W/S down to 3 a day from December

[merlodlliw]

----- Original Message -----
From: Seona Shuttleworth
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 12:49 PM
Subject: Wrexham and Shropshire: Changes to Train Services

Press Release

2 November 2010


Wrexham and Shropshire : Changes to Train Services

With effect from Sunday 12th December, Wrexham & Shropshire will be making changes to its timetable. Two off peak services each way will be combined and the company will move from four to three services direct to London Marylebone.

After analysing customer travel patterns, Wrexham & Shropshire have determined that several off peak services are too lightly-used to run profitably. The decision has been taken to combine the two least used weekday off peak services and run one less service in each direction per day. Saturday will similarly be reduced from four to three trains in each direction.

Wrexham & Shropshire is an innovative local train operator receiving no subsidy from the Government. The provision of services and profitability of the company is based directly on fares received by passengers.

Andy Hamilton, Managing Director at Wrexham & Shropshire, said: “Our unique position as a local train operator working without subsidy means that our viability is directly affected by passenger numbers. We have several trains that are not being used sufficiently to justify continuing to run them.

“We are passionately committed to the Wrexham & Shropshire business running a direct service from Wrexham to London Marylebone. The change will not affect travel for over 70% of our passengers and will allow us to focus our resources on growing our business where demand is greatest. We know that some customers will be inconvenienced, and for that we apologise.

“Our people take immense pride in the customer service that they deliver and they will continue to provide the award winning travel experience that has seen us achieve 99% customer satisfaction; the highest ever for any train company in this country.”

The changes are as follows

Wrexham to London Marylebone
The 11.27 and 15.25 trains will be replaced by a service at 13.28 arriving in London at 17.30.

London Marylebone to Wrexham
The 07.20 and 11.20 trains will be replaced by a service at 09.20 arriving in Wrexham at 13.20.

Passengers with concerns or additional queries should contact the customer service team on 0845 260 5200.


Ends

Press enquiries:
For further information please contact the Wrexham & Shropshire press office on 0207 333 3139 or [email protected]
After 18.00 please call 07535 963 534

NOTES FOR EDITORS
For further information on Wrexham & Shropshire, including timetables and details of great value fares, visit: www.wrexhamandshropshire.co.uk
...............................................................................................................................................................................................................
The new timings are in the All Wales Franchise timetable Number 1 (Dec/May 2011) which went live within the past few days on the web. I am sure some
W/S Staff members who contribute on Rail Forums will update us on this change. M

 

[MCR247]

Really? That messes up my plan to change from the sleeper to the WSMR morning train

 

[ukrob]

The changes are as follows

Wrexham to London Marylebone
The 11.27 and 15.25 trains will be replaced by a service at 13.28 arriving in London at 17.30.

London Marylebone to Wrexham
The 07.20 and 11.20 trains will be replaced by a service at 09.20 arriving in Wrexham at 13.20.

That is very tight for such a long distance service IF it is the same set?

I still think WSMR will be gone within a few years.

 

[Pumbaa]

That is very tight for such a long distance service IF it is the same set?

I still think WSMR will be gone within a few years.

Just in time for Chiltern LHCS to start if my sums are correct

 

[ukrob]

Just in time for Chiltern LHCS to start if my sums are correct

Pretty much

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It is sad: it looked so good for them at the start, but in about 222 standard timetable periods, they had about 8 different timetables, didn’t they?

I think it would be sad for them to go, if VT would have followed through their Euston-Shrewsbury proposal, WSMR would have gone. Sadly now, it is looking like a question of when not if. It might not happen immediately, but losing 40% of weekday train services over 2-3 years in existence isn't good. Sorry.

 

[sprinterguy]

That is very tight for such a long distance service IF it is the same set?

The current turnaround times at Wrexham are also very tight, and they work just fine.

It does seem that this service reduction dovetails nicely with the start of Chiltern's loco hauled services.

I'm disappointed to hear about this service reduction, clearly Wrexham and Shropshire's off peak trains aren't faring so well. At least the peak trains that I tend to travel on are generally well filled.

This has further persuaded me to take the Wrexham and Shropshire trip I was tentatively planning for next Thursday!

 

[merlodlliw]

That is very tight for such a long distance service IF it is the same set?

I still think WSMR will be gone within a few years.

It must be the same set, the other two ex Wrexham 0512. & 0725,
in all due respect some on these forums forecast they would be gone last year, for their employees sake I hope they carry on.

 

[Failed Unit]

That is very tight for such a long distance service IF it is the same set?

I still think WSMR will be gone within a few years.

Unless of course they can survive for the gold of the end of Virgin's monopoly on the WCML. Although if they do they will be stuck on the slow lines so I am not sure if Euston will be the new destination over Marylebone. A know the 67's and Mk3's are both capable of 125mph, but I am right in saying they are not allowed to do so?

 

[YorkshireBear]

shame, what is making them not profitable anymore? any ideas

 

[tbtc]

Five trains a day down to four trains a day...

...four trains a day down to three trains a day...

...but if WMSR are struggling then how on earth are GC maintaining their service? Or is it just that WMSR have a business-minded owner with a better use for the stock?

Shame in a way for WMSR because the service is clearly at the mercy of demand at Chiltern, and the 67/ coaches can clearly earn a lot more money doing more trips there instead.

 

[ukrob]

Unless of course they can survive for the gold of the end of Virgin's monopoly on the WCML. Although if they do they will be stuck on the slow lines so I am not sure if Euston will be the new destination over Marylebone. A know the 67's and Mk3's are both capable of 125mph, but I am right in saying they are not allowed to do so?

Aside from if the stock can or not, there is no track they can get to that speed on is there? Even if they used the WCML they would be limited to 110.

 

[Failed Unit]

Five trains a day down to four trains a day...

...four trains a day down to three trains a day...

...but if WMSR are struggling then how on earth are GC maintaining their service? Or is it just that WMSR have a business-minded owner with a better use for the stock?

Shame in a way for WMSR because the service is clearly at the mercy of demand at Chiltern, and the 67/ coaches can clearly earn a lot more money doing more trips there instead.

Revenue from London - York & London - Doncaster
WMSR Don't have a major flow to steal revenue from as Virgin are protected

 

[tbtc]

shame, what is making them not profitable anymore? any ideas

1. What was making them profitable in the first place?
2. It looks more a case of Chiltern being where the money is, and if big Chiltern need to pinch stock and paths from little WMSR then thats the way the hierarchy works at DB

Really though, the flows on WMSR (like any open access) are primarily people heading to London in the morning and away from London in the afternoon (not a lot of demand for Londoners to have a day out in Wrexham). This further cut to WMSR consolidates the service around where the demand is, it seems quite realistic to me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Revenue from London - York & London - Doncaster
WMSR Don't have a major flow to steal revenue from as Virgin are protected

True!

If only GNER had sorted that kind of protection out in their franchise to stop someone else piggybacking their revenue like this.

 

[The Planner]

I said this would happen. Chiltern need some nice re-furbed stock and its on tap for them to have. The third path is a very recent change, WSMR were down to two from Dec before this release.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

shame, what is making them not profitable anymore? any ideas

anymore ??, Id question they ever were. The stock re-furb must have been a massive gamble.

 

[thefab444]

I wouldn't be suprised to see WSMR down to a single Wrexham - London morning trip and an evening return, probably as part of the Chiltern brand. Would certainly make more sense.

 

[tbtc]

I wouldn't be suprised to see WSMR down to a single Wrexham - London morning trip and an evening return, probably as part of the Chiltern brand. Would certainly make more sense.

Logical thing would be to strip it down to this, possibly stopping at more places in the Chilterns to provide capacity from Wycombe etc and (if you are keeping the "posh" service) use the stock on a daytime Marylebone - Stratford return - tourists will pay for the posh service

...and to think it wasn't that long ago we were talking about WMSR running the WAG Express and planning world domination!

 

[87015]

Logical thing would be to strip it down to this, possibly stopping at more places in the Chilterns to provide capacity from Wycombe etc and (if you are keeping the "posh" service) use the stock on a daytime Marylebone - Stratford return - tourists will pay for the posh service

...and to think it wasn't that long ago we were talking about WMSR running the WAG Express and planning world domination!

One train a day won't really work traincrew wise, or probably with stock efficiency, or it'll be very inefficient if it does.

Be a big shame if the Wrexham crews were out of a job, they take some beating.

 

[ainsworth74]

So...

Shall we get a pool going as to when WSMR is going to cease trading?

*hides*

 

[tbtc]

One train a day won't really work traincrew wise, or probably with stock efficiency, or it'll be very inefficient if it does.

Be a big shame if the Wrexham crews were out of a job, they take some beating.

Now it's all one big company there's no reason why WMSR services aren't provided by ATW/ Chiltern staff, or WMSR staff work ATW/Chiltern duties too

 

[Gareth Marston]

From Wrexham and Shropshire MD Andy Hamilton this evening:

The 2 early UP and 2 late afternoon/evening DOWN trains are the revenue earners, others weren't.
Spare WSMR set and crew will be on loan to Chiltern whilst they have their DMU fleet refurbished.
All gets revisited in May 2012 when Virgins sweatheart deal goes.

 

[daikilo]

1. What was making them profitable in the first place?
2. It looks more a case of Chiltern being where the money is, and if big Chiltern need to pinch stock and paths from little WMSR then thats the way the hierarchy works at DB

Really though, the flows on WMSR (like any open access) are primarily people heading to London in the morning and away from London in the afternoon (not a lot of demand for Londoners to have a day out in Wrexham). This further cut to WMSR consolidates the service around where the demand is, it seems quite realistic to me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

0920 is probably a better departure time from London to capture leisure traffic as it matches typical hotel departure times and gives a full afternoon in Wales, and the corollary for the return. And it can use the stock off first Wrexham.

I suspect the problem was the profitability of the diagramme leaving London at 0720. There may well be better margin generators for the entire operation of this set within the DB group.

 

[tbtc]

I suspect the problem was the profitability of the diagramme leaving London at 0720. There may well be better margin generators for the entire operation of this set within the DB group.

Given the crowds on most four car Voyagers (run by DB), I think this is a safe assumption

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The thing WSMR did was trey to provide an excellent service on such a where they wouldn't make much profit. The flat First Class fares, and dead cheap Standard tickets, refurbs, catering, passenger onboard service etc, qand at such a high service level was such a massive gamble. it looks not to have paid off. Sad, WSMR are some of the best I ever met.

I'd say up to 2 years, and they may be in real trouble.

 

[daikilo]

From Wrexham and Shropshire MD Andy Hamilton this evening:

The 2 early UP and 2 late afternoon/evening DOWN trains are the revenue earners, others weren't.
Spare WSMR set and crew will be on loan to Chiltern whilst they have their DMU fleet refurbished.
All gets revisited in May 2012 when Virgins sweatheart deal goes.

Well, nothing like a stake in the ground to establish a reference. Dream on.

 

[The Planner]

If the 2 earlies and lates were the only money earners, why put the third on ?

 

[daikilo]

If the 2 earlies and lates were the only money earners, why put the third on ?

Market presence (remember errors with Beeching maths)? Coz they won't lose any significant money? Nothing better to do with set in the new timings? Value of revenue sharing system?

The Planner, I hope your question was "tongue in cheek".

 

[TheWalrus]

Looks like this Andy Hamilton has the right idea. They merged 2 lighter loaded services right in between the former services. This is the best way to satisfy passengers who formerly used the 2 services. This is business sense, and common sense. Why run a train if not enough people use it? Exactly why I hate SLCs!

 

[tbtc]

Longer term, what do you reckon WMSR will be like?

Option One: As now
Option Two: Reduced to one train a day doing the full journey
Option Three: slowed down to cover Chiltern services from Solihull/ Leamington/ Warwick etc
Option Four: Withdrawn
Option Five: A compromise which keeps a daily Wrexham service, and uses the stock during the rest of the day to provide the Aberytwyth service ATW wanted to run. The timings would work so that the morning arrival into London provides a "tourist friendly" departure for the Welsh coast, and a mid-morning departure for tourists heading back to London. Only trouble is it'd have to be an ERMTS 158 and one unit won't be able to work all duties (so the morning 158 from Wrexham would go on to spend the afternoon on Cambrian duties, and a morning Cambrian 158 would end up at Wrexham in the evening):

Wrexham......05.10
Aberystwyth..............10.07
Shrewsbury...05.52....12.07
Marylebone...08.57....15.15

Marylebone..09.33...16.30
Shrewsbury..12.40...19.34
Aberystwyth..14.40
Wrexham...............20.23

 

[The Planner]

I sometimes wonder who you speak to tbtc as Option 5 is incredibly likely in my opinion. Arriva have more clout in the DB deal than a lot imagine I supect and I wouldnt be suprised if they pushed the Aber idea again (It has never been dead in the water in their eyes). They could probably stitch the paths south of Brum Int together with a bit of work.