What will happen to ex-WSMR stock?

[rail-britain]

Wonder what will happen to the coaching stock etc if the company has folded - would be a huge shame to see it stuck in a siding somewhere

The locos will return back to EWS/DBS, painted into Grand Central livery
The coaches are to be painted into Grand Central livery
For use on their Blackpool - Euston service

 

[ainsworth74]

The locos will return back to EWS/DBS, painted into Grand Central livery
The coaches are to be painted into Grand Central livery
For use on their Blackpool - Euston service

Bit presumptuous of DBS seeing as Grand Central haven't run the right to run the service yet and it wouldn't be starting for sometime anyway even if they had. What's your source?

 

[Geezertronic]

Bit presumptuous of DBS seeing as Grand Central haven't run the right to run the service yet and it wouldn't be starting for sometime anyway even if they had. What's your source?

Probably the same as the three pantographs source...

 

[ainsworth74]

Probably the same as the three pantographs source...

 

[The Planner]

The locos will return back to EWS/DBS, painted into Grand Central livery
The coaches are to be painted into Grand Central livery
For use on their Blackpool - Euston service

Source ?? sounds cobblers to me as Ive heard GC have got 67s from somewhere else and Chiltern will more than likely have a use for them.

Somewhere else alledgedly being the ones off the Cardiff Tauntons and the ones off the Fife Circle.

 

[kyrano]

Wonder what will happen to the coaching stock etc if the company has folded - would be a huge shame to see it stuck in a siding somewhere

The stock will go to Grand central for there new Blackpool Euston service, also kings cross to Ilkley.

 

[ainsworth74]

The stock will go to Grand central for there new Blackpool Euston service, also kings cross to Ilkley.

Source?

 

[TDK]

Office of Rail Regulator
Their application is based on Class 67 and Mark 3 coaches
Grand Central were questioned over this and had assurances the rolling stock would be available from early 2011
Given all the stock was already in use (as at January 2011) the Rail Regulator finally had it confirmed from DBS that they would indeed be able to supply the required rolling stock, as advised on 11 January 2011

Route training can then commence later this year, for the service to commence early in 2012, as per the application

The Rail Regulator is likely to respond within the next 14 days, but given WSR has now announced service closure it looks like this will satisify that final requirement

Equally, a parallel company of Grand Central has now been setup to operate all their WCML services
Ironically, this includes a Shrewsbury - Euston service

Still waiting for a source Rail Britain - Is this yet another of your guesses? Post a link to provide evidence of this

 

[captainbigun]

Still waiting for a source Rail Britain - Is this yet another of your guesses? Post a link to provide evidence of this

Agreed, far from a done deal I believe. Not sure why the stock would just go to GC...who owns it? I believe the application proposed 90s...which DB have since put up for tender. I don't believe anyone in their right mind would try and run a service on the WC with 67s, paths will be horrendous.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't believe anyone in their right mind would try and run a service on the WC with 67s, paths will be horrendous.

Maybe so, but the application is there to see on ORR's website...

 

[The Planner]

Office of Rail Regulator
Their application is based on Class 67 and Mark 3 coaches
Grand Central were questioned over this and had assurances the rolling stock would be available from early 2011
Given all the stock was already in use (as at January 2011) the Rail Regulator finally had it confirmed from DBS that they would indeed be able to supply the required rolling stock, as advised on 11 January 2011

Route training can then commence later this year, for the service to commence early in 2012, as per the application

The Rail Regulator is likely to respond within the next 14 days, but given WSR has now announced service closure it looks like this will satisify that final requirement

Equally, a parallel company of Grand Central has now been setup to operate all their WCML services
Ironically, this includes a Shrewsbury - Euston service

As I said in my previous post, that isnt the case. GC wont be having WSMRs stock. GC are likely to be acquiring the 67s used on the Cardiff Tauntons and Fife Circle runs. You are just making assumptions and claiming them as fact.

 

[Daimler]

As I said in my previous post, that isnt the case. GC wont be having WSMRs stock. GC are likely to be acquiring the 67s used on the Cardiff Tauntons and Fife Circle runs. You are just making assumptions and claiming them as fact.

According to Adrian Shooter on BBC Radio Shropshire this morning, the stock will be 're-leased within the company'.

It was very sad to hear so many people from the area ringing in to express how upset they are at what's happened - everyone has a good word to say for the company, and especially its staff. To see their hard work and commitment they put in amount to nothing is an awful shame.

 

[Crossover]

Wonder what will happen to the coaching stock etc if the company has folded - would be a huge shame to see it stuck in a siding somewhere

 

[anthony263]

Wonder what will happen to the coaching stock etc if the company has folded - would be a huge shame to see it stuck in a siding somewhere

I suspect the loco hauled stock will be transfered to Chiltern for their loco hauled London marylebone - Birmingham services

maybe chiltern could look at running some of the services

 

[Simon Poole]

I would say Chiltern Railways becuase read or heard somewhere which i can't remember but my the end of this year, half or 3/4 of the Chiltern Railways Services would be Loco-hauled

The Class 67's since they arrived in the UK is one of the class of Diesel Trains that has been struggling to find work on Trains

 

[ainsworth74]

I would say Chiltern Railways becuase read or heard somewhere which i can't remember but my the end of this year, half or 3/4 of the Chiltern Railways Services would be Loco-hauled

I would love to know where all the rolling stock is going to come from for that!

The Class 67's since they arrived in the UK is one of the class of Diesel Trains that has been struggling to find work on Trains

Perhaps in the early days after their post traffic dried up but these days it looks more like there's not enough what with all the services they seem to be involved in.

 

[Voyager 2093]

I would love to know where all the rolling stock is going to come from for that!



Perhaps in the early days after their post traffic dried up but these days it looks more like there's not enough what with all the services they seem to be involved in.

You and me both. 3/4 or 75% is a bold figure. Where would the 165s and 168s then go. I reckon the 67+MK3+DVT sets will be re-branded into something such as 'Chiltern Express' however I don't think they will be repainted.

Wasted expenditure me thinks!

 

[fgwrich]

I would love to know where all the rolling stock is going to come from for that!



Perhaps in the early days after their post traffic dried up but these days it looks more like there's not enough what with all the services they seem to be involved in.

DB Regio have more than enough Mk3s on their books at the moment - and that's exlcuding the former Wrexham sets which at least are soon to find use with Chiltern (hopefully with buffets and staff) no doubt on the Marylebone to Moor Street Mainline services...

Can't remember the exact Mk3s DB has, but these do include the former DRS Mk3s (Bar the sole air con Mk2 - still owned by DRS, and the two former Mk1s - formally owned by The Stobart Group, both now Cargo D), and several Ex Virgin liveried examples currently sat around in Wilsden...

 

[Shrub Hill]

my guess is they will stay with chiltern, the problem with the 67's on long distance routes is the size of the fuel tank, 1200 litres i believe

 

[MCR247]

I would say Chiltern Railways becuase read or heard somewhere which i can't remember but my the end of this year, half or 3/4 of the Chiltern Railways Services would be Loco-hauled

Did you actually think about that before you posted it? Didn't think so.

 

[tbtc]

Where would the 165s and 168s then go

Presumably they'd stay with Chiltern to use on increased services elsewhere (e.g. Marylebone - Oxford extension)?

However, the four coach 168s could be very valuable to certain other TOCs - some of those would solve the problems on Cardiff - Portsmouth or Liverpool - Nottingham (etc)

 

[Class 466]

dont forget GOCO!

 

[dk1]

The loco-hauled plan is for sets consisting 67/5xTSO/DVT. Chiltern will have no use for WSMRs RFM or FO vehicles.

 

[route:oxford]

dont forget GOCO!

Very true.

I'm rather hoping that it starts reasonably soon, ideally with "GoCo only" fares - Didcot is the cut-off for the former Network South East area so there is a significant jump in fares for routes that cross the border.

Which would be better stock though? The 168s or 67+LHCS+DVT?

 

[jopsuk]

As Chiltern run Standard-only, I wonder if by Monday they'll have re-marshalled the WSMR stock into two Standard-only rakes, allowing them to take the blue-grey & ex-Virgin rake out?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The loco-hauled plan is for sets consisting 67/5xTSO/DVT. Chiltern will have no use for WSMRs RFM or FO vehicles.

Whilst the Restaurant coaches are a different proposition, isn't the only difference between a Mrk 3 FO and TSO the seating? They've the same bodyshell, same window arrangement.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Is Wikipedia correct in saying the WSMR Standard Class stock still has orriginal BR Intercity seating, even after the referb? If so, is this the case on Chiltern's loco services also, or would Chiltern be replacing them?

 

[sprinterguy]

my guess is they will stay with chiltern, the problem with the 67's on long distance routes is the size of the fuel tank, 1200 litres i believe

More like 1200 gallons (Probably 1100 really): 67s have a 4927 litre fuel tank, which is slightly less than a low emission “shed”, so their use on particularly extensive diagrams is probably a bit limited.

The 67s were unfortunate in being ordered and delivered a very short time before the postal traffic they were designed for dried up. It’s good to see that they are now finding some use on passenger workings, however I don’t see the fleet of 30 locos as being particularly intensively used.

As concerns the WSMR rolling stock, I reckon that two rakes will go to ATW if/when they switch to class 67 operation on the WAG Express: The rest will go to Chiltern for an interim period at least: I’ve heard no progress on Chiltern’s refurbished mark 3 fleet, and the carriages owned by DB designated for that work could easily be refurbished for the planned Grand Central services instead. Hasn’t there been talk of Chiltern setting up a “Business Class” on the loco hauled trains? If so, then the Wrexham and Shropshire rakes are perfect for the job: Stick an extra Cargo-D mark 3 into each set and voila, three loco hauled five carriage rakes.

I’d hope that new homes can be found for the carriages quickly, as the idea of carriages that have only been recently refurbished languishing at Long Marston is crazy.

 

[dk1]

Whilst the Restaurant coaches are a different proposition, isn't the only difference between a Mrk 3 FO and TSO the seating? They've the same bodyshell, same window arrangement.

As far am i am aware they are the same bodyshell. its just the seating layout which would need to be altered. As with most mk3 operators over the years it is easy to substitute a declassified FO for a TSO but you will lose around 30 or so seats.

 

[sprinterguy]

Is Wikipedia correct in saying the WSMR Standard Class stock still has orriginal BR Intercity seating, even after the referb? If so, is this the case on Chiltern's loco services also, or would Chiltern be replacing them?

Yes, original Intercity 70 seats re-upholstered and rearranged a bit. I don’t know what Chilterns’ plans for the interiors would be though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Whilst the Restaurant coaches are a different proposition, isn't the only difference between a Mrk 3 FO and TSO the seating? They've the same bodyshell, same window arrangement.

It’s quite easy to convert a FO to a TSO: Identical bodyshells are used, and the seats are secured in position by a standard floor rail that fits either 2+1 or 2+2 seating.

 

[saracen43]

Supposing the rolling stock and locos do get transferred to chiltern,when is the earliest we could see them working the extra Moor st to M, bone services.