Rail Replacement Shortages due to HGV driver shortages

[PHILIPE]

Last Saturday TFW recorded almost 100 cancellations and 50 shorts due to traincrew shortages and, as these were more short notice events rather than pre-planned Engineering Work, Rail replacement transport could not be sourced. In such circumstances TFW regularly provide RRB but were unable to provide on this occasion. Particularly hit were the Cardiff Valleys and West Wales with people as good as being told to find their own way home. What stood out was the Pembroke Dock Branch which caters for a large holiday area and which saw numerous cancellations with people stuck at places such as Tenby left with little means of a smooth return home. Taxis also were at a premium.

 

[Mag_seven]

Last Saturday TFW recorded almost 100 cancellations and 50 shorts due to traincrew shortages and, as these were more short notice events rather than pre-planned Engineering Work, Rail replacement transport could not be sourced. In such circumstances TFW regularly provide RRB but were unable to provide on this occasion. Particularly hit were the Cardiff Valleys and West Wales with people as good as being told to find their own way home. What stood out was the Pembroke Dock Branch which caters for a large holiday area and which saw numerous cancellations with people stuck at places such as Tenby left with little means of a smooth return home. Taxis also were at a premium.

I'm puzzled as to the reason for Saturday staff shortages as Saturday (unlike Sunday) is part of the working week isn't it?

 

[dk1]

I'm puzzled as to the reason for Saturday staff shortages as Saturday (unlike Sunday) is part of the working week isn't it?

Far more want leave on Saturdays particularly on lates. Staff wanting to do family stuff or go out so get far less volunteering to work overtime on Saturdays.

 

[Robertj21a]

I'm puzzled as to the reason for Saturday staff shortages as Saturday (unlike Sunday) is part of the working week isn't it?

I don't even consider using trains at the weekend (unless a very frequent service), it's far too unreliable for me.

 

[mike57]

Will this encourage the use of diversion routes where available in the future, even if currently buses are used. The pain of making sure the route learning and suitable rolling stock is in place will be less than sourcing buses

 

[ExRes]

Or put otherwise (and I voted Remain) companies will no longer get people for poverty wages, which means we have to readjust and pay people a wage they can actually live off. It's short term pain but I very much see this as a long term gain - a genuine levelling rather than a political one. Always good when it's an employee's market - we're just talking about other industries' staff getting the benefits that railway staff have had by way of their strong Unions.

I have never, ever supported the "race to the bottom" approach of bringing people in who will live on poverty wages sharing beds in HMOs. That is not good for anyone. I'm more than happy for immigration - people coming to the UK because they want to make a proper life here because they like what the UK offers - but not for yet another symptom of "race to the bottom" which this sort of economic migration represents.

It intrigues me that most Remainers tend to be left wing and believe in e.g. European social constructs, yet they currently moan about not being able to get things that were only on offer because of wages that were bordering on exploitation.

Thank you, an excellent and factual post

 

[6Gman]

Will this encourage the use of diversion routes where available in the future, even if currently buses are used. The pain of making sure the route learning and suitable rolling stock is in place will be less than sourcing buses

Not in the short or medium term.

The last thing most TOCs need/want at the moment is a further training requirement.

 

[Carlisle]

I'm puzzled as to the reason for Saturday staff shortages as Saturday (unlike Sunday) is part of the working week isn't it?

Have TOCs in recent years allowed some staff to go part time but perhaps not always increased staff numbers sufficiently to fully account for this, particularly during the lockdowns ?

 

[The Planner]

Will this encourage the use of diversion routes where available in the future, even if currently buses are used. The pain of making sure the route learning and suitable rolling stock is in place will be less than sourcing buses

Its the complete opposite at the moment. Some TOCs will lose some of the more obscure diversionary routes and can't release drivers to train up and keep the current service going.

 

[Horizon22]

I'm puzzled as to the reason for Saturday staff shortages as Saturday (unlike Sunday) is part of the working week isn't it?

I suppose Sunday often has an additional supplement and because everyone is reliant on RDW (with the various train driver issues that most TOCs have) for the whole week anyway, Saturday has the least takers as its a weekend.

 

[43066]

Or put otherwise (and I voted Remain) companies will no longer get people for poverty wages, which means we have to readjust and pay people a wage they can actually live off. It's short term pain but I very much see this as a long term gain - a genuine levelling rather than a political one. Always good when it's an employee's market - we're just talking about other industries' staff getting the benefits that railway staff have had by way of their strong Unions.

I quite agree. Free movement of Labour is a very problematic concept which distorted the market for jobs like lorry driving, with EU workers more vulnerable to exploitation and working for poverty wages in many cases, undercutting U.K. workers (same with the traditional trades).

Of course this never affected Guardian reading remainers in professional white collar jobs, who wouldn’t ever deign to do dirty blue collar work themselves, but now resent an extra 50p being added to their Amazon order or Ocado delivery.

 

[irish_rail]

Or put otherwise (and I voted Remain) companies will no longer get people for poverty wages, which means we have to readjust and pay people a wage they can actually live off. It's short term pain but I very much see this as a long term gain - a genuine levelling rather than a political one. Always good when it's an employee's market - we're just talking about other industries' staff getting the benefits that railway staff have had by way of their strong Unions.

I have never, ever supported the "race to the bottom" approach of bringing people in who will live on poverty wages sharing beds in HMOs. That is not good for anyone. I'm more than happy for immigration - people coming to the UK because they want to make a proper life here because they like what the UK offers - but not for yet another symptom of "race to the bottom" which this sort of economic migration represents.

It intrigues me that most Remainers tend to be left wing and believe in e.g. European social constructs, yet they currently moan about not being able to get things that were only on offer because of wages that were bordering on exploitation.

But surely this just leads to high inflation and prices go up anyway and the man now earning 50k is still at the bottom as everything now costs twice as much and his great new salary is no longer quite so great. I'm all for decent wages trust me, but we are talking about paying lorry drivers 56k for a job requiring 3 weeks of training.

 

[43066]

But surely this just leads to high inflation and prices go up anyway and the man now earning 50k is still at the bottom as everything now costs twice as much and his great new salary is no longer quite so great. I'm all for decent wages trust me, but we are talking about paying lorry drivers 56k for a job requiring 3 weeks of training.

As train drivers we get pretty fed up of being told we are overpaid by people who have no understanding of our jobs. Let’s not start doing the same thing to other groups of workers!

 

[Geoff DC]

But surely this just leads to high inflation and prices go up anyway and the man now earning 50k is still at the bottom as everything now costs twice as much and his great new salary is no longer quite so great. I'm all for decent wages trust me, but we are talking about paying lorry drivers 56k for a job requiring 3 weeks of training.

Gaining the licence doesn't take long, the reality is that it is a 'Licence To Learn'. It takes about 2 years for a driver to really become fully competent and even longer to gain experience in all the specialities.
However, the job has been dumbed down in recent years leading to too many 'Steering Wheel Attendants' with the resulting bridge stikes, overturned vehicles etc..

 

[Class 170101]

Could Network Rail stomach cancelling disruptive possessions? I somehow doubt it!

I doubt it too, but longer term NR may need to more work in fewer possessions not just to move passengers on trains (which they pay for) rather because Rail Replacement road transport which it seems may be at risk of being in short supply widely soon.

 

[dk1]

Have TOCs in recent years allowed some staff to go part time but perhaps haven’t always increased staff numbers sufficiently to fully account for this ?

At my TOC part time is not permitted unless it’s through Ill health or family friendly. Any driver/guard wanting part time can only do it through job share & they are very strictly monitored by the union at all times.

 

[The Planner]

I doubt it too, but longer term NR may need to more work in fewer possessions not just to move passengers on trains (which they pay for) rather because Rail Replacement road transport which it seems may be at risk of being in short supply widely soon.

That isn't NRs problem though. It may end up with a TOC saying do not travel like Chiltern did over the weekend.

 

[Class 170101]

That isn't NRs problem though. It may end up with a TOC saying do not travel like Chiltern did over the weekend.

It will be if TOCs reject Blocks especially if we are supposed to be GBR going forward?

 

[Bletchleyite]

That isn't NRs problem though. It may end up with a TOC saying do not travel like Chiltern did over the weekend.

Chiltern interestingly left a few stations unserved - Denham Golf Club was certainly one but not the only one - is this normal or was it due to being unable to get taxis for the small roads?

 

[whoosh]

I'm puzzled as to the reason for Saturday staff shortages as Saturday (unlike Sunday) is part of the working week isn't it?

You have a limited number of Mon/Tues/Wed/Thurs/Fri restdays per year. Will you work some of them.

"Yeah, who cares!"

You've a limited number of Saturdays off per year, will you work some of those - when your kids are off, and your friends and family organise meet ups and events and occasions?

"Er.. I'm not so keen actually."

But the railway is desperate!

"But I've got plans now."

 

[The Planner]

It will be if TOCs reject Blocks especially if we are supposed to be GBR going forward?

What are they going to reject the blocks on? I can't see ADRC siding with a TOC on that front. It won't be a long term issue any way.

Chiltern interestingly left a few stations unserved - Denham Golf Club was certainly one but not the only one - is this normal or was it due to being unable to get taxis for the small roads?

No idea, I know they were in trouble but that side of it is for them to sort. They may have just taken the executive decision that the needs of the many outweigh those of the few, to quote Spock.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You have a limited number of Mon/Tues/Wed/Thurs/Fri restdays per year. Will you work some of them.

"Yeah, who cares!"

You've a limited number of Saturdays off per year, will you work some of those - when your kids are off, and your friends and family organise meet ups and events and occasions?

"Er.. I'm not so keen actually."

But the railway is desperate!

"But I've got plans now."

Though there will with most people be an element of "what's it worth" and the railway isn't willing to cough up enough.

 

[Class 170101]

What are they going to reject the blocks on? I can't see ADRC siding with a TOC on that front. It won't be a long term issue any way.

Surely the rejection grounds are no Rail Replacement Road Trsnport. Are you sure it won't be a long term issue though, its one thing to see Bus drivers moving to become lorry drivers and those that have moved then backfilled but aren't we potentially in a situation of 'full employment' and with no visas for foreign drivers says the government where are these people coming from to do the back filling?

 

[dk1]

Though there will with most people be an element of "what's it worth" and the railway isn't willing to cough up enough.

When it comes down to the wire 12+2 will usually be offered as well as other sweeteners such as covering the last bit. This however is rarely enough to tempt me in for a soul destroying late Saturday shift.

 

[tony6499]

This weekend, there was some localised disruption on GWR services to Cheltenham and on Southern along the South Coast from Brighton. It appears that provisions to secure replacement road transport were extermely limited / non-existent. This has primarily been down to TOCs simply being unable to source replacement road transport - in many cases the bus operators have got nobody available and I've heard multiple reports that there's a flight from the industry as bus drivers are going onto become HGV drivers and doubling their salary. I'm aware that in some cases all that could be mustered up was a solitary coach.

To me this seems to pose a bit of an crisis for railway companies for either a) major disruption or b) planned engineering works as there may simply be no alternative available for passengers. I would hope this is just a short-term issue as a fall out of the ongoing HGV driver shortage, but this has the potential to roll on for some time. Not sure what's the contignencies should be when your contingency isn't available!

Brighton was affected as all the usual extra buses and drivers were doing the football runs which didn't help as did all the extra events planned for the same day on Sunday

 

[irish_rail]

As train drivers we get pretty fed up of being told we are overpaid by people who have no understanding of our jobs. Let’s not start doing the same thing to other groups of workers!

I get what your saying but if we continue to get pay freezes (fair enough really) I don't really want to see eveey other career get humongous payrises. This then drives up inflation and all of a sudden I cannot afford the mortgage.
Decent pay is one thing but 56k for lorry driving is too far. It took us as train drivers many many years to slowly and controllably get to where we are paywise, it certainly didn't happen overnight. The economy is already being run by total clowns, things have the potential to get much much worse yet.....

 

[The Planner]

Surely the rejection grounds are no Rail Replacement Road Trsnport. Are you sure it won't be a long term issue though, its one thing to see Bus drivers moving to become lorry drivers and those that have moved then backfilled but aren't we potentially in a situation of 'full employment' and with no visas for foreign drivers says the government where are these people coming from to do the back filling?

It has already been discussed and the view of TOCs is that it isn't long term and manageable and they won't take it to ADRC.

 

[JamesT]

You have a limited number of Mon/Tues/Wed/Thurs/Fri restdays per year. Will you work some of them.

"Yeah, who cares!"

You've a limited number of Saturdays off per year, will you work some of those - when your kids are off, and your friends and family organise meet ups and events and occasions?

"Er.. I'm not so keen actually."

But the railway is desperate!

"But I've got plans now."

I think the query is more how does it get to the point where it gets to needing people doing RDW to cover for those days. Have they let too many people take annual leave at the same time?

 

[mike57]

But surely this just leads to high inflation and prices go up anyway and the man now earning 50k is still at the bottom as everything now costs twice as much and his great new salary is no longer quite so great. I'm all for decent wages trust me, but we are talking about paying lorry drivers 56k for a job requiring 3 weeks of training.

I think market forces will drive HGV driver wages up, its not just the training, its also about anti social hours, stressful job etc. I suspect the switch from PSV to HGV isnt that great, so people will gravitate to the best paying jobs. The problem is covid and brexit have conspired to suddendly remove a lot of overseas drivers and the home grown training and licencing hasnt caught up.

I do think that with the EU we got the worst of both worlds, as @Bletchleyite said "race to the bottom" and freedom of work and movement, whilst not having the ability to ensure that there was a level playing field with local workers who have to support a home and family at UK cost of living. I also agree about immigration, as an example, the East African Asian community who were kicked out of Uganda, they came to this country with the thought that it had to work for them, they (from what I saw at the time) worked hard, and were successful and bear in mind a lot of them had little more than the clothes they stood up in when they arrived, and down the line made a contribution to our society. Compare that with workers who come and live in poor conditions to earn money to go back home rich because of the lower cost of living, they have no loyalty to the UK, and all they do is keep wages artifically low for UK workers. Hopefully we retain enough compassion to welcome the genuine immigrants, whilst not allowing the second situation to reassert itself.

 

[Mag_seven]

Have they let too many people take annual leave at the same time?

Indeed - you would have thought that all the drivers Saturday leave would be agreed up front at the start of the year so the situation on being reliant on overtime would not arise.