Jordan Adam
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Yes they do only apply in England. However some operators have been keen to provide open data anyway.
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First Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and West Lothian operations)
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It's the first day of the service change to improve reliability; it seems to be going well!
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It really is strange how First are having such problems with reliability yet LCB are running punctually. Are both companies following and interpreting isolation rules differently for drivers?
Are you suggesting that one company is deliberately allowing drivers to work knowing they have covid/should be isolating? If so then I would seriously suggest you rethink.
No. Not at all. I’m genuinely asking whether First are over cautious or the other way around. Like a lot of Covid restrictions a lot of it has been based on interpretation. Not suggesting anything deliberate, just wondering why one company is having so much problems with it while another in the same area isn’t having as much issues or whether it is a wider issue than Covid.
What you have to understand is there are around 30-50 drivers that have or are in the process of jumping across to Lothian Country Bus. As I understand yes it also come down to Covid and self-isolation but I believe they are struggling to get enough drivers through their training school. The past few drivers on my LCB bus to work these past few weeks have been ex-First drivers.
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Thanks. I knew there had to be a wider issue.
There's quite a number going through Lothian's training school destined for LCB and ECB (with equal numbers that have been waiting to transfer to city making the move).
Obviously there's a limited pool of people willing to become bus drivers so naturally people will go where the money and conditions are better.
I have seen the First training bus(es) out and about and what appeared to be new starters driving the 20/63 (no uniform with a mentor-driver).
overthewater
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Last night even more journeys were axed and it seems even more have done so again again this morning, on X25 and 21.
overthewater
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It should be pointed out: They could be on different pay rate, The drivers at Bright may not know how to operate the Ticket machines? May not know the routes. it isn't that simple alas.
Then you show them how to do it, IIRC Brightbus use the exact same ticket machines as the rest of the company.
I would imagine that on a day like today, Bright Bus Tours would have been bringing in a fair bit of tourist revenue. It is, however, off-topic for this thread.
Sorry, but it's relevant. First Scotland East are cancelling essential services left right and centre due to "staff shortages" yet they seem to have no problem whatsoever finding drivers to ferry tourists around the capital. A tour bus is not essential.
I do think you're over-simplifying things here. It's not just a case of moving a driver from one part of the country to go and work in another. For starters, there are issues like route training to consider. If there is a shortage of drivers in Scotland East territory, my guess is that the people who would conduct any such training will probably be out on the road covering for those shortages.
Moving drivers from Edinburgh to Livingston is hardly a major move. It's literally half an hour down the road! I'm pretty sure drivers get moved to depots within a company all the time to cover, so it's not as difficult as people make out on here.
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cammyeaston
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Nobody said it was difficult, it's just not as easy as you make out on here.
First of all, and I do imagine that this is indeed the case, Bright Bus Tours (BBT) drivers would need to have it in their contracts that they can be moved onto service work if the requirement arises - if it isn't there, they can refuse. Also, BBT contracts may only have certain hours of work which limits the redeployment of those staff.
Secondly, as many have pointed out they would need the appropriate route training and dare I say type training on the service vehicles. This all takes time to implement.
Thirdly, First Scotland East is a commercial business and the idea of running essential services for the people's benefit went out of the window when these services were privatised - they need to make money, they need to make a profit and without said profit, the company will fold. If BBT is bringing in considerably more fare revenue than the services cancelled in the evenings then as a business (which needs money to stay afloat mind...), they're naturally going to keep the tours running.
Now, none of this is ideal - but it's just the way it is.
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Bluebirdscot66
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Bright Bus is run from Livington depot though, is it not? I’d say it’s more of a case that the drivers are seeing the conditions across the road at LCB at about £1 more per hour more appealing. Thus a mass migration of drivers to another company is hard to cover when all other depots are struggling. They may as well keep some Bright tour buses going and bringing in revenue.
I wonder if agency drivers are being used at First Livingston.
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In answer to the last bit I was speaking to a driver at the Gyle who is an agency driver that lives in London.
He said there was a few of them there - would explain the drivers I've seen without uniform only on the 20/63 as it's unusual to see any First group drivers lacking uniform or scruffily dressed.
Genuine question here.
What are the rules for commercial routes on subcontracting? Ie, if First are really struggling for capacity could they sub contract a route to a local operator? For example, could they entirely subcontract, say, the 27 to Horsburgh for a month to free up capacity (example only)? Does the Traffic Commissioner allow that?
By the way, I'm not saying they would do that, but it wasjust a thought I had. With more requirement for low floor buses for school routes, a lot more local companies have redundant buses during the day which would be compliant.
What are the rules for commercial routes on subcontracting? Ie, if First are really struggling for capacity could they sub contract a route to a local operator? For example, could they entirely subcontract, say, the 27 to Horsburgh for a month to free up capacity (example only)? Does the Traffic Commissioner allow that?
By the way, I'm not saying they would do that, but it wasjust a thought I had. With more requirement for low floor buses for school routes, a lot more local companies have redundant buses during the day which would be compliant.
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Yes agency drivers are being used, as well as guy from Larbert, Glasgow and as far afield as Aberdeen. The amount that the agency drivers are getting depends on how far the are from their home. Someone I spoke to was up from London and getting paid £19 an hour!
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Jordan Adam
Established Member
Interesting that there's some from Aberdeen given there's a shortage here too with the odd service being missed, albeit not as bad as FSE are having...
Baileygirl
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A few of BBT drivers are driving FSE services, there are less BBT duties at the moment. They did the same when the tours were paused due to lockdown. It is 0 minutes down the road as both operations are run from the same depot.
Go North East have been subcontracting to other operators to cover some of their services, albeit it’s certain journeys rather than an entire route, so it can be done. Go North West also did it recently during a long running strike.
overthewater
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Solent Blue line in Southampton contract out a whole service years ago, I cant remember which one etc. They just put in a note saying operating on behalf of....
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
It was operated by Marchants Motorways but might have been on a franchise basis rather than subcontracting.
HCT operate the m1 service in Bristol for First West of England. Abus also operated the 349 Bristol to Keynsham service and the X8 Bristol to Nailsea routes for First, the former having just finished and resumed by First.
I guess the question is what has actually changed to lead to drivers leaving First for LCB? The pay disparity has always been there, or has it widened? Or are Lothian providing incentives to jump?
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