Dunblane - Perth - Dundee - Aberdeen electrification updates

[snowball]

I think this is a significant enough development to deserve a thread of its own.

A short while ago Marty82 posted, in the thread "Potential rail improvements around Aberdeen and North East Scotland", this link to a planning application by Network Rail to Aberdeen City Council:

220591/ESC | Proposed provision of Overhead Line Equipment (OLE) and gantry demolition/modifications/renewal of identified bridges, works to stations, modifications to identified viaducts/structures, closure of identified level cross

publicaccess.aberdeencity.gov.uk

Many of the documents at the link (click on the word "Documents") are not restricted to the section within Aberdeen city. It's a proposal to electrify Dunblane to Aberdeen via Perth and Dundee.

The most interesting document is the one labelled "Appendix D - Simplified Intervention List", which is a table listing 189 places where work is required between Allan Water, Dunblane, and Union Bridge, Aberdeen.

 

[Haribolover06]

184 293/001 Footbridge Aberdeen South Luggage Footbridge NJ 94146 05843 Demolition Aberdeen City Network Rail Cat A Listed LB20673 Partially in City Centre CA Listed Building Consent Unlikely.

185 293/001A Footbridge Aberdeen (centre) Footbridge NJ 94146 05843 Bridge Replacement Aberdeen City Network Rail Cat A Listed LB20673 Partially in City Centre CA Listed Building Consent.

186 293/002 Footbridge Aberdeen North Luggage Footbridge NJ 94146 05844 Demolition Aberdeen City Network Rail Cat A Listed LB20673 Partially in City Centre CA Listed Building Consent.


Image - Google Maps
As per Appendix D - Simplified Intervention List

The Currently Disused North and South Luggage Footbridges will be demolished.

The Currently in use Centre Footbridge which links Platform 7S and 7N and the South College Street car park will be Replaced and presumably raised to accommodate the OHLE.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

189 places do on the face of it seem a lot of interventions but glad to see this document(s) in the public domain. Thanks for starting the thread.

Many of the documents at the link (click on the word "Documents") are not restricted to the section within Aberdeen city. It's a proposal to electrify Dunblane to Aberdeen via Perth and Dundee.

Politically, 3 of the seven cities linked. Just Inverness to feature now.

 

[snowball]

189 places do on the face of it seem a lot of interventions but glad to see this document(s) in the public domain.

I think it's about 110 miles [later edit: actually 120] so perhaps not a huge number for the distance.

I haven't studied the list properly yet but I noticed at least 3 alternative sites for feeder stations.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I think it's about 110 miles so perhaps not a huge number for the distance.

I haven't studied the list properly yet but I noticed at least 3 alternative sites for feeder stations.

I will try and start studying it tonight. Feeder stations interest me greatly.

 

[59CosG95]

Very big development indeed!
I wonder if any of the other authorities (e.g. Perth, Dundee etc.) have similar documents on their sites?

 

[Marty82]

I think this is a significant enough development to deserve a thread of its own.

A short while ago Marty82 posted, in the thread "Potential rail improvements around Aberdeen and North East Scotland", this link to a planning application by Network Rail to Aberdeen City Council:

220591/ESC | Proposed provision of Overhead Line Equipment (OLE) and gantry demolition/modifications/renewal of identified bridges, works to stations, modifications to identified viaducts/structures, closure of identified level cross

publicaccess.aberdeencity.gov.uk

Many of the documents at the link (click on the word "Documents") are not restricted to the section within Aberdeen city. It's a proposal to electrify Dunblane to Aberdeen via Perth and Dundee.

The most interesting document is the one labelled "Appendix D - Simplified Intervention List", which is a table listing 189 places where work is required between Allan Water, Dunblane, and Union Bridge, Aberdeen.

Thanks for that. Wasn't sure what the best thread was for it.

Didn't think we would see this application in 2022 to be honest.

 

[Davester50]

I was in Aberdeen last week, and there's work in the station.
I wonder if the timing is related to it.

 

[Marty82]

184 293/001 Footbridge Aberdeen South Luggage Footbridge NJ 94146 05843 Demolition Aberdeen City Network Rail Cat A Listed LB20673 Partially in City Centre CA Listed Building Consent Unlikely.

185 293/001A Footbridge Aberdeen (centre) Footbridge NJ 94146 05843 Bridge Replacement Aberdeen City Network Rail Cat A Listed LB20673 Partially in City Centre CA Listed Building Consent.

186 293/002 Footbridge Aberdeen North Luggage Footbridge NJ 94146 05844 Demolition Aberdeen City Network Rail Cat A Listed LB20673 Partially in City Centre CA Listed Building Consent.

View attachment 114469
Image - Google Maps
As per Appendix D - Simplified Intervention List

The Currently Disused North and South Luggage Footbridges will be demolished.

The Currently in use Centre Footbridge which links Platform 7S and 7N and the South College Street car park will be Replaced and presumably raised to accommodate the OHLE.

I always look up at the old North and South bridges - will be a shame to lose them.

I wonder how high the central bridge will have to be raised. The new first class lounge is at the top of the stairs to the bridge so will the access to it have to be adapted when it has only just been built? Will probably also involved the glass link bridge to the College Street car park. Although the station has use of some floors of it I believe it is owned by Union Square shopping centre.

I was in Aberdeen last week, and there's work in the station.
I wonder if the timing is related to it.

The work going on is to move the first class lounge onto the bridge with the ticket office moving to below it and the information boards.

The old ticket office and first class lounge are becoming a retail unit. The Pumpkin and Aberdeen Hero units have had glass extensions added and are advertised for rent. The WHSmith unit has also had similar work.

There are also behind the scenes works related to staff facilities for Scotrail and LNER.

 

[lachlan]

I was in Aberdeen last week, and there's work in the station.
I wonder if the timing is related to it.

They've been working on it for a while now, it involves a new ticket office, first class lounge, and shops. I don't think there's anything going on related to the railway itself but could be wrong

 

[och aye]

Thanks for that. Wasn't sure what the best thread was for it.

Didn't think we would see this application in 2022 to be honest.

Indeed. This is quite out of the blue for 2022.

I wonder how this will tie into the remodelling of Perth station?

 

[Starmill]

It's a surprising amount of work to have done already, but it's a natural extension of the application last year regarding Haymarket - Dalmeny. Substantial work is unlikely to begin until East Kilbride and Barrhead are complete, and it's such a big programme that separately funding for remodeling at Perth and other resignalling, crossing closures or upgrades etc will need to be found. It's also a possibility that W12 clearance for freight services will be included in the scope.

 

[snowball]

It's a bigger mileage than Gretna to Glasgow or Berwick to Edinburgh, or even Berwick to Carstairs via Edinburgh, so it must be the biggest single electrification scheme ever done in Scotland, unless possibly you were to add together a whole bunch of lines around Glasgow and count them as one (I haven't tried calculating that).

Feeder stations are always mentioned as long lead-time items and I haven't heard that any applications for grid connections have yet been made.

If methods previously discussed for Scotland are used, they may begin with partial electrification and battery trains, moving to full route electrification gradually, but the "simplified list of interventions" covers the whole route.

 

[mcmad]

think some people are getting ahead of themselves, it an application for the environmental assessment. The actual wiring will almost certainly be broken down into smaller chunks rather than 1 big scheme

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The actual wiring will almost certainly be broken down into smaller chunks rather than 1 big scheme

Which is fair enough and reasonable. It will give the supply chain confidence and having an enhancements pipeline is really good news.

 

[MadMac]

It's a surprising amount of work to have done already, but it's a natural extension of the application last year regarding Haymarket - Dalmeny. Substantial work is unlikely to begin until East Kilbride and Barrhead are complete, and it's such a big programme that separately funding for remodeling at Perth and other resignalling, crossing closures or upgrades etc will need to be found. It's also a possibility that W12 clearance for freight services will be included in the scope.

Signalling is certainly a major item. Notwithstanding the various mechanical installations, Perth is 60 with a lot of "difficult to maintain" equipment, Aberdeen 41 and Dundee 37.

 

[snowball]

think some people are getting ahead of themselves, it an application for the environmental assessment. The actual wiring will almost certainly be broken down into smaller chunks rather than 1 big scheme

Nevertheless it would be nice to see, for example, a comparable application for the same number of miles of the MML.

 

[Falcon1200]

The Currently Disused North and South Luggage Footbridges will be demolished.

The Currently in use Centre Footbridge which links Platform 7S and 7N and the South College Street car park will be Replaced and presumably raised to accommodate the OHLE.

Until the route north from Aberdeen is electrified (a long way away I would think) is there any desperate need to deal with the bridges now, ie would wiring the south end bay platforms not be sufficient for the train service ? Anything running though Aberdeen would have to be diesel or bi-mode anyway.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Until the route north from Aberdeen is electrified (a long way away I would think) is there any desperate need to deal with the bridges now, ie would wiring the south end bay platforms not be sufficient for the train service ? Anything running though Aberdeen would have to be diesel or bi-mode anyway.

On the basis going west from Aberdeen would be done eventually it would get all the disruption in Aberdeen done at once rather than come back in 5 / 10 or whenever years, and would enable a bi-mode train going through beyond Aberdeen to be on the juice into the station rather than having to changeover on the approach.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Until the route north from Aberdeen is electrified (a long way away I would think) is there any desperate need to deal with the bridges now, ie would wiring the south end bay platforms not be sufficient for the train service ? Anything running though Aberdeen would have to be diesel or bi-mode anyway.

On the basis going west from Aberdeen would be done eventually it would get all the disruption in Aberdeen done at once rather than come back in 5 / 10 or whenever years, and would enable a bi-mode train going through beyond Aberdeen to be on the juice into the station rather than having to changeover on the approach.

 

[Falcon1200]

On the basis going west from Aberdeen would be done eventually it would get all the disruption in Aberdeen done at once

Perhaps, but OTOH it increases the cost and complexity of what is already an absolutely massive project.

 

[cf111]

Which is fair enough and reasonable. It will give the supply chain confidence and having an enhancements pipeline is really good news.

Indeed, and the LNER services can use the wires that go up rather than having to wait for the whole project to be completed.

 

[Rick1984]

What exactly are the Luggage Footbridges?

 

[CEN60]

Until the route north from Aberdeen is electrified (a long way away I would think) is there any desperate need to deal with the bridges now, ie would wiring the south end bay platforms not be sufficient for the train service ? Anything running though Aberdeen would have to be diesel or bi-mode anyway.



As well as the capacity issue at Perth (and elsewhere) the journey time penalty would surely be unacceptable, plus a service between Edinburgh and Dundee via Fife would still have to run anyway.

Barnhill Jcn just the other side of the Tay Viaduct is getting renewed soon with a speed increase on a faster turnout, along with some associated curve works I understand.

 

[D6130]

What exactly are the Luggage Footbridges?

Footbridges which were provided only for the use of luggage trollies, parcels and mail traffic....and prohibited for passenger use - mainly for safety reasons.

 

[92002]

Perhaps, but OTOH it increases the cost and complexity of what is already an absolutely massive project.

Work is well underway for a scheme from Haymarket to Dalmeny. A natural progression to that would be Dalmeny to Dundee via both Kirkcaldy and Dunfermline. Giving electrification of the Edinburgh Fife Circle trains.
From the other route North from Glasgow a scheme from Dunblane to Dundee via a modernised Perth layout to Dundee is also in the 10 year plan. With a final Dubdee to Aberdeen scheme. All of which all needs findong

 

[NotATrainspott]

I'm pretty sure that the plan is for discontinuous electrification, at least initially. Wiring up major terminals early is critical, as these will be the best places for trains to charge up their batteries to handle the non-electrified sections. This would be a totally different style of electrification than we are used to, with islands of electrified lines in almost random locations.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Conspicuous by their absence from appendix D are Moncrieffe Tunnel and the Tay viaduct in Perth.

 

[snowball]

Is anything known about timescales for addressing the issues at Perth station?

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this is an infrastructure updates thread.

For discussion of a speculative nature, please use the Speculative Discussion section.

Some posts have been moved to the following threads:

• Could LNER bi-modes have engines removed once the line to Aberdeen is electrified?
• Could electrification via Dundee see the diversion of more services via Stirling?

Many thanks