First Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and West Lothian operations)

[PaulMc7]

The only depot that is questionable at the moment is Livingston, however this on going battle has made to clear to everyone else if you come knocking on a First area don't expect us to rollover. I have to wonder how much money is being saved by pulling off the X23, 27 and the other cuts.




What was the old First price before they made it cheaper to compete with Lothian?

I'd imagine they're saving a fairly decent amount to be fair. I can't imagine other areas like Balfron, Callandar then some areas around Falkirk, Stirling etc being great to operate in either though although with some necessary cuts due to the driver shortage there's probably a good amount saved around the area overall.

 

[JurassicMan]

The only depot that is questionable at the moment is Livingston, however this on going battle has made to clear to everyone else if you come knocking on a First area don't expect us to rollover. I have to wonder how much money is being saved by pulling off the X23, 27 and the other cuts.




What was the old First price before they made it cheaper to compete with Lothian?

The bizarre thing is when buses that are still registered to run don't operate it actually saves money. There have been massive savings in recent months with new duty parameters and Electric shuttles however public confidence which was low anyway is now rock bottom in West Lothian and its something i doubt First will be able to comeback from now.

It was previously £26 for a 2 zone LM ticket before it was reduced to the current £18 offer price.

 

[PaulMc7]

Going by the amount of tweets today it's hard to tell just how many services are actually running around West Lothian. Buses from Falkirk massively missing today too clearly. I wouldn't blame people for finding other methods of travel and sticking to them from now.

 

[overthewater]

I dare say people have started to notice Livingston depot does have new drivers coming into play, not enough to cover the cuts but surely enough to allow them to operate the current routes.

Over the past year the amount of services still registered with all companies has greatly reduced. Stagecoach still has a few but until things pick up ie passengers, drivers, etc etc you can't get them back into being, we're stuck in limbo.

If more people in West Lothian know about Lothian Country weekly tickets, I think they would be mass exodus away from First except from the few areas not served by Lothian. LCB needs to do a proper campaign with the new ticket.

With X38, it badly needs to go back to every 20mins on a Saturday, buses are running full even at lunchtimes. There is now a new challenge as Winchburgh is about to get it's new motorway junction with the M9, which would allow faster travel times for cars but you could get faster travel time for any new bus services.

Stirling Council has now put out a tender for its two Park n ride services, P1 and P2, It could be interesting to see if First goes for these services.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Yet more cuts, how much more before it's not worth keeping open?

Services 5 & 27 Revised Timetables from 8th Nov
21 Oct 2021All Areas
From Monday 8th November 2021 revised timetables will operate on services 5 and service 27 will be suspended in full until further notice.
We will be operating the following network revisions due to the ongoing driver shortage

Monday 08 November 2021

Service 5
Reduced to a 30 min frequency

Click here to view timetable

Service 27
Suspended until further notice

 

[overthewater]

That was mentioned 12 days ago. No27 only had 2 buses, and thus would only save 4 drivers duties?, nothing to really set the heather alight. However its NOT the only west Lothian company that's had to make cuts AKA LCB 281.

 

[PaulMc7]

To be quite honest, going by the Twitter account and the fairly constant cancellations I'd be surprised if there isn't more cuts especially in Stirling and Falkirk. Even the X10/X10A seems to be getting affected now and then too as well as the X36/X37.

 

[LiviCrazy]

I noticed on Facebook that First Scotland East are doing part time recruitment with Fixed Shifts.
That seems fairly forward thinking for a big company, could give them an edge in terms of recruitment.

 

[PaulMc7]

With how many drivers they seem to be short of First probably need to push wages up so the job becomes a bit more attractive while also being very flexible. It seems to be a nightmare going by the constant cancellations of services.

 

[Volvodart]

The hourly rate has gone up, it is now £11 plus per hour.

 

[LiviCrazy]

With how many drivers they seem to be short of First probably need to push wages up so the job becomes a bit more attractive while also being very flexible. It seems to be a nightmare going by the constant cancellations of services.

I have noticed the last week or so that the number of West Lothian Services affected has reduced, there was a while where they were publishing a table for each route. Now it seems to be a handful a day. The shortage now seems to be hitting Falkirk/Stirling area more now.

 

[PaulMc7]

I have noticed the last week or so that the number of West Lothian Services affected has reduced, there was a while where they were publishing a table for each route. Now it seems to be a handful a day. The shortage now seems to be hitting Falkirk/Stirling area more now.

I wouldn't be surprised if cuts for the 3/4 and 51/52 especially happened. There's days where one of them seem to be non existent for a lot of it.

 

[Baileygirl]

That was mentioned 12 days ago. No27 only had 2 buses, and thus would only save 4 drivers duties?, nothing to really set the heather alight. However its NOT the only west Lothian company that's had to make cuts AKA LCB 281.

Buses off on routes are as follows -
21 1 bus ( one bus per hour Bathgate
To Whitburn )
X23 7 buses ( suspended )
X25 2 buses ( Broxburn to Edinburgh suspended )
27 3 buses ( suspended )
600 3 buses ( Livingston to Whitburn suspended )

A total of 16 buses off the road.

 

[PaulMc7]

Buses off on routes are as follows -
21 1 bus ( one bus per hour Bathgate
To Whitburn )
X23 7 buses ( suspended )
X25 2 buses ( Broxburn to Edinburgh suspended )
27 3 buses ( suspended )
600 3 buses ( Livingston to Whitburn suspended )

A total of 16 buses off the road.

It shows how bad things are that 16 are off the road and the only service that hasn't had a tweet regarding cancellations is the 26A today. Unless there's a miracle that's a very big shortage to fix.

Even the 26A hasn't escaped missing journeys now today.

 

[overthewater]

Buses off on routes are as follows -
21 1 bus ( one bus per hour Bathgate
To Whitburn )
X23 7 buses ( suspended )
X25 2 buses ( Broxburn to Edinburgh suspended )
27 3 buses ( suspended )
600 3 buses ( Livingston to Whitburn suspended )

A total of 16 buses off the road.

To be fair most of these were put on because of the competition with Lothian. First properly doesn't care most of them are not running. First are only down 5 buses overall compared to the network it wanted to operated.

 

[stantheman]

Can you track the vehicle numbers on the 63 or 20 somehow

 

[Volvodart]

From Monday 22 November service 600 is being rerouted to serve St John's Hospital in place of service 27.

Timetable here:-

https://www.firstbus.co.uk/uploads/node_images/600 Full Timetable PM923-336 Nov 21.pdf

 

[freddiem]

From Monday 22 November service 600 is being rerouted to serve St John's Hospital in place of service 27.

Timetable here:-

https://www.firstbus.co.uk/uploads/node_images/600 Full Timetable PM923-336 Nov 21.pdf

Presumably via Alderstone Rd, which in no way replaces the 27, as it doesn't serve ASDA, Craigshill or Ladywell. So essentially this change is "From Monday 22 November service 600 is being rerouted to serve St John's Hospital to try and pinch some of the handful of passengers from LC". Thoughts?

 

[overthewater]

Presumably via Alderstone Rd, which in no way replaces the 27, as it doesn't serve ASDA, Craigshill or Ladywell. So essentially this change is "From Monday 22 November service 600 is being rerouted to serve St John's Hospital to try and pinch some of the handful of passengers from LC". Thoughts?

No, but its master stroke by First to try and win what is ever left of Tender No7 or kill off that tender for good.

 

[JurassicMan]

Presumably via Alderstone Rd, which in no way replaces the 27, as it doesn't serve ASDA, Craigshill or Ladywell. So essentially this change is "From Monday 22 November service 600 is being rerouted to serve St John's Hospital to try and pinch some of the handful of passengers from LC". Thoughts?

The only part is centre to St Johns hospital to retain the frequency that was provided by 26/26a and 27.

Gives people of Kirkliston and Winchburgh a direct link to St Johns which is something they have been looking for and gives Broxburn and Uphall a direct quick service as opposed to being given a tour of of villages and districts of Livingston before getting to St Johns on LC .

As for "handful of passengers" those handfuls are becoming more and more important with each passing week.

 

[CN04NRJ]

To be fair most of these were put on because of the competition with Lothian. First properly doesn't care most of them are not running. First are only down 5 buses overall compared to the network it wanted to operated.

It's really not an excuse for an operator such as First to 'not care' about certain routes. What if the shoe was on the other foot?

 

[overthewater]

Gives people of Kirkliston and Winchburgh a direct link to St Johns

People in Kirkliston have had a direct link to St Johns since August on X51

It's really not an excuse for an operator such as First to 'not care' about certain routes. What if the shoe was on the other foot?

Who is this other foot? Let be fair here First didn't want to operate these "Extras" Lothian forced its hand in competitions. As its been said there must be saving a pocket not running empty buses all over the place, there really is no demand to go into Edinburgh.

 

[Busman757]

People in Kirkliston have had a direct link to St Johns since August on X51



Who is this other foot? Let be fair here First didn't want to operate these "Extras" Lothian forced its hand in competitions. As its been said there must be saving a pocket not running empty buses all over the place, there really is no demand to go into Edinburgh.

See you keep saying ‘there really is no demand to go into Edinburgh’, however every bus I drive that goes ‘into Edinburgh’ I’m a near full load.

 

[CN04NRJ]

See you keep saying ‘there really is no demand to go into Edinburgh’, however every bus I drive that goes ‘into Edinburgh’ I’m a near full load.

I fairly regularly use the X18 and often struggle to find a seat - it's even worse coming home. A few occasions it's been full at Shandwick place even with people sat together on two seats.

Who is this other foot? Let be fair here First didn't want to operate these "Extras" Lothian forced its hand in competitions. As its been said there must be saving a pocket not running empty buses all over the place, there really is no demand to go into Edinburgh.

I think it's plainly obvious what I meant.

No company is 'forced' to register more/additional routes - when the previous company I worked for had a major competitive attack launched on their most popular routes they responded by not responding. Just focused on maintaining a reliable, quality service which actually in the long run has created natural growth and room for both operators to co-exist on the two corridors.

I'm sure the traffic commissioner would take a very dim view of not operating a significant number of registered journeys whether or not it 'saves them money'.

 

[overthewater]

See you keep saying ‘there really is no demand to go into Edinburgh’, however every bus I drive that goes ‘into Edinburgh’ I’m a near full load.

I fairly regularly use the X18 and often struggle to find a seat - it's even worse coming home. A few occasions it's been full at Shandwick place even with people sat together on two seats.

So its peak time the buses are full; how about off peak? Peak is different kettle. I've seem them off peak, and no way they're full EXCEPT for one route which is the X38, again that different kettle of fish.

I think it's plainly obvious what I meant.

No company is 'forced' to register more/additional routes - when the previous company I worked for had a major competitive attack launched on their most popular routes they responded by not responding. Just focused on maintaining a reliable, quality service which actually in the long run has created natural growth and room for both operators to co-exist on the two corridors.

I'm sure the traffic commissioner would take a very dim view of not operating a significant number of registered journeys whether or not it 'saves them money'.

Its not.

First did register more/additional routes, First also don't have the drivers to cover them, so it doesn't matter what happened else where or etc.

I'm not the only one that has said First must have saved money not having to operate these extra routes. I doubt anyone would disagree the X23 was lightly used.

If that is the case with the traffic commissioner, I dare say nearly every single bus company in the UK will get Public Enquiry letter soon.

Maybe first has relished it should be focused on maintaining a reliable, quality service of its core operations.

 

[CraigLockhart]

So its peak time the buses are full; how about off peak, Peak is different kettle. I've seem them off peak, and no way there full EXPECT for one route which is the X38, again that different kettle of fish.




Its not.

First did register more/additional routes, First also don't have the drivers to cover them, so it doesn't matter what happened else where or etc.

I'm not the only one that has said First must have saved money not having to operate the routes these extra routes. I doubt anyone would disagree the X23 was lightly used.

If that is the case with the traffic commissioner, I dare say nearly every single bus company in the UK will get Public Enquire letter soon.

Maybe first has relished it should be focused on maintaining a reliable, quality service of its core operations.

It's certainly focussed on maintaining a reliable quality service on its tour operation in Edinburgh. I wonder why

 

[overthewater]

It's certainly focussed on maintaining a reliable quality service on its tour operation in Edinburgh. I wonder why

I bet that makes money for First.

 

[Busman757]

So its peak time the buses are full; how about off peak, Peak is different kettle. I've seem them off peak, and no way there full EXPECT for one route which is the X38, again that different kettle of fish.




Its not.

First did register more/additional routes, First also don't have the drivers to cover them, so it doesn't matter what happened else where or etc.

I'm not the only one that has said First must have saved money not having to operate these extra routes. I doubt anyone would disagree the X23 was lightly used.

If that is the case with the traffic commissioner, I dare say nearly every single bus company in the UK will get Public Enquire letter soon.

Maybe first has relished it should be focused on maintaining a reliable, quality service of its core operations.

My usual runs on the 3 services that I drive to Edinburgh are mostly (as you put it) ‘off peak’. Very seldom do I drive in the peak time due to the shift pattern I’m on. Yes, First May have saved money by not operating their X23 but that is their issue.

 

[GusB]

Before this discussion goes any further, is the X18 a First service or one which is run by Lothian Country?

 

[Busman757]

Before this discussion goes any further, is the X18 a First service or one which is run by Lothian Country?

X18 is an LCB service.