Best and Worst Major Interchange Stations

[xotGD]

May I suggest a visit to an optician? (Not my image but came up in the first hit on a well-known search engine.)

[Edit: To comply with forum etiquette, attached image shows one of the massive Blue Lounge signs and internationally recognised pictograms indicating that it is a passenger waiting area. This just one example of the signage and way finding at New Street.]

A sign at right angles to the direction you would be looking if walking between platforms. The signage for the coffee shop is more obvious. And useful. At least the sign with the platform number is visible.

 

[Nottingham59]

the massive Blue Lounge signs

So massive in fact that there is plenty of room to add the words "... For Platforms 1A-5A". That would fix a lot of the problems at New Street for unknowing interchange passengers.

 

[CentralTrainer]

So massive in fact that there is plenty of room to add the words "... For Platforms 1A-5A". That would fix a lot of the problems at New Street for unknowing interchange passengers.

They list the Lounge colour on the bottom of the relevant screen on the main large departures boards

Nothing wrong with Birmingham New Street if you know how to read, look at signs and generally engage the brain.

 

[Class800]

I would politely disagree. As someone who has travelled extensively by train in the UK, I do find New Street confusing and am sure others may

 

[Nottingham59]

They list the Lounge colour on the bottom of the relevant screen on the main large departures boards

Yeah, but this thread is about interchange passengers. They don't list the lounge colour on the Departures Screens at platform level when you get off your train and try to find your way to Platform 4C or whatever.

Nothing wrong with Birmingham New Street

The fact that Cross-County train managers have to tell interchange passengers how to navigate the station, as has been explained up thread, is in my mind very strong evidence that the signage is deficient.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Yeah, but this thread is about interchange passengers. They don't list the lounge colour on the Departures Screens at platform level when you get off your train and try to find your way to Platform 4C or whatever.


The fact that Cross-County train managers have to tell interchange passengers how to navigate the station, as has been explained up thread, is in my mind very strong evidence that the signage is deficient.

[Groans.]
Well, if the kind, helpful and professional CrossCountry train managers have already advised passengers to (only) interchange at the B bridge/Red Lounge there should be no need to talk about the Blue Lounge or Green Lounge as said pax will already be heading to an area from which all platforms, including 4C, are readily accessible by escalators and lifts (subject to relatively minor qualification regarding some steps for P1 and P12 as noted previously).

The basic aim is to encourage interchange passengers to use the B bridge/Red Lounge because that is platform change-proof.

This all seems just so blindingly obvious to me!

 

[Kilopylae]

New Street is obviously a shower. The coloured lounges are unnecessary; the signage and furniture in all of them is blue and steel (one would expect the signs for the yellow lounge to be yellow, not blue with a yellow pictogram); and the glass walls all over the concourse level make it a dangerous game to locate your platform elevator and just start walking towards it. Thank god I have the XC Manchester branch to Plymouth branch change memorised.

I would contend that Clapham Junction, however, is in an even worse state. It's dirty, long-winded, overcrowded, and the staff are unbelievably rude.

Dishonorable mentions for East Croydon, where the utter dearth of passenger information threatens to render its incredibly simple layout confusing, and London Paddington, where changing from a fast train to a slow train or trying to use the bike pen means walking all the way around the Heathrow Express barriers (past the Bakerloo line back entrance) and where the infamous 'two Circle lines' thing with the Tube seems designed to ruin tourists' days.

I'll admit that I've got lost at Stratford once or twice, but that was from ignoring the way-finding signage. Newport is easy, albeit a horrible walk with luggage. Ipswich and Hereford are both grotty and need a refurb.

 

[CentralTrainer]

[Groans.]
Well, if the kind, helpful and professional CrossCountry train managers have already advised passengers to (only) interchange at the B bridge/Red Lounge there should be no need to talk about the Blue Lounge or Green Lounge as said pax will already be heading to an area from which all platforms, including 4C, are readily accessible by escalators and lifts (subject to relatively minor qualification regarding some steps for P1 and P12 as noted previously).

The basic aim is to encourage interchange passengers to use the B bridge/Red Lounge because that is platform change-proof.

This all seems just so blindingly obvious to me!

Yep - they’ve even got nice clear posters up to spoon feed the information to some people who can’t think for themselves or use their own common sense.

(Poster explaining the situation attached)

 

[coppercapped]

In this thread there are many complaints about poor design of the interchanges - mainly at the larger stations so maybe it is complexity which stumps the posters - but few suggestions about alterations which would ease the lot of the average RailUK user.

I am not familiar with Stratford station on the Great Eastern nor with the Manchester stations, but I have used New Street, Paddington, Temple Meads and Clapham Junction quite frequently. Leaving Paddington aside as I use it for most of my trips to London and know it well having first been there around 195something, I have never found any difficulty in using any of them - I have never got lost in New Street nor missed my connection there. One can hark back to the late 1950s, early 1960s when I first used the station and was surprised to discover that it was in fact two parallel stations with a road between them. Then it was a real dump: bomb damaged, unloved, dirty and one really did have to go through ticket barriers to change trains.

Regarding Paddington in particular... I am finding it difficult to understand why one would want to change between a fast train, which I assume has just arrived, to a slow train which retraces the route of the train which has just arrived. Unless one wants any of the stations out to about West Drayton it is probably quicker to change at Reading to a Crossrail train or one of the Didcot - Paddington semi-fasts. In total there are four every hour.

Anyway, as soon as Crossrail is opened interchange from 'fast' trains will be simple: walk towards the buffer stops, pass the ticket barrier, turn right through the arches and take the escalators down. One can make the decision to travel east or west when one has reached the platform. Or is that too complicated?

There are two Paddington bike pens, one is on the site of the old taxi road and the other between Platforms 10 and 11. They are quite large, where else should they be sited? Putting one at the ends of the platforms on the circulating area (on the way to 'The Lawn') will not play well although it is in easy reach for the cyclists - whom I always assumed were fit and a bit of extra walking wouldn't hurt - it would rather screw things up for the majority of passengers who simply want to get to the Underground entrance or leave the building.

The bike pen is also easily reached from the overbridge at the western end of the platforms - this connects all the platforms and these to the taxi rank and Hammersmith and City line. Unfortunately, apart from the lift to Platform 1, only with stairs. But cyclists are tough...

Edit: Clarified that there are two bike pens.

 

[xotGD]

Yep - they’ve even got nice clear posters up to spoon feed the information to some people who can’t think for themselves or use their own common sense.

(Poster explaining the situation attached)

The visuals on that graphic give the impression that you only have access to the B platforms.

Having to read a paragraph of instructions on how to go about changing platforms shows that there is a problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because they have no idea that there are two separate concourses. They get off their train, go up the stairs/escalator to the concourse and find a glass screen preventing them reaching the platform they need for their next train.

So then they go to the gateline, pass it, pass the other one and go for their train. I've done it loads of times as the A end tends to be quieter so it can actually be quicker, and the bogs are less crowded.

Passing a gateline to interchange is really not a problem, there are plenty of stations where this is easier than trying to avoid it, such as between Manchester Piccadilly main trainshed platforms.

And the notion that climbing a flight of stairs is somehow wrong. I'm sorry, but how?

It's quicker to pass two gatelines with your ticket in hand than to faff about going up and down another set of stairs. Passing gatelines close to doesn't require breaking stride if you've done it before, and New St's are set up to accept anything even vaguely plausible and do not retain any tickets (that I've noticed).

 

[Western Sunset]

The visuals on that graphic give the impression that you only have access to the B platforms.

Having to read a paragraph of instructions on how to go about changing platforms shows that there is a problem.

I've approached this with an open mind, but am struggling with the use of the word "lounge". If I only want to change platforms, why would I need to go into a lounge? What's wrong with the words "footbridge" or "lift"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've approached this with an open mind, but am struggling with the use of the word "lounge". If I only want to change platforms, why would I need to go into a lounge? What's wrong with the words "footbridge" or "lift"?

I think they were an aborted attempt at something, e.g. possibly holding people away from the platforms as per Manc Picc P13/14 (i.e. "wait in X lounge"). They are not used on the PIS at all, so you can basically ignore them. Just follow conventional signs to numbered platforms.

 

[Western Sunset]

Thanks Bletch.
I used to live in B'ham and in my day it was up the escalator, across the footbridge and down to whichever platform one required. Simple.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I've approached this with an open mind, but am struggling with the use of the word "lounge". If I only want to change platforms, why would I need to go into a lounge? What's wrong with the words "footbridge" or "lift"?

It depends what you mean by 'only change platforms'. If you have an unavoidable 59-minute wait for your connection to Peterborough, Hereford or Welshpool would you rather stand on a fume-logged platform, hungry, thirsty and bursting for the toilet whilst getting in the way of staff and passengers joining and leaving other trains or sit in a waiting area, grab a coffee and pop to the loo in comparatively fresh air?

Extended waiting at platform level is to virtually nobody's benefit unless you are a compulsive trainspotter.

(Obviously if you are travelling to somewhere with a very frequent service, such as University, Wolverhampton or Birmingham International you can indeed go 'straight' to your next platform and get on the next train almost immediately.)

 

[Western Sunset]

I'm afraid I'd fall into your second para category.

There used to be a lot of "brutes" to sit on in my day...

 

[Djgr]

I've approached this with an open mind, but am struggling with the use of the word "lounge". If I only want to change platforms, why would I need to go into a lounge? What's wrong with the words "footbridge" or "lift"?

The lounge concept, and the inconsistent use of colours within this, needs rethinking.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The main issues with New Street aren't really the lounges specifically, it's more a combination of the fact that different exits result in a substantially different path to the different platforms and that isn't immediately obvious, but also that because of the transparent glass used, you can often see the way to the platform you want to get to but can't get to it via the most obvious way. It's just generally confusing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The lounge concept, and the inconsistent use of colours within this, needs rethinking.

The main issues with New Street aren't really the lounges specifically, it's more a combination of the fact that different exits result in a substantially different path to the different platforms and that isn't immediately obvious, but also that because of the transparent glass used, you can often see the way to the platform you want to get to but can't get to it via the most obvious way. It's just generally confusing.

Some minor signage changes would fix these. Remove the references to lounges entirely, and add clear signage by the A end gatelines saying "Platforms X-Y through ticket gates".

 

[Western Sunset]

I've just had a shufty at the Network Rail station plan of B'ham New St from the National Rail website. I'd imagine this is the first port of call for many travellers wanting to use New St who are unsure of the place.

First thing, I can't enlarge it sufficiently to read it clearly, which doesn't help.

The plan is way too complex and confusing.
There are symbols on the plan which are not on the key.
Ticket gates aren't even labelled; I'm assuming the dashed lines are those - not clear at all.
There seems to be more info on the retail side of things, rather than how a passenger would navigate the place.

Needs a rethink.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've just had a shufty at the Network Rail station plan of B'ham New St from the National Rail website. I'd imagine this is the first port of call for many travellers wanting to use New St who are unsure of the place.

You reckon? I doubt very many people even have a clue those maps exist, and would just rock up and if they get confused ask a member of staff.

 

[Djgr]

Some minor signage changes would fix these. Remove the references to lounges entirely, and add clear signage by the A end gatelines saying "Platforms X-Y through ticket gates".

I might be wrong but I don't think that there is a reference to the satellite lounge at Man Picc until you get there?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Yep - they’ve even got nice clear posters up to spoon feed the information to some people who can’t think for themselves or use their own common sense.

(Poster explaining the situation attached)

To my mind the very fact that that poster was considered necessary is pretty strong evidence of a badly designed station. How many other stations need to have special directions to explain nonintuitive, nonstandard, features of the station layout?

 

[Dr Hoo]

To my mind the very fact that that poster was considered necessary is pretty strong evidence of a badly designed station. How many other stations need to have special directions to explain nonintuitive, nonstandard, features of the station layout?

Well, most of the small, unstaffed stations along the Hope Valley Line have signs like: "This platform for trains to Manchester. Through subway [or Cross over the bridge] for trains to Sheffield." Is the poster fundamentally any different?

Even at supposedly 'exemplar' stations like Waterloo the interchange to the Underground via the 'peak subway', or entry to the former international platforms, let alone across to Waterloo East, are far from intuitive to a novice.

Is any station with 25 distinct 'platforms' (including the A, B, C variants) ever going to be 'standard'?

 

[ashkeba]

Is any station with 25 distinct 'platforms' (including the A, B, C variants) ever going to be 'standard'?

Nuremberg. I think it has platforms numbered into the 20s, with some split A-F, and three straightforward tunnels linking them, one for A and B, one for C and D, one for E and F. The main oddity is that someone decided to add a short track next to platform 1 and number it platform 30 instead of 0.

Notably, they have not put any glass walls and barriers halfway across only the A end connector, unlike Birmingham!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Well, most of the small, unstaffed stations along the Hope Valley Line have signs like: "This platform for trains to Manchester. Through subway [or Cross over the bridge] for trains to Sheffield." Is the poster fundamentally any different?

Yes, I would say the situation in Birmingham is fundamentally different. The Hope Valley signs simply tell you what platform different trains depart from. There's (as far as I'm aware) nothing misleading about how those stations are laid out, and nothing to stop people getting to the right platform once they know which platform they need.

The poster in Birmingham by contrast is there to counter the problem that the station has been designed in a way that's completely non-intuitive - tot point of being confusing/misleading to many people using it. A better analogy would be if (hypothetically) in a Hope Valley station, besides the bridge across the tracks, Network Rail had also built a fake bridge that looked for all the world like an appropriate way to cross the tracks, but actually wasn't, and then had to put signs up telling people which of the two bridges was the real one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is not like that at all, because nothing is stopping you changing platforms via the A end, and I have done it a number of times. You just pass the gate lines. There are plenty of stations, mostly termini, where changing trains will always have you pass two gate lines.

 

[Kilopylae]

To my mind the very fact that that poster was considered necessary is pretty strong evidence of a badly designed station. How many other stations need to have special directions to explain nonintuitive, nonstandard, features of the station layout?

Absolutely. And the poster is confusing in itself. It reads like an ill-tempered satire like all those jokes about "the train divides."

Well, most of the small, unstaffed stations along the Hope Valley Line have signs like: "This platform for trains to Manchester. Through subway [or Cross over the bridge] for trains to Sheffield." Is the poster fundamentally any different?

Yes, on two counts:

- Two platforms is a simple, predictable layout and those signs render further passenger information unnecessary. Even the numbers are arguably redundant. At BHM the poster exists to explain (rather than to semi-replace) the numbering system. The true multi-platform analogy to the Hope Valley line signs would be something like those posters at Stratford that associate platform numbers to destinations.

- It is incredibly complicated and it exists to explain a station layout that is incredibly complicated. There is a category difference between a poster that explains a two-platform station on a linear line, and one which seeks to help passengers navigate the messiest station in the UK.

 

[Grumbler]

It is not like that at all, because nothing is stopping you changing platforms via the A end, and I have done it a number of times. You just pass the gate lines. There are plenty of stations, mostly termini, where changing trains will always have you pass two gate lines.

Having to constantly retrieve your ticket is a complete PITA, especially for those laden with luggage.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having to constantly retrieve your ticket is a complete PITA, especially for those laden with luggage.

Then use the B end if it bothers you.

The barriers aren't closed half the time anyway.