Rail strikes discussion

[142blue]

Well the rhetoric from our government has made me even more determined

 

[Christmas]

I am not going against them. I respect their right to strike. What I don’t understand is why my right to go to work can’t be equally respected. I haven’t joined the union in the first place, neither obviously voted.
What do you mean by professional and that is it?
Once again, as you spoke about democracy, how can that have any meaning when people can not express their views freely? How can I not think that people that think like myself are either silent to avoid discrimination or simply pushed away from the industry by that bully and intimidation that you say it will probably happen?
I already understood that if I chose to work there will be certain rejection, no need to clarify that, what I am trying to gather is an understanding of the reasons behind it, in order to make a decision that I can live with.

Serious question here. Should your colleagues strike and you continue to go into work and, after striking, your colleagues secure their objectives, better conditions and a higher salary; will you opt out and reject their hard fought for victory?
In other words you would have sacrificed nothing, nor played any part in securing an improved deal so will you then ensure that you do not benefit from it?

 

[windingroad]

Why would you behave like that? If I respect your views, shouldn’t I be able to act according to mine without being discriminated for it?

If you don't mind me asking, what actually are your views when it comes to unions and striking?

I do understand and sympathise with your situation, in the sense that it is never pleasant to feel forced to compromise on your beliefs, but isn't the pragmatic choice just to join your colleagues on strike? Is your opposition to industrial action really so fundamental that you're willing to damage relationships unnecessarily?

 

[nedchester]

Lynch impressive on Sophie Ridge as opposed to Shapps who basically lied through the whole interview.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Serious question here. Should your colleagues strike and you continue to go into work and, after striking, your colleagues secure their objectives, better conditions and a higher salary; will you opt out and reject their hard fought for victory?
In other words you would have sacrificed nothing, nor played any part in securing an improved deal so will you then ensure that you do not benefit from it?

This I want the answer to!

 

[Vespa]

I've got the feeling the strike won't have as much impact as the union hoped, people will change leisure plans, WFH or drive, some like me already have booked a non refundable hotel in London so is committed otherwise I wouldn't have travelled, I've booked a Megabus coach back in case and plan to claim a refund on one part of my ticket, at least it was only £25 return, if it was £135 Avanti first class or £80 standard premium, would very annoyed.

My further trips to London is likely to be by overnight coach instead of trains or drive if the strikes continues.

 

[Christmas]

Can I add my two penneth please. I'm really not up to speed on the reasons for the strike, but I do know that everyone on the railways are working. They're getting decent salaries even with the increasing cost of living, inflation and fuel costs. I'm not working due to disability and all I get is a fixed income, the government won't give me any more money week on week. So from that point, I have little sympathy for a strike based around pay. Why do working people have to go to food banks when even I don't go near them and I cope.

Give me a job on the railway and I'd love the extra money no matter how small or big the salary!

Public opinion is irrelevant in this or any dispute. The public cannot influence any outcome, save for putting pressure on politicians to get it sorted.

There's also nothing stopping you from applying to join the railway in any number of roles as all companies have disability charters and clearly state that your disability will not preclude you from applying for any role you are able to.

 

[GB]

What do you mean by professional and that is it?

Work together to ensure the job gets done as it should. But away from that all the little bits where colleagues get on with each other won't be happening (turn swaps, banter, making brews, leave or RDW swaps etc). No different to if two people don't get on with each other organically.

 

[JohntyRogers]

Can I add my two penneth please. I'm really not up to speed on the reasons for the strike, but I do know that everyone on the railways are working. They're getting decent salaries even with the increasing cost of living, inflation and fuel costs. I'm not working due to disability and all I get is a fixed income, the government won't give me any more money week on week. So from that point, I have little sympathy for a strike based around pay. Why do working people have to go to food banks when even I don't go near them and I cope.

Give me a job on the railway and I'd love the extra money no matter how small or big the salary!

You sir have no money and have to go to the food bank because people like yourself never support any pay rise to any working member of society unless its you. And by that the workers of this country never have any power, the stays quo never changes and all our salaries are pushed down into the toilet. Stop being self focused support any worker in any industry, be it teachers, NHS, fire, police and eventually this country will change and all workers will get a better standard of life. Or just moan when it's not you and play right into the governments hands and we can all continue developing this low salary country whilst bussuiness makes record profits

 

[yorksrob]

Personally I'm sick and tired of the Government harping on about keeping the railway going through lockdown when we were told not to travel.

They need to concentrate on getting the railway running now.

 

[choochoochoo]

The solution to the problems talked about in the Daily Mail article seems to be a personal teleportation device to be issued to every overpaid, workshy, militant Train Driver

But we’d want a technology payment for adopting working practices using a teleporter

 

[Newone2022]

Serious question here. Should your colleagues strike and you continue to go into work and, after striking, your colleagues secure their objectives, better conditions and a higher salary; will you opt out and reject their hard fought for victory?
In other words you would have sacrificed nothing, nor played any part in securing an improved deal so will you then ensure that you do not benefit from it?

Completely agree with your point, to be honest.
If it was for me to decide, I would like the strike to be called off and both parts to keep negotiating things in order to try achieve something in the region of 4%, 5% raise and modernisation that do not involve redundancies or unreasonable deployments.
Would be lying if I say that I would refuse an improved deal if this is achieved, but strictly speaking, I do think that I should not have the right of something that I have made the choice of not compromising/fighting for.

 

[AlterEgo]

But we’d want a technology payment for adopting working practices using a teleporter

Rare bit of good humour in an otherwise depressing thread!

 

[KM1991]

Completely agree with your point, to be honest.
If it was for me to decide, I would like the strike to be called off and both parts to keep negotiating things in order to try achieve something in the region of 4%, 5% raise and modernisation that do not involve redundancies or unreasonable deployments.
Would be lying if I say that I would refuse an improved deal if this is achieved, but strictly speaking, I do think that I should not have the right of something that I have made the choice of not compromising/fighting for.

No modernisation or change of job roles that increases the average hours of the working week, as the DFT are planning, will ever be accepted. Gone are the days that people work more for less/stagnant wages. So 4 or 5% doesn’t even touch the sides.

 

[windingroad]

If it was for me to decide, I would like the strike to be called off and both parts to keep negotiating things in order to try achieve something in the region of 4%, 5% raise and modernisation that do not involve redundancies or unreasonable deployments.

Would be lying if I say that I would refuse an improved deal if this is achieved, but strictly speaking, I do think that I should not have the right of something that I have made the choice of not compromising/fighting for.

So I suppose my question now would be: if you see the benefits of the union and wish them to negotiate for a fair deal, what is the basis of your opposition to membership and/or participating in action? It doesn't feel like you're really so far away from your colleagues on this as you think.

 

[michael74]

Can I add my two penneth please. I'm really not up to speed on the reasons for the strike, but I do know that everyone on the railways are working. They're getting decent salaries even with the increasing cost of living, inflation and fuel costs. I'm not working due to disability and all I get is a fixed income, the government won't give me any more money week on week. So from that point, I have little sympathy for a strike based around pay. Why do working people have to go to food banks when even I don't go near them and I cope.

Give me a job on the railway and I'd love the extra money no matter how small or big the salary!

The NHS is about to be awarded a pay rise, UNISON has already said anything less than 3% for the nurses is not acceptable, do you agree with that?

 

[Newone2022]

Work together to ensure the job gets done as it should. But away from that all the little bits where colleagues get on with each other won't be happening (turn swaps, banter, making brews, leave or RDW swaps etc). No different to if two people don't get on with each other organically.

I believe that what you are defining, specially when it comes to things like swaps or things like that, however impossible to prove, it’s the simplest definition of discrimination (prejudicial treating someone on grounds of their orientation) and it is against the law. Understood from beginning that it will probably happen, and that was the reason I wanted to ask those questions, to try to be in peace with whichever decision I take.

 

[class ep-09]

But we’d want a technology payment for adopting working practices using a teleporter

And 10min “teleporting time” in each direction ))

 

[Twotwo]

Can I add my two penneth please. I'm really not up to speed on the reasons for the strike, but I do know that everyone on the railways are working. They're getting decent salaries even with the increasing cost of living, inflation and fuel costs. I'm not working due to disability and all I get is a fixed income, the government won't give me any more money week on week. So from that point, I have little sympathy for a strike based around pay. Why do working people have to go to food banks when even I don't go near them and I cope.

Give me a job on the railway and I'd love the extra money no matter how small or big the salary!

Haven't commented on this thread but sow this comment so I had to...

I hate this narrative that boomers have, I suffered so I want everyone else to suffer. Just because you get a fixed income from the government due to a diaability doesn't mean everyone should. Maybe want better for others??

Consider yourself lucky you don't have to go food banks. Out of all people, thought someone like you would be more sympathetic towards those who use food banks but clearly your out of touch. Its a real thing by the way!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

A target in Uniform? What about nurses etc, who quite often come into work in uniform at unsociable hours. Should they be allowed to claim for a cab from the NHS?

Nurses should not be coming to/from work in uniform. They should be changing in/out of their uniform at work

 

[michael74]

Nurses should not be coming to/from work in uniform. They should be changing in/out of their uniform at work

What if your hospital does not have sufficient facilities to change?

 

[SJN]

I believe that what you are defining, specially when it comes to things like swaps or things like that, however impossible to prove, it’s the simplest definition of discrimination (prejudicial treating someone on grounds of their orientation) and it is against the law. Understood from beginning that it will probably happen, and that was the reason I wanted to ask those questions, to try to be in peace with whichever decision I take.

Nobody is obliged to swap a shift or rest day with anybody. This is not discrimination. I’ve refused swaps with people simply because I’ve got my own plans & they’re shift doesn’t fit in with them.

 

[Newone2022]

If you don't mind me asking, what actually are your views when it comes to unions and striking?

I do understand and sympathise with your situation, in the sense that it is never pleasant to feel forced to compromise on your beliefs, but isn't the pragmatic choice just to join your colleagues on strike? Is your opposition to industrial action really so fundamental that you're willing to damage relationships unnecessarily?

It’s no so much about striking as such. And I do respect unions, but prefer to take my choices individually.
In this case, I might be wrong, but my economic and social understanding is that the cost of living crisis affects specially the lowest paid individuals and that people well above that getting substantial pay rises just keeps fueling inflation and worsens the issues. If the demands were a 10% raise for lowest paid rail workers, decreasing as salaries go up, my position would be dramatically different.
In simple words, I do believe that in this times, people that earn above average should act with solidarity no only regarding their own industry, but society as a whole.
I do agree that government trying to bully does not help at all, but that is matter of a different conversation.
On the other side, and that’s why I make this questions, it’s not that I want to be some sort of hero, but going to strike against my views only because of fear, only makes you omissive part in a culture of bullying and harassment that should long be gone and is everyone’s responsibility to eradicate, but some people here simply tag as “that’s how life is”

Nobody is obliged to swap a shift or rest day with anybody. This is not discrimination. I’ve refused swaps with people simply because I’ve got my own plans & they’re shift doesn’t fit in with them.

But what you are saying is that people would systematically do it against someone only because of their orientation. That is discrimination.

 

[SJN]

It’s no so much about striking as such. And I do respect unions, but prefer to take my choices individually.
In this case, I might be wrong, but my economic and social understanding is that the cost of living crisis affects specially the lowest paid individuals and that people well above that getting substantial pay rises just keeps fueling inflation and worsens the issues. If the demands were a 10% raise for lowest paid rail workers, decreasing as salaries go up, my position would be dramatically different.
In simple words, I do believe that in this times, people that earn above average should act with solidarity no only regarding their own industry, but society as a whole.
I do agree that government trying to bully does not help at all, but that is matter of a different conversation


But what you are saying is that people would systematically do it against someone only because of their orientation. That is discrimination.

Where have I said that? I just said nobody is obliged to swap shifts. If somebody says no to you, you can’t then immediately assume & accuse them of discrimination.

 

[GB]

But what you are saying is that people would systematically do it against someone only because of their orientation. That is discrimination.

If I don't like someone I don't swap etc, same goes for someone that doesn't like me, I would expect zero favours. That is not discrimination that is part of life. Swapping of turns or rest days etc is not a right, it's a favour and needs both parties to agree to it.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

If the ticket office isn't selling tickets then it is a very expensive waiting room.

Indeed but then why spend money refurbishing it in the first place

At the margins (not Redhill in the rush hour) the usage being quoted is incredibly low, perhaps because unlike on LUL, the world has changed a lot and the agreements haven't.

Agree but my local station is manned for a total of 20hrs a week in the morning as is the next one down the line so they aren't exactly going to save much by shutting them. There is no relief anymore either and until the latest occupant appeared about four months ago it had been shut for months as they couldn't recruit anyone so I can't see that shutting ticket offices is going to close the deficit between revenue and operating costs much. Ultimately driving revenue up is a quicker lever to pull but the DfT has yet to realise that strangling service provision isn't the answer. Also the industry now has a dislocation of resources in both units and staff to either strengthen or run additional services where there is demand (tourist and leisure areas) which isn't an easier fix as they can't be proactive without DfT agreement and they just aren't interested in taking risks on the financial bottom line.

 

[Newone2022]

If I don't like someone I don't swap etc, same goes for someone that doesn't like me, I would expect zero favours. That is not discrimination that is part of life. Swapping of turns or rest days etc is not a right, it's a favour and needs both parties to agree to it.

Disagree, but won’t continue to pursue my point. Thank you for your contribution. Sincerely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As for closing ticket offices, I assume those suggesting or supporting that haven't actually travelled by rail in a while? Especially at large stations (e.g. Bristol Temple Meads as that's what I'm familiar with). Ticket offices at those kind of stations are very heavily used.

Part of the reason for that is that the UI of most TVMs is utterly, utterly awful.

But talking of unions, because there are other means of paying, ticket office strikes will never have any impact. They can't close the railway down like drivers, guards and signallers.

As a regular user of the tube l have to tell you that the closure of most ticket offices caused a number of serious problems many of which persist to this day. Given the mainline system is significantly more complex l am confident that your desired outcome will have similar or worse consequences.

Many of those problems result from LU's overcomplicated fare structure which resulted from Oyster implementing a zonal fare structure designed for paper ticketing.

 

[exbrel]

End of the line for railway ticket offices as sales go online

The rail industry has drawn up plans to phase out paper tickets and either shut down or 'repurpose' hundreds of ticket offices across England in a move expected to save up to £500million a year.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Funny how people mocked the RMT when they put out the list of ticket offices set for closure.

its tech-progress, banks are shutting their branches, shops are shutting, because its cheaper to be online... everything or nearly everything is done by phone, i even have phone consultations with my doctor. Driverless cars, buses, trams, and dare i say trains, some are here others work in progress,
is/will the Luddite movement re-emerge....

 

[STKKK46]

The piece in the Daily Mail has one particular part that needs to be looked at.

I don’t have the best of knowledge regarding Birmingham New Street but did Guy Adams have a vantage point that allowed him to observe a ‘bearded ticket inspector’ leave his mess room, enter Greggs (and buy a sausage roll!) and see him walk down to a train, meaning this was all done in walking time? I think not.

Borderline stalking from Mr Adams in my opinion.

Maybe he should have followed the ticket inspector on to his train (which MUST have been delayed due to all of the above being done in walking time) and asked for comment on the sausage roll. Was it nice? Was it fresh? Maybe it was flaky and leaving more work for the work shy militants to not clean up.

A truly horrific piece and anyone believing a word of it and not listening to the seemingly reasoned comments from staff on it on here should really take a look at themselves.