No replacement bus available from ScotRail (11/9/21)

[Deltic1961]

Another railway meltdown tonight leaving many stranded. We were unable to secure replacement buses.

Now if I were a multi million pound business I'd have contracts in place with bus operators just in case. Good money for the bus operators and keeps customers on side.

But no. Scotrail full of excuses as usual. Not for for purpose and they wonder why customer numbers are falling.

Buy a ticket in advance but if something messes up you're on your own.

 

[mcmad]

And where were Scotrail going to magic these busses and drivers from a no notice? Or do you think they should have fleets of busses fully manned 24/7 strategically sited round the country just in case?

 

[Starmill]

And where were Scotrail going to magic these busses and drivers from a no notice? Or do you think they should have fleets of busses fully manned 24/7 strategically sited round the country just in case?

Stand-by buses are a reasonably common pre-planned thing really.

 

[Deltic1961]

It's called resilience planning. I don't work for the railway but have been let down so many times and my patience is running out whatever the fault.

They'll only let people down so many times.... I have a friend who hasn't used Scotrail since that Saturday night screw up at Waverley when thousands of rugby fans were left to fend for themselves and he had to pay a fortune for a hotel.

 

[XAM2175]

Another railway meltdown tonight leaving many stranded. We were unable to secure replacement buses.

Is tonight's problem connected to tomorrow's industrial action?

 

[notadriver]

Many 'coach' drivers are part time school bus drivers. They work Mon-Fri and many simply won't work Sundays. The excursion/tour coach drivers will, as you suggest, be far more flexible.

rail replacement work is seen as very unattractive to most coach drivers especially tour drivers.
service bus drivers are more likely to want to do the work. They tend to get paid better for it too.

 

[Goldfish62]

rail replacement work is seen as very unattractive to most coach drivers especially tour drivers.
service bus drivers are more likely to want to do the work. They tend to get paid better for it too.

Yes, it's good money compared to normal bus work and easy as long as you know where you're going!

The problem at the moment is that the general shortage of drivers means operators need to concentrate on covering local bus services so even where rail replacement work is available they may not be able to cover it.

SWR are telling passengers that their rail replacement buses may not turn up this weekend and to make their own arrangements to get a taxi instead (for which they'll be reimbursed).

 

[Robertj21a]

Yes, it's good money compared to normal bus work and easy as long as you know where you're going!

The problem at the moment is that the general shortage of drivers means operators need to concentrate on covering local bus services so even where rail replacement work is available they may not be able to cover it.

SWR are telling passengers that their rail replacement buses may not turn up this weekend and to make their own arrangements to get a taxi instead (for which they'll be reimbursed).

Quite. There's always this automatic assumption that train replacement buses/coaches, with drivers, can suddenly turn up, wherever needed, at 10 mins notice. The fact that most bus operators are short of drivers seems to just get responses on here like ' pay them a bit more' or 'they can work any day'.
What does it take for some people to realise that a bus/coach may well be available but it's no use if there's no driver [much like some trains I've attempted to use recently]

 

[InOban]

Perhaps the contracted RRBs were already committed to cover the planned closure between Falkirk /linlithgow and Edinburgh? Certainly saw at least one on the M9 yesterday.

 

[philthetube]

Another railway meltdown tonight leaving many stranded. We were unable to secure replacement buses.

Now if I were a multi million pound business I'd have contracts in place with bus operators just in case. Good money for the bus operators and keeps customers on side.

But no. Scotrail full of excuses as usual. Not for for purpose and they wonder why customer numbers are falling.

Buy a ticket in advance but if something messes up you're on your own.

Are you suggesting that a number of bus drivers sit around just in case, if so could you suggest how many and if this is not the plan let us know what you are suggesting.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Another issue is the requirement to procure PSVAR compliant vehicles (where practical for emergency replacement, and essential for planned replacement).

As an example, I know Chiltern have had vehicles from the likes of Cymru Coaches and First West of England for planned work recently.

 

[Robertj21a]

Are you suggesting that a number of bus drivers sit around just in case, if so could you suggest how many and if this is not the plan let us know what you are suggesting.

I'd like to also know how many locations he thinks would be appropriate to ensure a quick response to any request for assistance.

 

[800001]

Is tonight's problem connected to tomorrow's industrial action?

Overhead lines down affecting the low level lines through Queen Street Low level.
Queen Street telling all Edinburgh bound customers to get Linlithgow train then the preplanned replacement busses.
Dread to think what that was like with 1000s of people at the gigs in Glasgow

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stand-by buses are a reasonably common pre-planned thing really.

Even when the Marston Vale is running "properly" (ha!) the 230 reliability has been bad enough for a bus to be on standby at Bletchley just in case, so it does happen.

 

[800001]

Even when the Marston Vale is running "properly" (ha!) the 230 reliability has been bad enough for a bus to be on standby at Bletchley just in case, so it does happen.

1 bus to deal with one train, rather than enough busses for several hundred customers on a saturday night!

 

[Bletchleyite]

1 bus to deal with one train, rather than enough busses for several hundred customers on a saturday night!

Indeed. But my point was that those saying standby buses are not a viable concept are in part wrong - there are cases where it is entirely viable. Though probably indeed not at the numbers you're saying.

 

[XAM2175]

Overhead lines down affecting the low level lines through Queen Street Low level.
Queen Street telling all Edinburgh bound customers to get Linlithgow train then the preplanned replacement busses.
Dread to think what that was like with 1000s of people at the gigs in Glasgow

Thank you. I asked because the OP had originally posted their complaint in the Sunday strike thread, not because I thought there might be a connection.

 

[tbtc]

How quick were TOCs to react to the shutdown in flights after Eyjafjallajökul?

Or whenever the latest "domestic" airline collapsed (FlyBe, bmi etc), was the railway able to spring into action and provide replacement trains?

Was the railway able to rustle up hundreds of replacement trains when the 800/801s had to be taken out of service because of their dampner problems?

Or do we just accept that it's okay for the railway to be slow/ inefficient/ bureaucratic but we expect large numbers of buses/coaches to be rushed into action to bail out the railway?

(and this is at a time when a number of bus services are having to be cut because there aren't enough drivers, as has been stated above)

Even when the Marston Vale is running "properly" (ha!) the 230 reliability has been bad enough for a bus to be on standby at Bletchley just in case, so it does happen.

That's completely different though - it's one thing to arrange a long term"hot spare" with a coach company, but arranging large numbers of coaches at very short notice on a Saturday night (e.g. because the wires suddenly go down)

Unless you're suggesting that TOCs should have an agreement with coach companies to provide dozens of coaches at each city that they serve at ten minutes notice?

Or maybe every major station should have one spare coach sitting around with a driver "just in case", like the "hot spare" Voyager that XC have at New Street? But I guess one coach wouldn't be much use even if just one train is cancelled (given that a double decker only has the same capacity as one carriage), so we'd have to have several... where are these going to park at each station? Do we close station car parks to accommodate all of these "hot spare" coaches?

 

[randyrippley]

There must be plenty of spare coaches knocking around, for instance much of the Shearings fleet must still be lying around with dealers, unused, awaiting sale.
It just needs a contract setting up to make sure the storage conditions are warm.
Only problem is finding drivers. But surely that's a simple enough task for existing train drivers and guards to learn? And maybe signalling staff as well. Far better to keep highly paid staff working than sending them home during a stoppage

(This is in speculative ideas isn't it?)

 

[6Gman]

The Daily Mail story writes itself:

You pay for railway coaches used only once in 8 weeks!

As rail fares mount and the government pours billions into HS2 your Daily Mail has discovered that millions are being spent on standby coaches some of which have not carried a passenger for up to eight weeks.

A driver, who asked not to be named, said "I've been doing this work for five weeks and never turned a wheel. Talk about money for old rope".

There must be plenty of spare coaches knocking around, for instance much of the Shearings fleet must still be lying around with dealers, unused, awaiting sale.
It just needs a contract setting up to make sure the storage conditions are warm.
Only problem is finding drivers. But surely that's a simple enough task for existing train drivers and guards to learn? And maybe signalling staff as well. Far better to keep highly paid staff working than sending them home during a stoppage

(This is in speculative ideas isn't it?)

(This is a joke isn't it?)

 

[Robertj21a]

There must be plenty of spare coaches knocking around, for instance much of the Shearings fleet must still be lying around with dealers, unused, awaiting sale.
It just needs a contract setting up to make sure the storage conditions are warm.
Only problem is finding drivers. But surely that's a simple enough task for existing train drivers and guards to learn? And maybe signalling staff as well. Far better to keep highly paid staff working than sending them home during a stoppage

(This is in speculative ideas isn't it?)

Coach would be, literally, all over the road given there are no rails to help the driver steer, and nobody setting a route for him.......

 

[RT4038]

Indeed. But my point was that those saying standby buses are not a viable concept are in part wrong - there are cases where it is entirely viable. Though probably indeed not at the numbers you're saying.

Viable? Don't make me laugh. Pouring subsidy money down the drain for the Bedford-Bletchley line and even more for a standby bus. Shocking waste of money, paid for by taxpayers as there is so little in passenger fares.......

 

[notadriver]

Coach would be, literally, all over the road given there are no rails to help the driver steer, and nobody setting a route for him.......

That’s a joke - surely right ?
however in Holland the bus operator Keolis (Syntus) started to operate train services using bus drivers who they managed to train up in a month(!) Presumsbly training a bus driver to drive a train in Holland isn’t difficult ?

 

[alf]

I read on another forum that the old London & South Western railway turned station staff into full fledged motormen driving electric suburban trains into Waterloo station in four weeks.

 

[30907]

Just out of interest, in which part of Scotland was this "meltdown"? I assume the OP wasn't travelling from Wick to Thurso, but it would be nice to have been told

 

[ld0595]

Just out of interest, in which part of Scotland was this "meltdown"? I assume the OP wasn't travelling from Wick to Thurso, but it would be nice to have been told

See post #13. There were overhead line issues on the line between Queen Street Low Level and Partick.

Not great timing when the TRNSMT festival was on!

 

[Deafdoggie]

There must be plenty of spare coaches knocking around, for instance much of the Shearings fleet must still be lying around with dealers, unused, awaiting sale.
It just needs a contract setting up to make sure the storage conditions are warm.
Only problem is finding drivers. But surely that's a simple enough task for existing train drivers and guards to learn? And maybe signalling staff as well. Far better to keep highly paid staff working than sending them home during a stoppage

(This is in speculative ideas isn't it?)

There are indeed yards full of coaches. Not just Shearings. Since lockdown many coach companies have gone. However, most (all?) of these coaches are not PVSAR compliant, so are of no use.

 

[skyhigh]

There must be plenty of spare coaches knocking around, for instance much of the Shearings fleet must still be lying around with dealers, unused, awaiting sale.
It just needs a contract setting up to make sure the storage conditions are warm.
Only problem is finding drivers. But surely that's a simple enough task for existing train drivers and guards to learn? And maybe signalling staff as well. Far better to keep highly paid staff working than sending them home during a stoppage

(This is in speculative ideas isn't it?)

Okay, so assuming there are PSVAR compliant coaches spare (they're in short supply), how do you get the train crew to the coaches? Assuming there's not fleets of coaches parked up in the centre of Leeds, York, Sheffield, Manchester next to the stations etc. And when the disruption eases, how do you start trains when crew are all over the place driving random buses?

 

[Highlandspring]

Only problem is finding drivers. But surely that's a simple enough task for existing train drivers and guards to learn? And maybe signalling staff as well. Far better to keep highly paid staff working than sending them home during a stoppage

Okay, so assuming there are PSVAR compliant coaches spare (they're in short supply), how do you get the train crew to the coaches? Assuming there's not fleets of coaches parked up in the centre of Leeds, York, Sheffield, Manchester next to the stations etc. And when the disruption eases, how do you start trains when crew are all over the place driving random buses?

The disruption doesn’t ease because the signallers will be out too apparently, so nothing can get repaired or run till they get back anyway.

 

[Devon Sunset]

There must be plenty of spare coaches knocking around, for instance much of the Shearings fleet must still be lying around with dealers, unused, awaiting sale.
It just needs a contract setting up to make sure the storage conditions are warm.
Only problem is finding drivers. But surely that's a simple enough task for existing train drivers and guards to learn? And maybe signalling staff as well. Far better to keep highly paid staff working than sending them home during a stoppage

(This is in speculative ideas isn't it?)

Not as far fetched as you'd think actually. Around 12-13 years ago when First were running Scotrail a certain manager at a large station knew that me and another member of staff had PCV licences and they had the idea that a couple of buses could be kept in the car park in case of disruption, whereabout we were to fire up the buses. Who was to replace us in our jobs I'm not sure but it never got of they drawing board surprisingly .