• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Is it too hard for a visitor to buy an Oyster card when arriving London for the first time?

Status
Not open for further replies.

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
4,327
Location
Cricklewood
I was shocked that we can't even buy an Oyster card at a main entry port to London (Clapham Junction), that I need to exit the station first, walk to the street, and find a convenience store to buy it. The machines in the station do not sell Oyster card, neither does the ticket office.

It seems that it's a huge inconvenience to visitors visiting London by train. I know that London Underground machines sell them, but Clapham Junction isn't connected to the underground.

Clapham Junction is the most used railway station in the whole of Great Britain, but it doesn't even sell an Oyster card! Imagine if someone visiting London enters it using a small station not connected to the underground and need to connect to a bus for the final destination, then he's doomed, as London Buses don't even accept cash.

Why doesn't the machines in the Oyster area sell Oyster cards?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,539
Location
Redcar
How many people don't have a contactless bank card these days? Because I'd think most visitors would just use one of them...
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
How many people don't have a contactless bank card these days? Because I'd think most visitors would just use one of them...
Americans might run into trouble, because their banking system is ridiculously prehistoric, but I can't imagine it's an issue for anyone else.
 

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,151
The number of visitors who:
  • require an Oyster card as opposed to Contactless, and
  • cannot plan in advance of travel to obtain a Visitor Oyster, and
  • first arrive at a location where none of the following is available/nearby/open:
    • TfL Visitor Centre;
    • Oyster shop;
    • London Underground station;
is incredibly small. TfL cannot cater for every single person's need.
 

CyrusWuff

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2013
Messages
3,944
Location
London
Clapham Junction is the most used railway station in the whole of Great Britain, but it doesn't even sell an Oyster card!
Not even close. Clapham Junction was 16th in 2019-20, and beaten by most London terminals (except Cannon Street, Fenchurch Street and Marylebone), Birmingham New Street, Stratford, Glasgow Central, Manchester Piccadilly, Leeds and Highbury & Islington.
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
Not even close. Clapham Junction was 16th in 2019-20, and beaten by most London terminals (except Cannon Street, Fenchurch Street and Marylebone), Birmingham New Street, Stratford, Glasgow Central, Manchester Piccadilly, Leeds and Highbury & Islington.
Depends how you measure it - it's the busiest in terms of number of trains serving it.
 

boiledbeans2

Member
Joined
15 Oct 2020
Messages
498
Location
UK
Depends how you measure it - it's the busiest in terms of number of trains serving it.

It seems in the past year or so, they removed a big sign on Clapham Junction's platform - "Britain's busiest station" or something like that. Not sure why though.

Anyway, to respond to the OP. I think pre-Covid it was fine. The first time I visited London 3 years ago, I bought an Oyster card at a TfL visitor centre. They gave a free TfL card holder along with the Oyster card. I think most of the visitor centres are now closed because of Covid.

Most importantly, the Oyster card can be bought at Heathrow as well as Gatwick.

As mentioned by the other posters, Clapham isn't a first port of call. If they are coming via Clapham on NR and wish to travel around London, they would most likely have a day travelcard paper ticket so would have no use for Oyster.
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
4,327
Location
Cricklewood
How many people don't have a contactless bank card these days? Because I'd think most visitors would just use one of them...
Contactless bank cards have only become popular in these few years only. People who have earlier bank cards may not have contactless on it.

As mentioned by the other posters, Clapham isn't a first port of call. If they are coming via Clapham on NR and wish to travel around London, they would most likely have a day travelcard paper ticket so would have no use for Oyster.

Most likely having a day travelcard paper ticket? I've heard that travelcard price is more expensive than Oyster caps so I avoided one right from the beginning.
 
Last edited:

plugwash

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2015
Messages
1,549
Separate travelcards are more expensive than oyster capping, but outboundry travelcards are often competitive compared to the cost of a seperate rail ticket and daily cap.
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
4,327
Location
Cricklewood
How many international visitors will use Clapham Junction as their first station? I think you're trolling again.

I didn't specify international. People living in other parts of the UK do visit London.

Separate travelcards are more expensive than oyster capping, but outboundry travelcards are often competitive compared to the cost of a seperate rail ticket and daily cap.
It isn't compatible with advanced fares though. Also it won't work on an overnight trip as well.
 

096igb

Member
Joined
11 Aug 2021
Messages
11
Location
Dundee
The National Rail and Tube Map indicates that only National Rail and London Overground use Clapham Junction.

On that basis, why should a TOC ticket vending machine sell a competitor product?

I am sure that visitors, regardless of their origin, can plan ahead and purchase an Oyster card online. Maybe their TOC's smartcard can provide the capability they require or a paper ticket.

I was planning on visiting London this year but won't now until next year but my Oyster card is happy waiting at home. It was delivered by mail. I'll add my Railcard when I get to my nearest station that can

If you were using the London Overground, I am sure the ticket vending machine would sell a single ticket until you could buy an Oyster card if you didn't want to use Contactless.
 
Last edited:

skyhigh

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,219
I didn't specify international. People living in other parts of the UK do visit London.
How many visitors to London from inside the UK use Clapham Junction as their first station then?
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
6,643
Location
Northern England
How many visitors to London from inside the UK use Clapham Junction as their first station then?
I'd imagine very few, because if they are on a London-bound train through CLJ then it's also heading to a London terminus (i.e. Waterloo or Victoria), and both Waterloo and Victoria are far more convenient for continuing one's journey to whatever part of central London.
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
4,327
Location
Cricklewood
I'd imagine very few, because if they are on a London-bound train through CLJ then it's also heading to a London terminus (i.e. Waterloo or Victoria), and both Waterloo and Victoria are far more convenient for continuing one's journey to whatever part of central London.
This now makes me wonder. My first place of visiting London was Tooting Commons in zone 3 and that would be pointless to enter central London. I was expecting most visitors who intend to visit the outer regions of London getting off the train before it arrives a London terminal so there should be significant visitor traffic to warrant Oyster sale.

I'll be surprised if the number of first-time visitors to London, who lives in the UK and visit the outer zones before entering the city centre, is so small.
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
17,866
Location
Airedale
Contactless bank cards have only become popular in these few years only. People who have earlier bank cards may not have contactless on it.
All the cards I have expire in 3-4 years from issue, and contactless has been around for considerably longer than that.
This now makes me wonder. My first place of visiting London was Tooting Commons in zone 3 and that would be pointless to enter central London.
Agreed. But most people heading into the London suburbs would book through to destination anyway. It will be a very small subset who
(1) don't book through
(2) change onto another NR service within the Zones
(3) intend immediately to do multiple journeys within London
(4) need to use Oyster rather than contactless - eg Railcard holders
(5) are hugely inconvenienced by having to walk to a convenience store round the corner.

You could raise the matter with TfL, of course.
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
4,327
Location
Cricklewood
All the cards I have expire in 3-4 years from issue, and contactless has been around for considerably longer than that.
The credit cards I have are all valid for 5 years, and some debit cards are valid for 10 years.

Agreed. But most people heading into the London suburbs would book through to destination anyway. It will be a very small subset who
(1) don't book through
(2) change onto another NR service within the Zones
(3) intend immediately to do multiple journeys within London
(4) need to use Oyster rather than contactless - eg Railcard holders
(5) are hugely inconvenienced by having to walk to a convenience store round the corner.

You could raise the matter with TfL, of course.
So is my use case (having to transfer to a London Bus to the suburb) very rare? And is there a convenience store which sells Oyster near every station in the zones if there are no TfL stations nearby? A visitor will be doomed if his intention is to use a London Bus to visit the suburb but he has no contactless and nowhere to buy an Oyster near his entry station into London, especially if he is transferring at a smaller zone 4/5/6 station instead of somewhere as busy as Clapham Junction where I can expect a convenience store on a street.
 

JamesT

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2015
Messages
2,640
The credit cards I have are all valid for 5 years, and some debit cards are valid for 10 years.

The banks in this country started replacing cards with contactless by default when they expired in 2013/2014. By this point, you would have had to deliberately refused a contactless card not to have one.
TfL introduced contactless payments in 2014, at which point it was reckoned half of Londoners already had one.

So is my use case (having to transfer to a London Bus to the suburb) very rare? And is there a convenience store which sells Oyster near every station in the zones if there are no TfL stations nearby? A visitor will be doomed if his intention is to use a London Bus to visit the suburb but he has no contactless and nowhere to buy an Oyster near his entry station into London, especially if he is transferring at a smaller zone 4/5/6 station instead of somewhere as busy as Clapham Junction where I can expect a convenience store on a street.

Assuming we’re talking overseas visitors, they can buy a Visitor Oyster online and have it delivered to their address before they set off. If you’re planning activities like buses to the suburbs (which don’t sound particularly touristy), presumably you’ll have done at least that much research in advance.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,433
Location
Yorkshire
The credit cards I have are all valid for 5 years....
Contactless has been mainstream for a lot longer than that

and some debit cards are valid for 10 years.
This must be incredibly rare.

A visitor will be doomed if his intention is to use a London Bus to visit the suburb but he has no contactless and nowhere to buy an Oyster near his entry station into London...
They could buy a Travelcard.

I suspect most people not using PAYG who would be connecting onto buses at Clapham Jn would already be in possession of a Travelcard.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
15,982
Location
0036
Clapham Junction is not “a main entry port to London”.

Contactless cards have been around for 14 years; the amount of people with a non-contactless card is vanishingly small.

There are four Oyster Ticket Stops within a 5 minute walk of the southern entrance to Clapham Junction and two for the northern entrance.

This is the very definition of a non-problem.

Depends how you measure it - it's the busiest in terms of number of trains serving it.
I believe it’s also busiest in terms of number of passenger changes.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
I don’t know anyone in this country who doesn’t have a contactless bank card.

My Mum doesn't, but she uses alternatives.like Samsung Pay.

The other obvious example are the homeless, or other very low income people.

.

This is the very definition of a non-problem.

Or complaining a situation isn't perfect, when there is no real justifiable need for it to be.
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
11,945
Location
UK
I do think it's a reasonable point in a way - public transport in London is heavily geared towards Oyster and contactless, but not everyone will necessary have the latter, and it's not possible to get an Oyster card at every station.

In those circumstances it does seem a little unfair to charge extra for the luxury of using paper tickets. I think that a condition of allowing cheaper paper tickets to be scrapped should have been that Oyster cards must be sold at all stations.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,265
I was shocked that we can't even buy an Oyster card at a main entry port to London (Clapham Junction), that I need to exit the station first, walk to the street, and find a convenience store to buy it. The machines in the station do not sell Oyster card, neither does the ticket office.
Sorry, but assuming “busy” at Clapham Jn means its some sort of gateway for first time visitors to London is just being ridiculous.
 

eoff

Member
Joined
15 Aug 2020
Messages
441
Location
East Lothian
I'm pretty sure I purchased my Oyster card at Heathrow.

First problem, T5 'underground' did not sell them but let me travel free on the service to T123 stop.
The next station said they could not sell the card and put a Railcard discount on it. But they could fix this if I filled in the form as that would tie the card to me, which I did. This was quite some time ago, before contactless.
I did not get the visitor card as that had a non-refundable charge.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
I'm pretty sure I purchased my Oyster card at Heathrow.

First problem, T5 'underground' did not sell them but let me travel free on the service to T123 stop.

T5 station is combined and managed by Heathrow Express. Though I'm fairly sure there is a TfL Visitor Centre type place in T5 arrivals (though probably easy to walk past without spotting it)
 

Djgr

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
1,638
I think a more interesting exercise is trying to come up with scenarios where Clapham Junction is ever the entry point to London. (I know Balham is the Gateway to the South)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top