Will Keir Starmer last?

[DarloRich]

I thought the whole line was a bit pathetic tbh. Going after 50k of slightly dodgy refurbishment money, rather than the dodgy Covid billions. Feels like he doesn't want to go after that because it threatens his precious lockdown, and his wife will send him to bed with no supper.

On the other hand the Tories have really risen to the occasion, and it's working out a treat.

I am not sure you quite grasp the concepts involved but I know some people are unable to consider that Johnson is anything less than wonderful. Perhaps to do so means considering whether swallowing all of his comforting lies was a mistake.

Starmer was spot on. Lead Major Sleaze into a trap just like would happen in court and let the jury see the real defendant. Johnson lost the plot, went mental and started raving. He was out of control and clearly didn't like being asked questions about what he, personally, was up to. We all know Johnson is hiding something. He made that obvious with his paddy!


As for the wallpaper pictures: Top trolling. Genius. The Tory boys are rattled.

I'm just a bit disappointed because there's so much very big to focus on, and frankly I could do with getting interested in some politics, and the small stuff is so boring.

The flashes of actual conviction disturb me as well. He seems so bought into the innate saintliness of the NHS and medical profession, and completely immune to any real empathy for the millions of lives lockdown is destroying.

The "small stuff" ( or corruption as it used to be called) is how you get to Johnson. Once you get to him you show the link to the big stuff. As for the final line. Dear me. Johnson has a great deal of empathy doesn't he.

( avoiding the silliness about lockdown as being o/t)

 

[takno]

I am not sure you quite grasp the concepts involved but I know some people are unable to consider that Johnson is anything less than wonderful. Perhaps to do so means considering whether swallowing all of his comforting lies was a mistake.

Starmer was spot on. Lead Major Sleaze into a trap just like would happen in court and let the jury see the real defendant. Johnson lost the plot, went mental and started raving. He was out of control and clearly didn't like being asked questions about what he, personally, was up to. We all know Johnson is hiding something. He made that obvious with his paddy!


As for the wallpaper pictures: Top trolling. Genius. The Tory boys are rattled.


The "small stuff" ( or corruption as it used to be called) is how you get to Johnson. Once you get to him you show the link to the big stuff. As for the final line. Dear me. Johnson has a great deal of empathy doesn't he.

( avoiding the silliness about lockdown as being o/t)

Just to be absolutely clear on this, Johnson is an absolutely terrible prime minister leading a dreadful corrupt government. I'm absolutely not saying that Johnson is better than Starmer, or that Johnson is fit to be prime minister, or even that he shouldn't be in prison.

I voted for Starmer in the leadership contest, and while that was primarily a vote against Long-Bailey, I was also relatively optimistic (it was the month before Covid). What I am saying that I find Starmer increasingly unlikeable and I decreasingly believe he's likely to beat Johnson. I also believe that while Labour is still head and shoulders above this government in how they are likely to run the country, I'm very worried that such a prominent lover of lockdowns is genuinely not in tune with my most deeply-held principles.

 

[DarloRich]

Just to be absolutely clear on this, Johnson is an absolutely terrible prime minister leading a dreadful corrupt government. I'm absolutely not saying that Johnson is better than Starmer, or that Johnson is fit to be prime minister, or even that he shouldn't be in prison.

I voted for Starmer in the leadership contest, and while that was primarily a vote against Long-Bailey, I was also relatively optimistic (it was the month before Covid). What I am saying that I find Starmer increasingly unlikeable and I decreasingly believe he's likely to beat Johnson. I also believe that while Labour is still head and shoulders above this government in how they are likely to run the country, I'm very worried that such a prominent lover of lockdowns is genuinely not in tune with my most deeply-held principles.

I have never thought Starmer would beat the Tories. The 80 seat majority is simply too high. I never thought that was his job. In my mind his job is to steady the ship and make Labour look less like the anti British Corbyn fan boy basket case it has been over recent years. Starmer is a respectable, mature, steady, sensible adult and that is his job. I could certainly vote for him. I never could for Corbyn because he was a crackpot.


it is a long way back for Labour. I would settle for someone other than Johnson in number 10 mind!

 

[Cowley]

I’ve moved some of the posts referring to Keir Starmers stance on Covid into this thread now:https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ur-party’s-stance-during-the-pandemic.216827/

 

[tbtc]

I am not sure you quite grasp the concepts involved but I know some people are unable to consider that Johnson is anything less than wonderful. Perhaps to do so means considering whether swallowing all of his comforting lies was a mistake

This is the problem that (any) Labour leader faces - Johnson has been telling people what they want to believe for a long time (both as a columnist and as a politician pre/post becoming PM) -he's very good at giving people the impression that everything is simple and any potential problems can be easily wiped away by rolling you sleeves up, a good old bit of elbow grease and other comforting metaphors that play nicely to the demographic of people who don't want to think of the world as a complicated/ interconnected place.

So, he makes Brexit seem simple. He makes the post-Brexit negotiations seem simple (the kind of "we'll show them who's boss" approach). The fact that the reality is significantly worse will be ignored by people because they don't want to hear things like today's news that Britain will lose access to Norwegian fishing waters whilst Norwegian boats haven't lost any rights and can also sell the fish to the UK without tariffs. Who wants to hear bad news like that - much easier to focus on the next bit of culture war or find some distraction (quick, blame the BBC for teaching children that "being selfish is bad" or some other well intentioned tale that you can rip into).

To get people to see through Johnson will mean getting them to accept that he owns the failures, that the people who voted for this simplistic program of policies are partly responsible too.

As we saw with Trump, the people who've been scammed really really don't want to admit that they've been scammed. They saw the trick happening, but they thought that someone else was the patsy. It's hard to admit that it was you all along.

That means I think people will keep faith with Johnson for a lot longer than would normally be the case with a leader. He tells them what they want to believe in. In contrast to Corbyn (who seemed embarrassed of Britain), Johnson is proud, Johnson is upbeat, Johnson is a salesman who promises you what you want to hear. To admit that this was all baloney will require people to admit things about themselves that won't be comfortable.

 

[Busaholic]

I'd respectfully disagree.

Without trying to sound unduly patronising, a lot of people don't pay much attention to national economics. Does the man on the Clapham Omnibus know whether the cost of the pandemic is a thousand pounds/ five thousand pounds/ ten thousand pounds per head of the population? I don't know - it's millions and billions and numbers so big that it's hard to relate.

Look at what did for Labour in the Gordon Brown era - people might not have understood how the global financial meltdown meant all the inter-connected problems caused all the economic damage the they did...

...but we understood MP expenses - we might not have known how derivatives or credit swaps worked but we knew when someone was taking the mickey by ordering an item of furniture that we could have bought for a fraction of the price.

Plus, people can justify some of the crazy procurement that's taken place over the past twelve months - "the Government were in a crisis, of course they are going to go to people they trust, they were desperate, I can forgive them paying over the odds to try to keep people safe" (even thought there's clearly been a huge overspend and some rather "shady" purchases - e.g. the insistence on using Brexit backing people/ companies like Dyson and JCB when established ventilator companies couldn't get a foot in the door) - however there's no reason for the flat refurbishment (it was done under May so must all be pretty modern, and Johnson was meant to be focussing on the pandemic rather than house refurbishment), so there's a lot less to hide behind.

So people will understand the economics of refurbishing a flat (and see a PM who is seen to diss our beloved John Lewis) and you can criticise the flat refurbishment without being seen to be "Talking Britain Down" (which is how the Tories like to portray any general criticism), so it seems like the better story to keep going for now.

I don't know whether our trade deficit is high or low, but I do know what seems overpriced for a lamp/ chair/ table etc - talk to me about something I can relate to.

The huge sums of money wasted during Covid can be brought up over the next year or two - it may even become a bigger story as the dust settles and the invoices become public - whilst the trendy wallpaper story has limited life in it, so focus on the wallpaper for now and save your fire on the other story for the medium term.

Starmer seems a lot cannier than his opponents seem to take him at - he's avoiding the kind of traps that Corbyn would have stumbled into and is good at picking the right targets (sometimes Milliband was very unfocussed)

I completely agree with you. In an historical context, the 'taking down' of a criminal or corrupt person/cabal can often occur over something relatively petty, rather than the more major acts. I'd cite Al Capone and, in a smaller but more domestic context, the MPs Jonathan Aitken and Denis MacShane. Arrogance leads to hubris.

 

[tbtc]

I completely agree with you. In an historical context, the 'taking down' of a criminal or corrupt person/cabal can often occur over something relatively petty, rather than the more major acts. I'd cite Al Capone and, in a smaller but more domestic context, the MPs Jonathan Aitken and Denis MacShane. Arrogance leads to hubris.

Good shout re Al Capone.

I think that the reason why "sex scandals" are so often the downfall of politicians isn't because we are incredibly prudish, more that we can relate to the affairs, we can understand the rights/wrongs.

I don't know if the latest mega procurement exercise (NHS, Army, IET programme, whatever) was good value for money, I don't know if it was awarded fairly or to cronies, I don't know how efficient the big stuff is... but people know how they feel about "love cheats", they can draw the line there.

Same with Trump - one of the biggest accusations that seemed to cut through about the Teflon President was that he cheated at golf... you can excuse some things or accept that he wanted family members he could trust running things rather than experienced bureaucrats... you don't know if the spending on projects was excessive or not... but we've all known the kind of person who'd do something like cheat at golf - that's a simple morality exercise - which may be one reason why the stories about Johnson never buying his round in the pub (and insisting that interns go out and buy him coffees, and he doesn't reimburse them)... that's the kind of thing that might cut through.

(I'm not saying what's right/wrong, just that some things seem to work in this country - hence the way that we focus on apparently trivial things - e.g. "Cameron and a pig" is a simple story to understand, "Cameron and lobbying" is a harder story to get across - "Cameron and the leggy blonde" would have been tabloid dynamite if such a story ever existed - which is why the criticism of Blair over Iraq was nothing compared to the criticism he'd have faced if he'd had an affair... Britain, eh?)

 

[edwin_m]

Good shout re Al Capone.

I think that the reason why "sex scandals" are so often the downfall of politicians isn't because we are incredibly prudish, more that we can relate to the affairs, we can understand the rights/wrongs.

I don't know if the latest mega procurement exercise (NHS, Army, IET programme, whatever) was good value for money, I don't know if it was awarded fairly or to cronies, I don't know how efficient the big stuff is... but people know how they feel about "love cheats", they can draw the line there.

Same with Trump - one of the biggest accusations that seemed to cut through about the Teflon President was that he cheated at golf... you can excuse some things or accept that he wanted family members he could trust running things rather than experienced bureaucrats... you don't know if the spending on projects was excessive or not... but we've all known the kind of person who'd do something like cheat at golf - that's a simple morality exercise - which may be one reason why the stories about Johnson never buying his round in the pub (and insisting that interns go out and buy him coffees, and he doesn't reimburse them)... that's the kind of thing that might cut through.

(I'm not saying what's right/wrong, just that some things seem to work in this country - hence the way that we focus on apparently trivial things - e.g. "Cameron and a pig" is a simple story to understand, "Cameron and lobbying" is a harder story to get across - "Cameron and the leggy blonde" would have been tabloid dynamite if such a story ever existed - which is why the criticism of Blair over Iraq was nothing compared to the criticism he'd have faced if he'd had an affair... Britain, eh?)

Didn't seem to do John Major any harm though, when it emerged years later that he'd being going "back to basics" with Edwina Currie. I think people were just surprised someone characterised as so grey would get up to something like that.

To a large extent I see that sort of behaviour as a politician's private business, although perhaps not if if involves deception of a spouse or favouritism of the person involved (see: Jennifer Arcuri). I think however that misuse of public funds or misleading the public is another matter, and Bozo's record in that is as long as your arm. And many people see bending/breaking the rules in a small matter like a few tens of thousands for a flat is a sign that someone can't be trusted with the bigger things. There's also the "toff" factor of someone spending that much on a dwelling that was only re-decorated a few years before, rather like the ridicule Cameron got for spending £25k (?) on an imitation Gypsy caravan even though it was his own money and he'd left office by then.

 

[DarloRich]

Starmer is going to get a kicking today. I dont think Labour will win Hartlepooh, or the Tees Valley Mayoralty or the West Mids Mayoralty. They should win the West Yorkshire Mayoralty but that will lead to a by election in Batley which wont be a forgone conclusion! Scotland will also be bad. Wales less so.

he wont be ousted but will need to think hard about a response and try and come out fighting.

 

[Kite159]

Starmer is going to get a kicking today. I dont think Labour will win Hartlepooh, or the Tees Valley Mayoralty or the West Mids Mayoralty. They should win the West Yorkshire Mayoralty but that will lead to a by election in Batley which wont be a forgone conclusion! Scotland will also be bad. Wales less so.

he wont be ousted but will need to think hard about a response and try and come out fighting.

He will go off to do some soul searching before claiming to have won the argument and his losses were all down to the Corbyn faction.

 

[DarloRich]

He will go off to do some soul searching before claiming to have won the argument and his losses were all down to the Corbyn faction.

Corbyn and has fan boys ARE part of the problem though. Their toxicity is still polluting the narrative.

 

[brad465]

Starmer is going to get a kicking today. I dont think Labour will win Hartlepooh, or the Tees Valley Mayoralty or the West Mids Mayoralty. They should win the West Yorkshire Mayoralty but that will lead to a by election in Batley which wont be a forgone conclusion! Scotland will also be bad. Wales less so.

he wont be ousted but will need to think hard about a response and try and come out fighting.

Corbyn and has fan boys ARE part of the problem though. Their toxicity is still polluting the narrative.

Yes that group are the ones I have most concern over on the back of these results, not Tories or anyone else. In the hope Starmer does survive and is leading the party conference in Autumn, he needs to set out a strong post-covid vision, and also in particular electoral reform, the latter is well supported in the party so would keep Starmer onside for longer if he endorses it.

 

[Typhoon]

Yes that group are the ones I have most concern over on the back of these results, not Tories or anyone else. In the hope Starmer does survive and is leading the party conference in Autumn, he needs to set out a strong post-covid vision, and also in particular electoral reform, the latter is well supported in the party so would keep Starmer onside for longer if he endorses it.

You are right. I suspect part of the reason why he is getting a kicking in the (largely right-wing) press is because they want to see the back of him. As others have said, it is a long-term rebuilding exercise; not gaining councils now probably won't be too much of a hardship as they will not be awash with funds but will still get the blame for pot holes, high parking charges, graffiti, boarded up shops, poor bus services, lack of resources for the youth, leisure facilities closed/ with reduced hours, etc.

Johnson lost the plot, went mental and started raving. He was out of control and clearly didn't like being asked questions about what he, personally, was up to. We all know Johnson is hiding something. He made that obvious with his paddy!

That clip will be stored away and used by comedians and satirists for years to come, with or without the question; losing your temper always looks bad. Starmer sees off Johnson week after week in PMQs (if 'Captain Hindsight' is the best he can do then our PM really needs to start putting some effort in - Starmer's 'Major Slease' is better although the alliterative 'Sultan of Slease' better still). He needs to keep at it, get Johnson frustrated, so he does so more often; the 'hello, folks' chummy-Boris mask will start to slip. Labour needs a leader who can press the PM on detail, that is his weakness, and who better than a lawyer? My worry is that they will panic, go back to the extreme policies of Momentum and elect Long Bailey or whoever is flavour of the month on the left. That would be the end for a generation and the ERG will run riot.

 

[SuperNova]

Hartlepool would've gone Tory in 2019 but for the Brexit Party, the idea that Labour losing is some kind of shock is a nonsense and trying to attribute blame to Keir Starmer is also ludicrous. It's followed a pattern for years, Labour to Ukip to Tory. Those in the NE will vote Tory as Boris got Brexit done with little regard to the austerity inflicted on them.

There's going to be some terrible takes tomorrow, but there's plenty of reasons why that red wall has been crumbling for years and one that many in political circles can't comprehend. Age. Younger, more liberal labour voters have been leaving areas like Hartlepool for years to go earn good money and have good jobs in cities. The UK is becoming ever more value(£££)/age divided than class divided and it's no wonder why Labour do so well in city regions than in old industrial areas where home ownership is high and people vote to protect their assets rather than for the good of their region. Not to mention these areas still haven't forgiven Labour for electing Corbyn.

Corbyn and has fan boys ARE part of the problem though. Their toxicity is still polluting the narrative.

They've just rebadged themselves as the northern independence party even though half of them are southerners and didn't give a toss about the north until Corbyn got the boot. They claim to be democratic socialists but can't get over than Starmer overwhelmingly won the leadership election and are trying to paint him as a tory plant when he's a former member of radical socialist groups growing up in the late 70s/80s. Let's all call him Keith though cos we're really funny.

Alan Johnson was right about these lot, they couldn't lead the working class out of a paper bag. And they'll enjoy Labour losing too.

 

[Purple Orange]

You are right. I suspect part of the reason why he is getting a kicking in the (largely right-wing) press is because they want to see the back of him. As others have said, it is a long-term rebuilding exercise; not gaining councils now probably won't be too much of a hardship as they will not be awash with funds but will still get the blame for pot holes, high parking charges, graffiti, boarded up shops, poor bus services, lack of resources for the youth, leisure facilities closed/ with reduced hours, etc. That clip will be stored away and used by comedians and satirists for years to come, with or without the question; losing your temper always looks bad. Starmer sees off Johnson week after week in PMQs (if 'Captain Hindsight' is the best he can do then our PM really needs to start putting some effort in - Starmer's 'Major Slease' is better although the alliterative 'Sultan of Slease' better still). He needs to keep at it, get Johnson frustrated, so he does so more often; the 'hello, folks' chummy-Boris mask will start to slip. Labour needs a leader who can press the PM on detail, that is his weakness, and who better than a lawyer? My worry is that they will panic, go back to the extreme policies of Momentum and elect Long Bailey or whoever is flavour of the month on the left. That would be the end for a generation and the ERG will run riot.

Oh I see no chance that there will be a Corbyn sequel coming in any time soon. Although I’d love to see Labour 10 points ahead in the polls, I have no concerns about the capability of Starmer as leader. This is going to be a very long road and we are at least 3 years off a general election. A positive Labour platform needs to be established and I’d say right now is too early for that. Let the pandemic move past us and the vaccine polling boost will subside.

I’ll add that Starmer also needs to build a credible team around him. Labour has very competent MPs in the background, but some of members of the Corbyn front bench on display these past few years has eroded that public confidence.

 

[Typhoon]

Oh I see no chance that there will be a Corbyn sequel coming in any time soon. Although I’d love to see Labour 10 points ahead in the polls, I have no concerns about the capability of Starmer as leader. This is going to be a very long road and we are at least 3 years off a general election. A positive Labour platform needs to be established and I’d say right now is too early for that. Let the pandemic move past us and the vaccine polling boost will subside.

I’ll add that Starmer also needs to build a credible team around him. Labour has very competent MPs in the background, but some of members of the Corbyn front bench on display these past few years has eroded that public confidence.

Absolutely. Here, I don't think they are all stepping up. Jonathan Ashworth has done well but some of the others are almost anonymous.

I am pleased that you are confident that there will be no return to Momentum. In my lifetime Labour has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory far too frequently, either through rivalries between individuals or between factions. The party does not seem to realise that unless it can regain office, its policies are fairly irrelevant.

 

[PaulJ]

Knock knock.
Who’s there?
Kier
Kier who?
That’s politics!

 

[brad465]

Absolutely. Here, I don't think they are all stepping up. Jonathan Ashworth has done well but some of the others are almost anonymous.

I am pleased that you are confident that there will be no return to Momentum. In my lifetime Labour has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory far too frequently, either through rivalries between individuals or between factions. The party does not seem to realise that unless it can regain office, its policies are fairly irrelevant.

Rachel Reeves has definitely been stepping up, both in Parliament and TV interviews. The latter also applies to Lisa Nandy and Ed Miliband (plus his excellent Internal Market Bill Parliament speech), but yes after that more need to get involved. Shadow Chancellor Annelise Dodds certainly seems to be quieter than perhaps needed.

Knock knock.
Who’s there?
Kier
Kier who?
That’s politics!

There was a similar joke to this about Nick Clegg once, where you substituted Kier with Nick, and the last line is "That's showbiz!"

 

[Gloster]

Absolutely. Here, I don't think they are all stepping up. Jonathan Ashworth has done well but some of the others are almost anonymous.

I am pleased that you are confident that there will be no return to Momentum. In my lifetime Labour has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory far too frequently, either through rivalries between individuals or between factions. The party does not seem to realise that unless it can regain office, its policies are fairly irrelevant.

The problem is that there are (always) a number of factions within Labour who all believe that their particular interpretation of the party’s aims is the one that, when presented in a manifesto, will cause the electorate to see the light and bring about a Labour landslide at the next election. However, for the moment they are preoccupied with ridding the party of anyone who disagrees with their policies, rather than actually trying to get themselves in a position to enact them.

 

[DarloRich]

I’ll add that Starmer also needs to build a credible team around him. Labour has very competent MPs in the background, but some of members of the Corbyn front bench on display these past few years has eroded that public confidence.

I agree! Look at Burgon.

 

[Typhoon]

Rachel Reeves has definitely been stepping up, both in Parliament and TV interviews. The latter also applies to Lisa Nandy and Ed Miliband (plus his excellent Internal Market Bill Parliament speech), but yes after that more need to get involved. Shadow Chancellor Annelise Dodds certainly seems to be quieter than perhaps needed.

I don't disagree with any you name (especially Milliband, showing that he was probably made leader too early) but there are others. The governments weak links include the likes of Williamson, Patel, Jenrick, Eustace. More pressure needs to be put on them.

I agree! Look at Burgon.

Now he's come out of the woodwork -

Former shadow Cabinet member Richard Burgon tweeted: “Incredibly disappointing defeat in Hartlepool. We are going backwards in areas we need to be winning.”

The Labour Leftwinger added: “Labour’s leadership needs to urgently change direction. It should start by championing the popular policies in our recent manifestos - backed by a large majority of voters.”

My emphasis - a Trumpist statement if I ever saw one.

From https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ne...ol-by-election-loss/ar-BB1gsgPQ?ocid=msedgntp

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The problem is that there are (always) a number of factions within Labour who all believe that their particular interpretation of the party’s aims is the one that, when presented in a manifesto, will cause the electorate to see the light and bring about a Labour landslide at the next election. However, for the moment they are preoccupied with ridding the party of anyone who disagrees with their policies, rather than actually trying to get themselves in a position to enact them.

Absolutely. Divided parties don't win elections.

The problems hark back to Tory Blair taking the party line in completely the different direction then following him as party leader with Jeremy Corbyn The extremities of their party lines couldn't be any more chalk and cheese if they tried and as long as you have blairites and corbynistas within the party then long will it stay divided. Corbyn might have been successful if his party members backed him as much as the electorate did but people did not vote for MPs who did not back him. Wether it would have been right for the country is a different question. The answer to that is we simply don't know, and again it is down to the extreme opposing views of the man and the party. For labour to stand any chance of gaining lost ground back, they need a strong leader with bite who listens to both their MPs and the electorate, I don't think Kier is that man. Boris as our current PM is a buffoon and we know it. He is a likeable buffoon at that, but he is still a buffoon, and while we are seeing "Sleaze" coming back to bite the Tories butt, he has still delivered on his election pledges. As a result he is safe for a few years yet.

Personally I think it is a shame Labour lost John Smith. I remain firm of the belief he was the best prime minister Labour never had and had he not died and the mantle taken up by Tony Blair I believed we would have seen a completely different political position to what we have now.

 

[takno]

Personally I think it is a shame Labour lost John Smith. I remain firm of the belief he was the best prime minister Labour never had and had he not died and the mantle taken up by Tony Blair I believed we would have seen a completely different political position to what we have now

I've never understood the John Smith worship tbh. To my mind he was a bland autocrat with centrist economic views clinging to the coat-tails of a more dynamic leader. Basically Gordon Brown but 10-15 years earlier

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Not a worship thing so much but at the position the parties were in at the time in the early 1990s John Smith was showing a strong and United opposition which is what we need now. Labour is currently lacking in anything strong or United.

 

[Domh245]

Absolutely. Divided parties don't win elections.

The problems hark back to Tory Blair taking the party line in completely the different direction then following him as party leader with Jeremy Corbyn The extremities of their party lines couldn't be any more chalk and cheese if they tried and as long as you have blairites and corbynistas within the party then long will it stay divided. Corbyn might have been successful if his party members backed him as much as the electorate did but people did not vote for MPs who did not back him. Wether it would have been right for the country is a different question. The answer to that is we simply don't know, and again it is down to the extreme opposing views of the man and the party. For labour to stand any chance of gaining lost ground back, they need a strong leader with bite who listens to both their MPs and the electorate, I don't think Kier is that man. Boris as our current PM is a buffoon and we know it. He is a likeable buffoon at that, but he is still a buffoon, and while we are seeing "Sleaze" coming back to bite the Tories butt, he has still delivered on his election pledges. As a result he is safe for a few years yet.

Personally I think it is a shame Labour lost John Smith. I remain firm of the belief he was the best prime minister Labour never had and had he not died and the mantle taken up by Tony Blair I believed we would have seen a completely different political position to what we have now.

A united and "ideologically pure" party is useless unless they're electable though. Blair is one of 4 Labour leaders (if you include Ramsay McDonald) who've won ever a general election, was the first in almost a quarter of a century, and I fear with the situation the only one in the previous half a century.

 

[nlogax]

Absolute fustercluck by Labour there. What would be the Boris Johnson equivalent of Trump saying he could walk down 5th Ave, shoot someone and not lose voters?

Wallpaper certainly doesn't seem to matter to anyone, that's for sure.

 

[Typhoon]

Not a worship thing so much but at the position the parties were in at the time in the early 1990s John Smith was showing a strong and United opposition which is what we need now. Labour is currently lacking in anything strong or United.

True, he united the party because, for the first time in years it could see a glimpse of power, the Tories were divided thanks to 'The B@$t@rd$'. I also think he would have won in '97 (almost leader would) but with a (much) smaller majority. Power seemed to go to some of Blair's ministers' heads and, crucially, they lost sight of who'd got them where they were. True, they put through some excellent legislation, but too much time was spent playing to middle England - wasn't it Worcester Woman? A 30-40 seat majority is fine, it keeps some of the potential rebels loyal but also keeps the government more focused.

The Hartlepool by-election? What has Labour ever done for Hartlepool - besides the gift of Peter Mandelson? Revenge is a dish best served cold!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

It is interesting how the labour red wall of the north has lost more bricks. With Durham still to declare I know many people feel Durham County Council has delivered little promises while under labour control so won't be surprised if further control is lost. The perception that the redevelopment of Spennymoor town centre, Bishop.Aucklands leisure projects long talked about for many years now sees shovels in the ground under Dehenna Davison's watch will only add to the feeling locally that the Tories seem to be getting stuff done where labour dont seem to bother, especially where many other development schemes under Labour such as Ferryhills Dean Bank and Ferryhill Station replacement housing developments seem to keep stalling or canned due to running out of money

 

[Purple Orange]

It is interesting how the labour red wall of the north has lost more bricks. With Durham still to declare I know many people feel Durham County Council has delivered little promises while under labour control so won't be surprised if further control is lost. The perception that the redevelopment of Spennymoor town centre, Bishop.Aucklands leisure projects long talked about for many years now sees shovels in the ground under Dehenna Davison's watch will only add to the feeling locally that the Tories seem to be getting stuff done where labour dont seem to bother, especially where many other development schemes under Labour such as Ferryhills Dean Bank and Ferryhill Station replacement housing developments seem to keep stalling or canned due to running out of money

I doubt those projects will change under any administration. Perhaps the only aspect will be if a Tory government opts to send additional resources to Tory councils, which is hardly surprising.

 

[DarloRich]

Wallpaper certainly doesn't seem to matter to anyone, that's for sure.

Because it is represented that way and not as what it really is: Corruption!