Does the Gold Card trick still work?

[W&C]

So I was watching Geoff Marshall's video on the trick (2018), and he said something along the lines of:

The Rail Delivery Group asked a few thousand people on how fares should change, and they are going to submit it to Parliament later in the year, so it looks like the Gold Card trick will go away with that.

So is the Gold Card still a benefit of getting an annual season ticket in the NSE+ area?

 

[JonathanH]

So I was watching Geoff Marshall's video on the trick (2018), and he said something along the lines of:

So is the Gold Card still a benefit of getting an annual season ticket in the NSE+ area?

Yes, still available. Not a trick.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/annual-gold-card.aspx

If you buy an Annual Season Ticket or Annual Travelcard in the South of England, you may qualify for an Annual Gold Card which offer discounts on leisure rail travel.

What is an Annual Gold Card?
Annual Gold Cards are Annual Season tickets with a difference!

When you buy an adult Annual Season ticket or Annual Travelcard online or at a station within the Annual Gold Card area and the origin and/or destination are also in the Annual Gold Card area, you are automatically issued with an Annual Gold Card. If your Season ticket is issued on Smartcard or an Oyster card, you will be eligible to automatically receive a Gold Record Card to your registered address. As well as being a Season ticket for a full year, you also get a range of discounts on other leisure rail journeys in the Annual Gold Card area for both yourself and others.

There is no published plan to withdraw the benefit.

 

[matt_world2004]

I imagine the gold card trick is getting a gold card by buying a cheap season ticket within the gold card area and using that tk get discounts greater than the season ticket value

 

[Hadders]

I imagine the gold card trick is getting a gold card by buying a cheap season ticket within the gold card area and using that tk get discounts greater than the season ticket value

Hatton to Lapworth is currently the cheapest annual season ticket with Gold Card benefits. There is a part time season ticket between Exeter St Davids and Exeter Central which is cheaper but arguably doesn’t qualify for Gold Card status, although reports on this forum suggest it has been issued as a Gold Card.

It is no trick and is perfectly valid. The only slight downside is the rather farcical lack of validity on LNER between Stevenage and Kings Cross and on Avanti between Milton Keynes and Euston, even though a Network Railcard is valid on these routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they did want to stop it, then a minimum season ticket price could be applied. But they'd be better advised to look how many people are willing to pay a three figure sum for a (near) National Railcard and consider what that means they should do.

 

[JonathanH]

If they did want to stop it, then a minimum season ticket price could be applied. But they'd be better advised to look how many people are willing to pay a three figure sum for a (near) National Railcard and consider what that means they should do.

I expect the numbers buying such low priced season tickets just for the Gold Card discount is negligible.

 

[SeanG]

Indeed, and it may encourage them to part with further money that they wouldn't otherwise spend on the railway

 

[Kite159]

I expect the numbers buying such low priced season tickets just for the Gold Card discount is negligible.

It will be interesting to see a comparison of the number of season tickets between the Lichfield stations before & after the Gold Card area expanded [and how many it lost when the price increased so it was no longer the cheapest Gold Card]. Likewise for Lapworth - Hatton which from memory had a sizeable price cut a couple years ago to make it the cheapest.

The numbers will probably be in the low hundreds, but certainly having a Gold Card soon makes a profit, especially if you live/traffic in the expanded area, use oyster or buy tickets which would foul the min fare found on a Network Railcard. All little savings but they soon add up.

[Certainly for myself, assuming there is no chance of another lockdown in the new year I will probably get a Lapworth - Hatton season ticket next month when my £10 network card comes to an end]

 

[infobleep]

There is a part time season ticket between Exeter St Davids and Exeter Central which is cheaper but arguably doesn’t qualify for Gold Card status, although reports on this forum suggest it has been issued as a Gold Card.

I'd argue the Exeter one does qualify as it is issued for 12 months and when you search online it comes up as an annual season ticket, as far as I recall.

[Certainly for myself, assuming there is no chance of another lockdown in the new year I will probably get a Lapworth - Hatton season ticket next month when my £10 network card comes to an end]

Last Gold Card (ending in early July) I only saved a small sum over the Network Railcard as I didn't make enough short journeys during the week. That also included using free South West Traina gold card tickets

Since July I have already saved almost £53 above a Network Railcard. Whilst this does include using free South West Trains travel tickets, I will even research a point where I will be saving even without them included.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I'd argue the Exeter one does qualify as it is issued for 12 months and when you search online it comes up as an annual season ticket, as far as I recall.

It unequivocally qualifies for a Devon & Cornwall Gold Card, as Knowledgebase explicitly states:

Annual Season Tickets (including Part-Time Seasons) for Adults aged 16 and over sold within and for journeys wholly within Devon and Cornwall are automatically issued on special stock and offer the same benefits of the Devon and Cornwall Railcard.

The (Network) Gold Card page doesn't mention either way, though that's possibly just because it's not been updated since GWR introduced the part-time seasons.

What is certain is that stations outside Devon and Cornwall are unlikely to have D&C Gold Card stock, but it may be a case of "shopping around" to get one issued on (Network) Gold Card stock.

 

[Cdd89]

I expect the numbers buying such low priced season tickets just for the Gold Card discount is negligible.

I suspect that may be due to lack of knowledge rather than poor value. A few colleagues at work, who travel in later than the morning peak, have found enormous value in doing so.

And for a national railcard that applied to the whole country and which was valid on advance fares? I’d easily pay £400. I can’t imagine I’m alone…

 

[Ianno87]

. A few colleagues at work, who travel in later than the morning peak, have found enormous value in doing so.

It has to be a pretty specific set of circumstances to justify the outlay, compared to a Network Card (within the Network Area** at least):

-Specifically wanting to travel in the 0930-1000 period
-Travel that is not paid for by one's employer
-Journey less than the £13 Network Card minutes fare
-Not travelling enough to justify a season ticket

**I suggest outside the Network Area, such as in the West Midlands, in many cases you may as well just buy a whole season ticket.

 

[Cdd89]

-Specifically wanting to travel in the 0930-1000 period

For those commuting using Oyster PAYG, that’s overly restrictive. You can get (some, perhaps not incredible) per-trip value with just an AM+PM journey where either the morning journey isn’t in the AM peak, or the evening journey isn’t in the PM peak. That’s a much wider group; half my office leaves at 4pm!

(And that’s before all the non-commuting patterns where there is far more obvious value — either justifying it on its own, or helping to justify a weaker ‘commuting’ case).

 

[Hadders]

It has to be a pretty specific set of circumstances to justify the outlay, compared to a Network Card (within the Network Area** at least):

-Specifically wanting to travel in the 0930-1000 period
-Travel that is not paid for by one's employer
-Journey less than the £13 Network Card minutes fare
-Not travelling enough to justify a season ticket

**I suggest outside the Network Area, such as in the West Midlands, in many cases you may as well just buy a whole season ticket.

The lack of the £13 minimum fare on weekdays can be a game changer for many
The ability to benefit from discounted off peak PAYG fares is also a bonus for many
A 09:30 validity rather than 10:00 on weekdays is more useful
The extended area in East Anglia and the West Midlands is useful
Obtaining another railcard for a friend or family member for £10 also represents another £20 saving

Admittedly not all of these will appeal to everyone but for some a cheap Gold Card is definitely worth it.

 

[Ianno87]

The extended area in East Anglia and the West Midlands is useful
Obtaining another railcard for a friend or family member for £10 also represents another £20 saving

Admittedly not all of these will appeal to everyone but for some a cheap Gold Card is definitely worth it.

I think if I was more regularly travelling outside the Network Area but inside the rest of the Gold Card area, it would be a bit more worthwhile.

E.g. doing something like a weekly journey between London and Birmingham would stack up pretty quickly.

 

[infobleep]

I think if I was more regularly travelling outside the Network Area but inside the rest of the Gold Card area, it would be a bit more worthwhile.

E.g. doing something like a weekly journey between London and Birmingham would stack up pretty quickly.

I don't own a car so either have to grab a lift off someone or use public transport.

I make a lot of journeys that cost less than £13. Even an evening out return from Guildford to Waterloo would be under £13.

If I wish to travel to work I'd leave after 9.30 or even just pop in for an afternoon. The reduction in price all adds up and surprisingly faster than I expected.

I also make journeys at weekends and ones that are over £13 so it's not solely journeys under £13.

 

[[.n]]

It has to be a pretty specific set of circumstances to justify the outlay, compared to a Network Card (within the Network Area** at least):

-Specifically wanting to travel in the 0930-1000 period
-Travel that is not paid for by one's employer
-Journey less than the £13 Network Card minutes fare
-Not travelling enough to justify a season ticket

**I suggest outside the Network Area, such as in the West Midlands, in many cases you may as well just buy a whole season ticket.

You've missed;
-discounted 1st class travel
-in the old SWT area, the ability to continue to use free weekend tickets

 

[westv]

Since moving north a decade ago, the Gold/Network Card is just another railcard that remains out of my reach.

 

[Starmill]

If they did want to stop it, then a minimum season ticket price could be applied. But they'd be better advised to look how many people are willing to pay a three figure sum for a (near) National Railcard and consider what that means they should do.

Chiltern slashed the price of Hatton to Lapworth to get in on the revenue, so it must have been enough to make it worth their while...

 

[Haywain]

Chiltern slashed the price of Hatton to Lapworth to get in on the revenue,

Have you any certainty of that being the reason?

 

[Starmill]

Have you any certainty of that being the reason?

No not really. It could have been something completely unrelated like someone working there really wanted a cheap Gold Card. But it would be one astonishing coincidence if Chiltern lowered the price of that ticket, but not any others around it, by a very large proportion, and also that it just so happened to be done at the same time as those stations joining the Gold Card area. It's also consistent that it isn't actually any practical use at all for travel by itself; they're small villages and only a tiny number of people will ever travel between them by train.

 

[thedbdiboy]

There has never been any talk of trying to close down this option. A relatively small number of dedicated rail travellers make use of this opportunity; there is no need to prevent it because the revenue implications are so marginal as to be of no consequence in the grand scheme of things. Post-Covid, any revenue shift is now just 'wooden dollars' so I doubt any operator will be vying to undercut another to claim 'cheapest Gold Card'.

 

[Kite159]

There has never been any talk of trying to close down this option. A relatively small number of dedicated rail travellers make use of this opportunity; there is no need to prevent it because the revenue implications are so marginal as to be of no consequence in the grand scheme of things. Post-Covid, any revenue shift is now just 'wooden dollars' so I doubt any operator will be vying to undercut another to claim 'cheapest Gold Card'.

Instead I fear there might be larger than expected price hikes for the cheaper Gold Card Season Tickets, with someone in the DFT deciding that the vast majority of those buying them are not actually travelling on that route*. With the idea that getting say £200 is better than ~£180 as most will probably still buy the season ticket for the benefits.

(* I guess the DFT can access the season ticket database to see that holders of a Lapworth - Hatton season ticket live in London/Guildford/Hastings etc and nobody with an address in the Hatton or Lapworth area hold such a ticket)

 

[thedbdiboy]

Instead I fear there might be larger than expected price hikes for the cheaper Gold Card Season Tickets, with someone in the DFT deciding that the vast majority of those buying them are not actually travelling on that route*. With the idea that getting say £200 is better than ~£180 as most will probably still buy the season ticket for the benefits.

(* I guess the DFT can access the season ticket database to see that holders of a Lapworth - Hatton season ticket live in London/Guildford/Hastings etc and nobody with an address in the Hatton or Lapworth area hold such a ticket)

Unlikely - the likelihood for Seasons is that whatever rate is agreed for the increase will be applied across the board. Any variation to this is more likely to come from a TOC pushing for out-of-course changes to sort anomalies out. The purchase and use (or otherwise) of short distance seasons is not really on the DfT radar as an issue to be addressed.

 

[Kite159]

Unlikely - the likelihood for Seasons is that whatever rate is agreed for the increase will be applied across the board. Any variation to this is more likely to come from a TOC pushing for out-of-course changes to sort anomalies out. The purchase and use (or otherwise) of short distance seasons is not really on the DfT radar as an issue to be addressed.

How much say will a TOC have over the fares now franchising has ended and they are operated under the newer style management contract with the revenue going towards the DFT?

 

[thedbdiboy]

Everything is in transition but for now the only way fares can physically be changed is via TOC pricing managers so the high level spec comes from DfT but it is down to the TOC to manage the details. DfT have absolute power of veto though so a TOC cannot just do what it likes. By next year (but after the fares change) GBR will be up and running in shadow mode so a more industry-driven (rather than TOC-driven) should start to be possible.

 

[infobleep]

Everything is in transition but for now the only way fares can physically be changed is via TOC pricing managers so the high level spec comes from DfT but it is down to the TOC to manage the details. DfT have absolute power of veto though so a TOC cannot just do what it likes. By next year (but after the fares change) GBR will be up and running in shadow mode so a more industry-driven (rather than TOC-driven) should start to be possible.

Interesting.

Is there any incentive for TOCs to changes prices at all, other than by the DfT agreed amount, given the DfT take the recent risk?

 

[thedbdiboy]

There are requirements for TOCs to manage their responsibilities in a competent manner and certainly there are efforts being made to identify where changes are needed or would be desirable. However, the incentives at this stage are more about not blotting copybooks ahead of the new contract framework emerging, plus remembering that many people actually doing the work in TOCs are part of the railway family and have a genuine interest in trying to hold things together, given that DfT does not have the skills base to manage this in detail.

 

[paul1609]

There has never been any talk of trying to close down this option. A relatively small number of dedicated rail travellers make use of this opportunity; there is no need to prevent it because the revenue implications are so marginal as to be of no consequence in the grand scheme of things. Post-Covid, any revenue shift is now just 'wooden dollars' so I doubt any operator will be vying to undercut another to claim 'cheapest Gold Card'.

I understand that even in its heyday and with the possible attraction of the swt free tickets the Ryde Esplanade ticket only reached sales iro 200 pa. This is despite its virtues being extolled by Barry Doe in Rail magazine. I doubt anyone is going to break a sweat over those figures tbh.

 

[infobleep]

I understand that even in its heyday and with the possible attraction of the swt free tickets the Ryde Esplanade ticket only reached sales iro 200 pa. This is despite its virtues being extolled by Barry Doe in Rail magazine. I doubt anyone is going to break a sweat over those figures tbh.

Well apart from the odd member of staff who might take exception I guess. Not that hit one yet for the Exter season ticket but I did change the station I buy from in case of issues, as I was aware someone couldn't buy it on gold card stock and had to buy a more expensive one.