.

A government-commissioned review also published on Monday only clarified that some settings, including public transport and essential shops, where the documents “should never be required”.

The scheme has still sparked anger among 40 Conservative MPs, who pledged to oppose the certificates and said they were “divisive and discriminatory”.

Here's hoping this along with an actual vote materialises, should number of Tory MPs opposed be sustained or increased.

 

[PHILIPE]

According to this Guardian article, Starmer and Labour are "poised" to vote against as they call it "Covid status certificates", on the grounds of being discriminatory and the plan for them not having been clearly explained:

Labour opposed to 'discriminatory' and 'confusing' Covid status certificates

Shadow health secretary says ‘unfair’ vaccine document plan has not been clearly explained

www.theguardian.com

Here's hoping this along with an actual vote materialises, should number of Tory MPs opposed be sustained or increased.

I don't think Johnson will go along with a vote for fear of losing and the effect that would have on his ego. He didn't mention it yesterday so has he gone off the idea.

 

[tommy2215]

I don't think Johnson will go along with a vote for fear of losing and the effect that would have on his ego. He didn't mention it yesterday so has he gone off the idea.

He may not have much to fear. SNP House of Commons leader Ian Blackford says the SNP may vote with the Government on vaccine passports, which basically guarantees Boris wins the vote. Exclusive: SNP open to voting for Covid passports in England (telegraph.co.uk)

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

According to this Guardian article, Starmer and Labour are "poised" to vote against as they call it "Covid status certificates", on the grounds of being discriminatory and the plan for them not having been clearly explained:

Labour opposed to 'discriminatory' and 'confusing' Covid status certificates

Shadow health secretary says ‘unfair’ vaccine document plan has not been clearly explained

www.theguardian.com

Here's hoping this along with an actual vote materialises, should number of Tory MPs opposed be sustained or increased.

Doesn't read like there dead against some restrictions being imposed until they out rightly oppose these pointless restrictions and start telling British public they support their freedoms then Boris will back down. As others say he hates to lose.

He may not have much to fear. SNP House of Commons leader Ian Blackford says the SNP may vote with the Government on vaccine passports, which basically guarantees Boris wins the vote. Exclusive: SNP open to voting for Covid passports in England (telegraph.co.uk)

After all his mouthed off at Boris at PMQs over the way they've handled Covid and he's now prepared to sell out. This won't help SNP cause in May elections is my take.

 

[takno]

After all his mouthed off at Boris at PMQs over the way they've handled Covid and he's now prepared to sell out. This won't help SNP cause in May elections is my take.

It won't do them any harm at all, because the likely upsides to the opposition of making capital from it are too small to be worth the risk of it backfiring.

Personally if I was going to use it to attack the SNP I'd go with the Ian Blackford's admission that this kind of matter is best resolved at a UK level, and the SNP's strong insistence that they need the kind of voice at Westminster that they can only retain by staying part of the UK. Frankly their Westminster operation is an absolute horror show, led by a man who, astonishingly, is probably the dimmest party leader in the place.

 

[35B]

You are the one making the comparison.

I was referring to the gradual erosion of liberties. The removal of opposition (or rights / freedoms) group by group, where people do not object because they do not see the connection between the actions of the state on a group remote from their own experience, and the impact down the line when it becomes their turn. I referenced Niemoller so that people would know I wasn't the author of the prose and could conduct further in depth research if they so chose. I think, in reality, you know that full well.

The comparison makes itself; the verse was written in specific circumstances and needs to be understood in the context of those circumstances. I am sure that you did provide the credit in good faith, but my response is because I believe the argument not just wrong but positively misleading.

There are perfectly valid arguments about this government’s approach to civil liberties, but the hysterical comparison to the great dictatorships drastically devalues them and those making them.

There is a great hysteria about how “authoritarian” this government is. Even if true, there is a world of difference between “authoritarian” and totalitarian, and using that verse about what happened within a dictatorship misrepresents Niemoller* and traduces the experience of those who suffered.

* - Not least, you may want to look up Niemoller’s own political views, which were much further towards “authoritarian” than you might like.

 

[Mintona]

These are definitely happening aren’t they. With the news of the two tests a week available for everyone it’s fairly obvious now that places will only be allowed to open properly if they certify that everybody entering is ‘clean’, whether through vaccination, test or antibodies.

So now if you’re young you’ll have to plan everything meticulously, no spontaneity to life. You’ll need to test yourself two days before you want to do anything more exciting than visit Tesco, with the not unsubstantial risk of receiving a false positive and being imprisoned for ten days.

 

[takno]

These are definitely happening aren’t they. With the news of the two tests a week available for everyone it’s fairly obvious now that places will only be allowed to open properly if they certify that everybody entering is ‘clean’, whether through vaccination, test or antibodies.

So now if you’re young you’ll have to plan everything meticulously, no spontaneity to life. You’ll need to test yourself two days before you want to do anything more exciting than visit Tesco, with the not unsubstantial risk of receiving a false positive and being imprisoned for ten days.

As I understand it there's very little tracking around the home tests. You could just take another one of the first one doesn't go the way you like. Either way I'm not sure how they're going to add the test results to the paper version of the passport - it's quite possible it will come down to having to claim you've taken a test on the door

 

[brad465]

The White House has spoken out against bringing vaccine passports in the US (there is no way that sort of scheme would have been accepted quietly there). The question is how much, if at all, this decision influences other countries' decisions on this issue?

Covid: US rules out federal vaccine passports

No American will be forced by the government to obtain proof of vaccination, the White House says.

www.bbc.co.uk

The White House has flatly ruled out national Covid-19 vaccination passports for Americans, saying citizens' privacy and rights should be protected.

Schemes to introduce such passports have been touted around the world as a way to enable safe circulation of people while fighting the pandemic.

The US said it did not and would not support a "system that requires Americans to carry a credential".

America has lost more than half a million lives to the virus.

Nearly 31 million cases have been registered, making the US the country worst affected by the pandemic, figures from Johns Hopkins University indicate.

Addressing reporters, White House press secretary Jen Psaki said: "The government is not now, nor will be, supporting a system that requires Americans to carry a credential.

"There will be no federal vaccinations database and no federal mandate requiring everyone to obtain a single vaccination credential."

"Our interest is very simple from the federal government, which is Americans' privacy and rights should be protected, and so that these systems are not used against people unfairly," she added.

Meanwhile, President Joe Biden has brought forward to 19 April the date by which all American adults will be eligible for a Covid vaccine.

"We have to ramp up a whole-of-government approach that rallies the whole country and puts us on a war footing to truly beat this virus," he said.

I don't know if states have the power to bring such passports in although if it's being ruled out at federal level, and remains as such, individual states may have problems bringing them in from at least a moral stance.

It won't do them any harm at all, because the likely upsides to the opposition of making capital from it are too small to be worth the risk of it backfiring.

Personally if I was going to use it to attack the SNP I'd go with the Ian Blackford's admission that this kind of matter is best resolved at a UK level, and the SNP's strong insistence that they need the kind of voice at Westminster that they can only retain by staying part of the UK. Frankly their Westminster operation is an absolute horror show, led by a man who, astonishingly, is probably the dimmest party leader in the place.

If the SNP voting for vaccine passports was the difference between it passing and losing, and they then get a majority in Holyrood in May, I'd be tempted to think we should just skip the referendum and boot Scotland out of the UK (despite myself being a unionist) for imposing their diktat on us like that when those in England are unable to vote in a way to approve or disapprove of the SNP as they don't stand in England.

 

[kristiang85]

These are definitely happening aren’t they. With the news of the two tests a week available for everyone it’s fairly obvious now that places will only be allowed to open properly if they certify that everybody entering is ‘clean’, whether through vaccination, test or antibodies.

So now if you’re young you’ll have to plan everything meticulously, no spontaneity to life. You’ll need to test yourself two days before you want to do anything more exciting than visit Tesco, with the not unsubstantial risk of receiving a false positive and being imprisoned for ten days.

The reality is, who is going to check? It's home testing, so if someone gets a positive result and feels fine they'll most likely just log it as negative.

It is just an obscene waste of money.

Just test people with serious symptoms! And use the savings to shore up the NHS capacity for any future outbreaks. With all this money going on COVID testing and mitigation, we are going to be left with a perennially underfunded and inadequate health service for the 99% who will be using it for something other than COVID.

 

[bramling]

The White House has spoken out against bringing vaccine passports in the US (there is no way that sort of scheme would have been accepted quietly there). The question is how much, if at all, this decision influences other countries' decisions on this issue?

Covid: US rules out federal vaccine passports

No American will be forced by the government to obtain proof of vaccination, the White House says.

www.bbc.co.uk

I don't know if states have the power to bring such passports in although if it's being ruled out at federal level, and remains as such, individual states may have problems bringing them in from at least a moral stance.


If the SNP voting for vaccine passports was the difference between it passing and losing, and they then get a majority in Holyrood in May, I'd be tempted to think we should just skip the referendum and boot Scotland out of the UK (despite myself being a unionist) for imposing their diktat on us like that when those in England are unable to vote in a way to approve or disapprove of the SNP as they don't stand in England.

To be fair (much as I despise the SNP!), the real problem is the shambles that is the Conservatives at the moment. The fact that enough of them are likely to vote for vaccine passports is the root of the problem.

 

[swj99]

Bottom line is this. We're all going to die sometime. Obviously most people hope this is later rather than sooner, but how many people can realistically hide forever for fear of catching an illness which admittedly is worse than the flu, but which is also said to have a very high survivability rate ? Beyond a certain point, I'd be willing to take my chances. I do hope I don't catch covid19, or indeed any other potentially fatal illness, but it basically comes to a point where each individual person has to decide what's best for them. It's horses for courses.

A vaccine passport is effectively a disclosure of a persons medical history and status, and to me, that is unacceptable as it's confidential. If the authorities attempt to impose vaccine passports, this will be rigorously opposed and there are already preparations in place for legal challenges to this.
The same mainstream media that told us Jeremy Corbyn was at an IRA funeral carrying a newspaper, and wearing a tee shirt with the words, "I IRA" is now telling us to be really frightened and this is having a seriously negative effect on a great number of people. I can't tell anyone else what to think, and I can't make anyone agree with me, but what I can do is invite people to take a step back and try to see all this in perspective, then ask themselves if the government is really being honest, and if the mainstream media might be stirring things a bit.

As for vaccine passports, it'll end in tears. Please be careful what you wish for.

Did Jeremy Corbyn walk in a paramilitary funeral procession? - FactCheckNI

The image of Corbyn was altered and then overlaid onto a video image still. Using the online tool Google reverse image search, this image has not appeared on the web before 2017. We also note that the image appears to have come from a photo of a computer printout (“Page 1 of 1”). It is also...

factcheckni.org

 

[yorksrob]

It won't do them any harm at all, because the likely upsides to the opposition of making capital from it are too small to be worth the risk of it backfiring.

Personally if I was going to use it to attack the SNP I'd go with the Ian Blackford's admission that this kind of matter is best resolved at a UK level, and the SNP's strong insistence that they need the kind of voice at Westminster that they can only retain by staying part of the UK. Frankly their Westminster operation is an absolute horror show, led by a man who, astonishingly, is probably the dimmest party leader in the place.

Yes, such a move would seem to undermine the SNP's core raison d'etre.

If they go ahead with this, I hope the other parties hammer them with it.

 

[Master Cutler]

Government Ministers are, as we all know, not experts, who, while they ride the metaphorical COVID roller coaster, learn to make all the right noises at the right time, much the same as fairground riders do on the humps and gradients of the fairground ride.
If all of the concerns and dangers expressed during the current vaccination process turn out to have any substance then the government will scream at the appropriate time and then point to the experts for not operating the roller coaster correctly.
We are in uncharetd waters and I sometimes think if it would be better if the Government Ministers kept quiet and left the qualified experts to discuss the merits of passports and the like.

 

[dave87016]

IF Covid passports were required for shops and the likes of primark, JD sports any retailer that would be the final nail in the coffin for the high street imo after the way people have changed their habits over the last 12 months I think they would be happier to shop online than have to produce a Covid passport

There is only one real reason that Covid vaccination passports should be required for and that is for international travel nothing else

If all this Covid passport goes ahead domestically we are going to find ourselves at the other end of the spectrum in other words from being vaccinated leading to our freedom and our old way of life to living in a goverment bubble if you will with several restrictions won’t able to enjoy yourselves in the way you used to , basically it would mean instead of enjoying myself in my free time it would only involve a daily routine that consists of work , home , sleep only

As I won’t be prepared to produce Covid vaccination passport to appease the goverment in order to enjoy myself or go to a big event

 

[johncrossley]

Just heard on the ITV News they're beginning 'trials' at a few venues within the next couple of weeks, such as the Snooker championship...

No social distancing at all for the final as they will be allowing a full capacity.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

No social distancing at all for the final as they will be allowing a full capacity.

And the argument will go:
Everyone had a negative Covid status prior to entry, the event happened, there was no spike in cases. Ergo, that is the only way to safely run large events (replace with shopping, pubs etc as you please).

There needs to be a control event, of a similar scale/nature, where Covid status is not checked at all, to see if the outcome is the same, better, or worse. A ticketed event should be reasonably easy to follow up - you have the details of the people buying tickets. Perhaps a little bit more detail on the personal data would be required, confirming you are (for example) buying for yourself and named persons x, y and z. We do after all have substantial Test and Trace capacity in our world-beating system.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I am implacably opposed to any form of domestic Covid Passport. Aside from the fact that they would clearly be discriminatory, this would be the final straw in a litany of ridiculous government diktats that defy logic and should be ridiculed by any person with even half a brain.

How is it necessary to prove your health status in Primark, but not in the crowded Sainsburys next door? Does the virus know the difference between different retailers?

How is it logical to require the customer to be ‘clean’ yet the staff who serve you in Primark are of an age that means THEY aren’t vaccinated, and you can still (even if yous jabbed-up, innit?) pass the virus to them??

It’s utter bollo**s and it is high time Parliamentarians started bellowing ‘but the King has no clothes!’

I’m surprised nobody has thought of another flaw with a Covid Passport...

If an app on my smartphone says I, Billy Jones, has been vaccinated, and I lend my phone to Dave Smith, how does the person on the door (who is also likely to be an unvaccinated youngster) know Dave is not me?

A paper certificate for those unable or unwilling to use a smartphone would be even less secure.

The obvious answer is the Covid Passport would also need to bear the holder’s photo....

An ID Card by the back door

 

[bramling]

I am implacably opposed to any form of domestic Covid Passport. Aside from the fact that they would clearly be discriminatory, this would be the final straw in a litany of ridiculous government diktats that defy logic and should be ridiculed by any person with even half a brain.

How is it necessary to prove your health status in Primark, but not in the crowded Sainsburys next door? Does the virus know the difference between different retailers?

How is it logical to require the customer to be ‘clean’ yet the staff who serve you in Primark are of an age that means THEY aren’t vaccinated, and you can still (even if yous jabbed-up, innit?) pass the virus to them??

It’s utter bollo**s and it is high time Parliamentarians started bellowing ‘but the King has no clothes!’

I’m surprised nobody has thought of another flaw with a Covid Passport...

If an app on my smartphone says I, Billy Jones, has been vaccinated, and I lend my phone to Dave Smith, how does the person on the door (who is also likely to be an unvaccinated youngster) know Dave is not me?
The obvious answer is the Covid Passport would also need to bear the holder’s photo....

An ID Card by the back door

The whole thing is horrible, and marks a significant step in us unwittingly transitioning to a “permission society”, where the government deigns to allow us to do things, as opposed to only intervening to prevent very specific activities by way of laws.

Will the government allow us to be out of our homes next winter, for example?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

The whole thing is horrible, and marks a significant step in us unwittingly transitioning to a “permission society”, where the government deigns to allow us to do things, as opposed to only intervening to prevent very specific activities by way of laws.

Will the government allow us to be out of our homes next winter, for example?

Permission or not, until or unless there is a realistic possibility of being stopped by the Police, I am not observing any rules

 

[MikeWM]

I’m surprised nobody has thought of another flaw with a Covid Passport...

If an app on my smartphone says I, Billy Jones, has been vaccinated, and I lend my phone to Dave Smith, how does the person on the door (who is also likely to be an unvaccinated youngster) know Dave is not me?

A paper certificate for those unable or unwilling to use a smartphone would be even less secure.

The obvious answer is the Covid Passport would also need to bear the holder’s photo....

An ID Card by the back door

The mockup screenshots - presumably supplied by the government - in the newspapers last weekend included the 'passport photo' of the individual (so presumably they are already suggesting linking to the passport database, amongst others). There was no explanation of how paper alternatives would work.

Indeed, it is Blair's ID cards again, with much more wide-ranging uses than even his scheme proposed, and that was more than bad enough. Why do we think Blair is one of the key driving forces behind this push for Covid papers?

The Lib Dems appear to have cottoned on to this and appear to be calling them 'ID cards' at every opportunity they get. Good for them.


There's one other key issue too, which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere yet. At some point we're presumably going to welcome tourists back to the UK. But they won't have UK papers, so are we saying they won't be able to do anything while they are here? Or are we expecting shops and pubs and hotels to somehow recognise the legitimacy (or otherwise) of hundreds of different apps from all around the world? (Of course, the answer to that is 'for convenience' we'll probably all have to end up using the same app worldwide. Or more likely, it will just become a part of the apple/google OS. Can't see any privacy/liberty problems with that......

 

[ainsworth74]

There's one other key issue too, which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere yet. At some point we're presumably going to welcome tourists back to the UK. But they won't have UK papers, so are we saying they won't be able to do anything while they are here? Or are we expecting shops and pubs and hotels to somehow recognise the legitimacy (or otherwise) of hundreds of different apps from all around the world? (Of course, the answer to that is 'for convenience' we'll probably all have to end up using the same app worldwide. Or more likely, it will just become a part of the apple/google OS. Can't see any privacy/liberty problems with that......

I would imagine if we're going to go whole hog down this rabbit hole then such tourists won't be entering the country unless they've got proof of vaccination that they can show on arrival (or possibly departure!). Therefore recognising all the other apps/paperwork/etc is a problem for UK Border Force rather than individual venues within the UK. I think you can see that trend already in the the Red, Amber, Green business that was being discussed a week or so ago in regards to foreign trips for UK nationals. Go to a red country and you have to isolate in a hotel, amber and you're isolating at home, green you're fine (or something along those lines). I can well believe that similar guidelines will be applied to those visiting the UK from such countries. Come from a Red country and it's isolation come what may. Come from an Amber country and you'll be allowed to go about your business if you have an accepted format of vaccine passport you can show on arrival. Etc etc.

 

[MikeWM]

I would imagine if we're going to go whole hog down this rabbit hole then such tourists won't be entering the country unless they've got proof of vaccination that they can show on arrival (or possibly departure!). Therefore recognising all the other apps/paperwork/etc is a problem for UK Border Force rather than individual venues within the UK. I think you can see that trend already in the the Red, Amber, Green business that was being discussed a week or so ago in regards to foreign trips for UK nationals. Go to a red country and you have to isolate in a hotel, amber and you're isolating at home, green you're fine (or something along those lines). I can well believe that similar guidelines will be applied to those visiting the UK from such countries. Come from a Red country and it's isolation come what may. Come from an Amber country and you'll be allowed to go about your business if you have an accepted format of vaccine passport you can show on arrival. Etc etc.

So if you're from - let's say New York - then yes, there will be a check at the border.

Later they go to a pub. What do they show to get in the pub? If it is your New York 'Excelsior Pass' (that New York State are currently rolling out), are the pubs going to recognise what that is and therefore whether they should be allowed in or not?

Or if the suggestion is that any foreign-looking app is going to be accepted because there would be the assumption it has already been checked on entry to the country, that gives everyone a very easy workaround to the current proposals