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Seriously considering moving to Sligo (or somewhere)

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mikeg

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I'm increasingly finding life in Britain untenable and feel there is no future for me here. I know when I'm not wanted by my own country and have many enemies here. I am under no illusions as to this.

But ever since my European citizenship was wrested from me to placate a bunch of racists from Sunderland, I've been wondering where can I go to?

Obviously the Common Travel Agreement is still in force, so Ireland is an option but the cost of living seems ludicrously high and the wages for my current line of work - a supermarket team leader (not sure I don;t want to gradually change career too though) do not seem to match.

Other countries seem to have lower costs of living and similar wages, I'm thinking Germany in particular, or higher wages and similar standards of living (Netherlands) but immigration rules are very strict and I'm not sure I could get in to one of these nations any more.

My biggest regret is committing to this country. It has just spat in my face constantly. I have tried to serve my country. I was turned away from the army on alleged medical grounds (read: lazy stereotyping). Clearly my country does not want or appreciate me. I used to travel to Rotterdam regularly because former distance relationship which didn't work out and was seriously considering making the move irrespective of this relationship. Again I regret not doing this, things make so much more sense over there.

For sure there are idiots there too but people are much more friendly, are much more reasonable in every sphere of life as far as I can tell. The question is where can I move to (relatively) freely? I mean other than Ireland? I'm getting a feeling of how people in the German Democratic Republic felt.

Of course, there were meant to be alternate opportunities post-Brexit. Where are they? Of course they don't exist.

To be fair, it's not just about Brexit, I just feel we've turned into a nasty, selfish, people, where ignorance and bullying are valued over truth, knowledge and kindness.

Of course I could stay and fight to change things... After all, nothing will change if people just emigrate. This would in many ways be my preferred option, but has thus far met with little success. Any suggestions?
 
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Shaw S Hunter

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I really wouldn't take the military rejection so personally. Although the commitment to numbers of personnel has varied over the years there is rarely any shortage of applicants and sometimes interest approaches that seen in traincrew positions. As such the recruitment process normally has the "luxury" of being able to reject anyone who is less than A1 medically no matter how trivial the cause.

I must admit if I was considrably younger I would be in a similar frame of mind. As such I would have to agree about the Netherlands being a very attractive possibility though you would have to adjust to the tedious lack of scenery and a climate even damper, for the most part, than ours. As for staying to "fight the good fight" I wouldn't give it any longer than the next General Election. Unless you win big on the lottery!
 

AlterEgo

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I suppose the key word is "freely", I assume the OP wishes to simply move somewhere where they will be grateful to have him and lay out the red carpet for a stranger with no preconditions.

Unfortunately, other than Ireland, there aren't really many (any?) places which have unlimited freedom to emigrate from the UK without requiring a visa.

The cost of living in Ireland is high, yes, especially housing, which has been a boiling frog for some time.
 

LSWR Cavalier

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I would fancy Sligo if I had my time again. If you live in the Irish Republic for five years, you can apply for an Irish passport, then you can move to Germany or Nederland.

I would try it, people who change country now have it much easier than emigrants to Australia or America in the colonial times.
 

mikeg

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Unfortunately, other than Ireland, there aren't really many (any?) places which have unlimited freedom to emigrate from the UK without requiring a visa.


That's sad. There used to be 27 such places. I think even if I lived abroad only for a period of time it would be good. Broaden my horizons and all that. Did some research and apparently Panama and Belize are quite easy but have to say that would well and truly be a leap in the dark. If I were to start a business Montenegro is apparently good, and at least I'd get to do the Belgrade to Bar line more easily! The other easy one is Thailand but I wouldn't touch it on account of its military junta and outrageous criminal justice system whereby you can easily be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 

chorleyjeff

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I'm increasingly finding life in Britain untenable and feel there is no future for me here. I know when I'm not wanted by my own country and have many enemies here. I am under no illusions as to this. But ever since my European citizenship was wrested from me to placate a bunch of racists from Sunderland, I've been wondering where can I go to? Obviously the Common Travel Agreement is still in force, so Ireland is an option but the cost of living seems ludicrously high and the wages for my current line of work - a supermarket team leader (not sure I don;t want to gradually change career too though) do not seem to match. Other countries seem to have lower costs of living and similar wages, I'm thinking Germany in particular, or higher wages and similar standards of living (Netherlands) but immigration rules are very strict and I'm not sure I could get in to one of these nations anymore. My biggest regret is committing to this country. It has just spat in my face constantly. I have tried to serve my country. I was turned away from the army on alleged medical grounds (read: lazy stereotyping). Clearly my country does not want or appreciate me. I used to travel to Rotterdam regularly because former distance relationship which didn't work out and was seriously considering making the move irrespective of this relationship. Again I regret not doing this, things make so much more sense over there.
For sure there are idiots there too but people are much more friendly, are much more reasonable in every sphere of life as far as I can tell. The question is where can I move to (relatively) freely? I mean other than Ireland? I'm getting a feeling of how people in the German Democratic Republic felt. Of course, there were meant to be alternate opportunities post-Brexit. Where are they? Of course they don't exist.

To be fair, it's not just about Brexit, I just feel we've turned into a nasty, selfish, people, where ignorance and bullying are valued over truth, knowledge and kindness.

Of course I could stay and fight to change things... After all, nothing will change if people just emigrate. This would in many ways be my preferred option, but has thus far met with little success. Any suggestions?

There is no such thing as European citizenship.
Enemies can be found or created anywhere.
Seems you may well find similar problems elsewhere.
My grandmother, born 1882 near Sligo called Ireland "that damned priest ridden society", and I guess your view of the UK may be replicated by people in other countries based on personal experiences. Ireland may face more economic problems in due course when the benefits of low corporate taxation are phased out.
Voting for Brexit was, in the main, not done by a bunch of rascists from anywhere. Unfortunately rascists pop up in all sorts of places eg the respectable gentlefolk of Yorkshire Cricket Club. But, believe it or not, rascists exist in very many societies eg try parts of Eastern Europe I know about.
What has your post to do with UK Railways ?
 

The exile

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Again I regret not doing this, things make so much more sense over there.
Beware of falling into "the grass is greener" trap. Places that seem wonderful (and wonderfully organised) from the perspective of a visitor (however frequent) sometimes lose that shine when you're living there permanently - particularly as you probably won't fall into the category of being a linguistic minority that "systems" will feel a need to be sympathetic to. Make sure that if you go anywhere it's because you positively want to go there, rather than simply positively wanting to get away from here....
 

LSWR Cavalier

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If I were in your situation I would certainly go to Sligo, no need to learn a new language yet.

You can learn and grow, and you can always go back 'home' later if you do not like it. Plenty of people emigrate, then go back later (George Lansbury, Frank McCourt).

You could take evening classes there in German. Or Irish Gaelic.
 

duncanp

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I would research the healthcare system in the Irish Republic before considering a move there.

You have to pay €100 to visit A&E if you haven't visited a GP first, and you have to pay around €45 to visit a GP.

I would echo the comments of others that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

It is one thing to travel to a foreign country as a visitor, it is another thing to live there long term.
 

Starmill

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I would fancy Sligo if I had my time again. If you live in the Irish Republic for five years, you can apply for an Irish passport, then you can move to Germany or Nederland.

I would try it, people who change country now have it much easier than emigrants to Australia or America in the colonial times.
Be careful, as application for Irish naturalisation is a high bar. One becomes eligible to apply once one has five years' residence history, but an application being accepted is by no means guaranteed. It is unlikely to be wise to suggest that you're applying to become Irish in order to gain the right to live and work permanently in Germany.
 

Lucan

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I wish the OP luck in finding less racist countries than the UK.
Indeed. Everyone of non-British origin I have known has been more racist than the average Brit. For example I had a black girlfriend who would not go into certain parts of town because "there were too many West Indians there", she being from Gabon herself.
 

duncanp

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Indeed. Everyone of non-British origin I have known has been more racist than the average Brit. For example I had a black girlfriend who would not go into certain parts of town because "there were too many West Indians there", she being from Gabon herself.

Which gives the lie to the theory that only white people can be racist, often peddled in certain parts of the media.
 

tbtc

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ever since my European citizenship was wrested from me to placate a bunch of racists from Sunderland, I've been wondering where can I go to?

I voted Remain, I'd love Britain to rejoin the EU in the long term, but I do get annoyed at Sunderland being shorthand for Brexit

If my maths are correct, it's number eighty one in the list of places that had the biggest pro-leave votes - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028 - 61.3% of people voted out - it's nowhere near the top - whilst some of the places higher up on the list have similar reputations for being big "leave" areas (Stoke tends to feature on the list of "places that the BBC used to wander around to pigeonhole passers by into an opinion"), I don't recall anyone blaming the people of Corby/ Basildon/ Tamworth for us leaving the EU

I guess that there are two reasons for Sunderland's reputation:

Firstly because it was the first significant place to declare for "leave" on the night of the Referendum - which is more about the fact that they count ballots pretty fast on Wearside, rather than any huge "leave" vote (but they don't deserve to be damned just for counting quickly)

Secondly, because the Brexiters seized on Sunderland as a story to tell of the "left behind white working class", trying to form a narrative that Brexit was the marginalised/ traditional voters, and therefore somehow more "honest" (rather than coming from a mixture of people voting for a mixture of reasons)

I just say this because it troubles me that pro-EU people are somehow blaming places like Sunderland for the vote (when there were dozens of places with bigger votes, including cities like Hull and Wakefield) - yet it always seems Sunderland that people sneer about
 

tbtc

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You make a fair point @tbtc

Maybe I should retract my comment.

I take your points re the other stuff - I've only been to Sligo once but loved the place - I can see the temptation to move - I despair sometimes at what Britain appears to be running into (or revealing itself to be) - I think that Covid/ Ukraine are going to get the blame for a lot of the problems that the people living here will suffer over the next decade but they are going to be the "scapegoats" to distract us from the self inflicted problems

(I just get chippy when the north of England gets tarnished as the "ignorant racists" when there were more Leavers in places like Basildon, but that spoils the "left behind/ marginalised/ white working class" narrative that Brexiters want to tell)
 

mikeg

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Again you have a point. And re Sligo I chose it mainly as it's one of the few places in Ireland with reasonable housing costs

I'm also from the north of England. If anything a more backwards place in the north than Sunderland which has actually pretty pretty much always voted Tory I don't have a problem with all Tories or even all Brexit voters, it's those who can't admit this was what they were voting for and continue to be nasty.
I often get that sort of person in my line of work.
 

AlterEgo

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In your mind perhaps. But I think reality is somewhat different.
I’m glad to see you only push back about whether it is controversial or not, rather than the facts.

Listen to what black immigrants in particular have to say about living in Ireland. Ireland is a very racist country to people who have a different skin colour.

You get the bronze medal position in this study, for example: https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2019-being-black-in-the-eu-summary_en.pdf

The UK sits comfortably next to the bottom. The UK has a big race problem which needs sorting out, but anyone claiming “Ireland is less racist” is myopic.
 

permarquis

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I'm increasingly finding life in Britain untenable and feel there is no future for me here.
For what it's worth from a stranger on a forum, I hope you're doing okay. If you don't mind me asking, what age are you, roughly, and where are you from? It just helps to put your perspective in context a bit before I try and dole out any advice.
 

Techniquest

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For what it's worth from a stranger on a forum, I hope you're doing okay. If you don't mind me asking, what age are you, roughly, and where are you from? It just helps to put your perspective in context a bit before I try and dole out any advice.

I rarely tread the waters of the General Discussion sector, but today (possibly like yourself) I felt compelled to read this thread. Initially, I was of the view of 'Well if you don't like it, go and move then', I must confess.

However that view has changed during the thread, and reading your post tapped on the sympathy part of my brain. It reminded me I've wanted to do similar before now, maybe not as drastic a move but the same sort of goal.

Whatever @mikeg is going through, I hope it is nothing too serious. At the minimum, should they decide to leave the UK, I hope they come back to this thread and tell us what happened/where they went and so on. I'm really curious!

For what it's worth, I couldn't do it. Very occasionally, I think I could but then I have a holiday and the return to British soil is just so nice that I couldn't emigrate. Holidays, absolutely, but leaving on a permanent basis is not me.
 

102 fan

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'But ever since my European citizenship was wrested from me to placate a bunch of racists from Sunderland, I've been wondering where can I go to?'

It was sneering and condescending views like that that created the leave vote, and created the Tories majority in the last election. Do you have a problem with a majority decision?
 

RT4038

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'But ever since my European citizenship was wrested from me to placate a bunch of racists from Sunderland, I've been wondering where can I go to?'

It was sneering and condescending views like that that created the leave vote, and created the Tories majority in the last election. Do you have a problem with a majority decision?
I think this point has been dealt with in posts #15 & 16?
 

RT4038

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And what's your view on the topic?
I have lived, and worked, in three different countries. Each have had a pretty much equal number of positive and negative attributes. However, an individual's view on these are subjective (and how much weight you put to each) and therefore the choice is to live where the combination best suits. There is no place that only has positives! This is really down to the individual - others can advise with their opinions [some people have in above posts], but this can only be their opinions as they do not know the precise circumstances/feelings/views of another individual.

As far as 'majority views' are concerned, one does not have to like or agree with that view or the people who hold that view, just because they are the majority, however small. Goodness, where would we be if we had to! However, in a democracy one has to live within that view, or leave the country, and/or campaign to change the view. The size of the majority and your view of the chances of change will no doubt determine the course of action.
 

nw1

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I would imagine you could emigrate pretty much anywhere (within reason) but there will be a good deal more bureaucracy than before Brexit with no guarantee of success.

This is most unfortunate, and I do not understand why proponents of Brexit bang on about "freedom" and "less bureaucracy". It is quite the opposite, from where I am standing Brexit means much less freedom and much more bureaucracy.

I'd also say that our geographical area of complete freedom of movement compares poorly with other Western countries, not just within Europe but also outside. While (AFAIK) US citizens have no automatic freedom of movement outside the USA, at least they can move freely within the USA which is a huge and very varied area.

I do tend to agree that working-class people have unfairly got the blame for Brexit, when plenty of working-class people (IMX) are Remainers, or neutral on the matter, and plenty of Brexit supporters are middle-class Daily Express readers.

My long-term plan is to attempt to emigrate I have to admit, unless things revert to how they were in the 1990s and 2000s. It's not just Brexit,it's partly the weather (I am getting fed up of 4pm sunsets in mid-winter, dull and wet winters, and cool, cloudy summers that have prevailed since around 2007). Also I think that England has (ironically - and for reasons unrelated to Brexit) lost a lot of its charm and character that it still had 20-odd years ago while some other European countries have maintained theirs. Luckily I do have personal connections which might make things easier for me to emigrate - but sadly not everyone will have this advantage.

I guess people did emigrate before the EU existed, so it must be possible - just more difficult.
 
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LSWR Cavalier

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If property is cheap in Sligo, maybe wages are 'cheap' too.

You could try getting a job with an international company in the UK, some firms send people abroad for a while, to English-speaking countries even.

P+O has been mentioned elsewhere, do they employ staff with languages at their terminals on the European 'mainland'?
 
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