It wasn’t me! Penalty fine

[WesternLancer]

Hopin not 2 need legal advice as when I go to court on Thurs I’m hopin they dismiss the case when they have no evidence. However I do worry if the description matches me. What happens then?

If you are going in person then I guess it's down to convincing the magistrates that it was not you and you were not there.

Apols if you have answered this up thread but is there any evidence at all you can take with you that shows you were not there that day? bank statement with purchases in another town, diary or any appointments elsewhere that would help corroborate where you actually were etc

Certainly take some photo ID with you - and if for example you carry a driving license around with you regularly as ID, or a university ID card etc, you can say that on the basis that you would have offered it to the staff on the railway had they asked you for ID on the day in question.

So long as you are not lying about anything in the court (almost certainly a far worse / more serious thing to do than any ticket evasion activity) then I would hope you would be given a chance to say it.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thx for all the advice. I’m confident they don’t have video footage of me however if they don’t have video footage at all can I be found guilty on just a description? Eg tall, slim male with dark hair? That could describe numerous people!

The court essentially has to be satisfied that it was you. It’s up to the magistrate/s what evidence they would consider to be satisfactory. However, it is noteworthy that unlike almost every other case we have seen, the TOC is insistent on pursuing this in court. One might therefore infer that they do have evidence it was you, and it would be remiss of us to fail to advise you that lying to a court is a very serious matter for which alone, you can be imprisoned.

It’s not that I don’t believe you, but just a note that the consequences of *the court believing you have lied and committed perjury* can be severe. I do advise approaching this with caution rather than bravado.

 

[Puffing Devil]

This does all seem pretty 'off' that someone can be impersonated by another traveller who has 'stolen' their name and address, and has to then go to considerable personal expense to engage a solicitor or other legally qualified expert to protect themselves form being wrongly prosecuted and found guilty.

At what stage would the OP have access to the descriptive information the railway company / Nexus may have that that outlines what the OP looks like? Would that only happen on the day in court?

It is tough and I would hope it could be resolved at court on Thursday. Nexus will have to disclose their evidence during the pre-trial process, also any material that they will not be using.

Hopin not 2 need legal advice as when I go to court on Thurs I’m hopin they dismiss the case when they have no evidence. However I do worry if the description matches me. What happens then?

If you are going in person then I guess it's down to convincing the magistrates that it was not you and you were not there.

Then it's down to the Magistrates and who do they believe.

 

[WesternLancer]

The court essentially has to be satisfied that it was you. It’s up to the magistrate/s what evidence they would consider to be satisfactory. However, it is noteworthy that unlike almost every other case we have seen, the TOC is insistent on pursuing this in court. One might therefore infer that they do have evidence it was you, and it would be remiss of us to fail to advise you that lying to a court is a very serious matter for which alone, you can be imprisoned.

It’s not that I don’t believe you, but just a note that the consequences of *the court believing you have lied and committed perjury* can be severe. I do advise approaching this with caution rather than bravado.

We do not see many nexus cases. Though your advice is wise.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Apr 2025 ==

It is tough and I would hope it could be resolved at court on Thursday. Nexus will have to disclose their evidence during the pre-trial process, also any material that they will not be using.





Then it's down to the Magistrates and who do they believe.

Thanks for picking up on my post.

 

[island]

The court essentially has to be satisfied that it was you.

Just to note that the court has to be sure, not just satisfied, to convict.

 

[womble10]

Thx for all the advice. I’m confident they don’t have video footage of me however if they don’t have video footage at all can I be found guilty on just a description? Eg tall, slim male with dark hair? That could describe numerous people!

You say that you are "confident" the TOC doesn't have footage of you on the train. This statement worries me.

As I see it, a person who had not been stopped by an RPO would say they were "certain" there was no footage of them: They weren't on the train.

A person who had been stopped by a RPO and did not see them wearing a body camera might, however, say that they were "confident" there was no footage of them: They hadn't seen a camera.

That is a minor semantic point but it is worth making.

I do not suggest that your account to the forum may be inaccurate, but for your benefit feel that I should reinforce the advice given above that you must tell the truth in court. You must not say or write anything to the court which is false and which you know to be false or do not believe to be true. If you do, you will be committing perjury. This is a serious criminal offence, tried in the Crown court and punishable by imprisonment.

 

[AlterEgo]

Just to note that the court has to be sure, not just satisfied, to convict.

Yes of course - to the criminal standard of proof, my apologies. It is a high bar.

 

[Titfield]

Yes of course - to the criminal standard of proof, my apologies. It is a high bar.

The legal phrase is "beyond reasonable doubt"

Take a look at https://hallellis.co.uk/burden-proof-balance-probabilities/

 

[AlterEgo]

You say that you are "confident" the TOC doesn't have footage of you on the train. This statement worries me.

Indeed, this phrasing is likely to be picked up on in court if used. If I wasn’t at Birmingham New Street station yesterday and someone asked me if I’d been caught on camera there, I’d say quite clearly I wasn’t. It couldn’t have been me. I’m certain it wasn’t me, there is no evidence I was there of course. I was at home.

OP, have you secured any proof or demonstration of your whereabouts?

 

[island]

The legal phrase is "beyond reasonable doubt"

Take a look at https://hallellis.co.uk/burden-proof-balance-probabilities/

The term "beyond reasonable doubt" was replaced by "sure" some years ago as it was felt clearer and more understandable. Some older sources may still include the obsolete term.

 

[Titfield]

The term "beyond reasonable doubt" was replaced by "sure" some years ago as it was felt clearer and more understandable. Some older sources may still include the obsolete term.

Thanks. Hallellis need to update their website….

 

[Pushpit]

This is a 5 year old story from The Chronicle, but it does illustrate how Nexus, at least at that time, were in "sausage machine mode". So they just brought the cases to court, seemingly a large proportion of people turned up to plead not guilty, and in more than a few cases Nexus stopped their case. In other cases they did move on to a second hearing. I know a couple of the names on the list, whose prosecution was dropped, and I suspect they have similar stories to the OP.

Metro 'fare dodging' prosecutions: What happened to each person accused by Nexus

The Metro operator brought over 20 prosecutions at Newcastle Magistrates' Court this week

www.chroniclelive.co.uk

 

[Johnjones76560]

Just wanted 2 come back on & say thx for everyone’s help. Turned up at court, was called to speak to the solicitor, they read the description and it didn’t match me so he said he was happy to not proceed any further. Really appreciate everyone’s support to get this far.

However, I’ve just received a further steps notice in the mail. It was dated for the day of my court appearance. Is this a mistake or are they expecting me to pay it? Thx in advance

 

[Titfield]

Just wanted 2 come back on & say thx for everyone’s help. Turned up at court, was called to speak to the solicitor, they read the description and it didn’t match me so he said he was happy to not proceed any further. Really appreciate everyone’s support to get this far.

However, I’ve just received a further steps notice in the mail. It was dated for the day of my court appearance. Is this a mistake or are they expecting me to pay it? Thx in advance

Sounds like a timing issue or mistake. I would email the TOC to confirm the case was withdrawn and ask them to ensure the court has this correctly recorded. I would then recheck with the court.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

However, I’ve just received a further steps notice in the mail. It was dated for the day of my court appearance. Is this a mistake or are they expecting me to pay it?

Under the circumstances, is this an abuse of process by Nexus?

 

[Haywain]

Under the circumstances, is this an abuse of process by Nexus?

No.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Just wanted 2 come back on & say thx for everyone’s help. Turned up at court, was called to speak to the solicitor, they read the description and it didn’t match me so he said he was happy to not proceed any further. Really appreciate everyone’s support to get this far.

However, I’ve just received a further steps notice in the mail. It was dated for the day of my court appearance. Is this a mistake or are they expecting me to pay it? Thx in advance

Sounds like a timing issue or mistake. I would email the TOC to confirm the case was withdrawn and ask them to ensure the court has this correctly recorded. I would then recheck with the court.

It appears that the prosecutor did not withdraw the case as agreed, and it has proceeded, resulting in your conviction in your absence. A complete cock-up, but not a surprise in today's underfunded and overworked court system.

Unfortunately, this leaves you with a conviction that must be withdrawn appropriately. To do this, you'll need to call the court and tell them what has happened and that you need to make another Statutory Declaration, as you were unaware that the case was going to proceed as the prosecutor had agreed to withdraw.

I don't believe that an application under Section 142 of the Magistrates' Court Act is appropriate, as it is generally used by the Magistrates' Court to rectify its own errors. It doesn't provide a direct route for the prosecution to withdraw a case after a conviction. Though this is so unusual, they may be prepared to go down that route. If they do, you need an assurance that there will be no conviction on your record. The court would have to direct that the matter be heard by another set of justices, and the prosecutor would offer no evidence at that time. That would spare you attendance, but you're in the hands of the court to get it right this time.

Under the circumstances, is this an abuse of process by Nexus?

No. It's a mistake.

 

[pedr]

Did you go into court, hear your case called, and observe the prosecutor offering no evidence, resulting in your acquittal?

 

[Johnjones76560]

Did you go into court, hear your case called, and observe the prosecutor offering no evidence, resulting in your acquittal?

No. I was called into a side room with the solicitor. He took one look at me & said the description on file did not match me so he would drop the case & I was free to leave.

This whole thing is so annoying. It wasn’t me yet it has taken so much of my time & energy. So frustrating that this is allowed to happen!

 

[WesternLancer]

No. I was called into a side room with the solicitor. He took one look at me & said the description on file did not match me so he would drop the case & I was free to leave.

This whole thing is so annoying. It wasn’t me yet it has taken so much of my time & energy. So frustrating that this is allowed to happen!

Frankly I find this situation appalling. IIRC you are a student and I would think at this time of year especially you have better things to do than be messed about like this.

Notwithstanding the clear advice from @Puffing Devil about what you must surely now have to do to get this removed.
But

I would be interested in experts views on what aspects of formal complaints procedure could be used now (in addition to resolving the legal issue / conviction).

If I have it correct in this summary

1) the OP was not stopped for any ticketing issue by NEXUS
2) NEXUS accused the OP of a ticketing offence based on someone else giving NEXUS the OPs details
3) The OP wrote to NEXUS stating it was not him (involving time and cost)
4) The OP provided supporting documentation with his own ID / Photo that NEXUS could have used to check against their records of the person stopped (?)
5) Nexus persisted on takin the matter to court - taking up the OP's time and effort and no doubt costs
6) Nexus solicitor at court accepted the case did not involve the OP because they did not match the description held on file from the incident (something that could have been done at point 3 or 4),and verbally said they would drop the case
7) Nexus then actually failed to drop the case (presumably)
8) the OP has been convicted of something they did not do.
9) The OP has now got to spend more time, trouble and money to sort this out

In parallel to unwinding the conviction I would assume that the OP could now

A) invoke some sort of formal complaints process with NEXUS and seek redress. I am not sure what the going rate is but I'd be tempted to request at a reasonable estimate of the time involved a payment of £20 per hour + costs of postage, travel to court etc in compensation at least
B) if NEXUS don't offer to pay redress then I would escalate to an Ombudsman
c) I believe Nexus is a local authority related body (see link below) and therefore in addition to Passenger Focus it occurs to me to suggest the Local Government Ombudsman (LGO) may be an appropriate organisation to escalate this to. My experience of the LGO is that they are relatively effective, and a proper government funded Ombudsman - so should be better than the Rail Ombudsman which gets a poor rep on this forum for not being effective

How we engage | nexus.org.uk

How we engage with passengers and service users

www.nexus.org.uk

Nexus is accountable to the North East Combined Authority (NECA) made up of elected councillors from five local authorities.
You can also contact Passenger Focus, a national body representing public transport users, if you have any complaints you feel Nexus has not addressed appropriately.

At this stage (or perhaps as soon as you have done the stuff Puffing Devil outlines to get things corrected) I'd be tempted to make an official complaint to NEXUS, your MP with a covering note asking your MP to pursued the matter on your behalf by also contacting NEXUS to ask them to do the work necessary to correct their error, or if they are unable to do that to pay your costs in doing so - frankly they should pay you costs to engage a solicitor to do it in my view....

If NEXUS response to you (not necessarily the MP) is inadequate, I'd escalate it to Passenger Focus and Local Government Ombudsman - assuming the LGO accepts that combined local authority bodies fall under there jurisdiction. If they don't fall under the LGO jurisdiction then I would seek clarification from the LGO which public ombudsman they are accountable to. My understanding is that there is an Ombudsman for the vast majority if not all public bodies.

I hope this advice is of use - I'd of course welcome other people's corrections or thoughts on such a course of action.

I'm sure forum members would help check drafts of complaints letters to the various bodies I mention above if the OP wishes to pursue this in this way.

 

[Titfield]

I would contact Nexus first to get the instant problem resolved because that is of the most concern and potential creator of further issues for the OP.

It may be that Nexus grab the matter by the horns resolve the problem and also offer a suitable apology and compensation without the need for any further action on the OPs part.

If they do not do this then I would contact them again to express my deep dissatisfaction and seek compensation.

Given there has already been one administrative blunder (to say the least) sending emails off left right and centre may inadvertently cause more confusion and delay simply on the basis that too many cooks spoil the broth.

I would certainly be seeking more than £20 per hour in compensation.

 

[Johnjones76560]

Frankly I find this situation appalling. IIRC you are a student and I would think at this time of year especially you have better things to do than be messed about like this.

Notwithstanding the clear advice from @Puffing Devil about what you must surely now have to do to get this removed.
But

I would be interested in experts views on what aspects of formal complaints procedure could be used now (in addition to resolving the legal issue / conviction).

If I have it correct in this summary

1) the OP was not stopped for any ticketing issue by NEXUS
2) NEXUS accused the OP of a ticketing offence based on someone else giving NEXUS the OPs details
3) The OP wrote to NEXUS stating it was not him (involving time and cost)
4) The OP provided supporting documentation with his own ID / Photo that NEXUS could have used to check against their records of the person stopped (?)
5) Nexus persisted on takin the matter to court - taking up the OP's time and effort and no doubt costs
6) Nexus solicitor at court accepted the case did not involve the OP because they did not match the description held on file from the incident (something that could have been done at point 3 or 4),and verbally said they would drop the case
7) Nexus then actually failed to drop the case (presumably)
8) the OP has been convicted of something they did not do.
9) The OP has now got to spend more time, trouble and money to sort this out

In parallel to unwinding the conviction I would assume that the OP could now

A) invoke some sort of formal complaints process with NEXUS and seek redress. I am not sure what the going rate is but I'd be tempted to request at a reasonable estimate of the time involved a payment of £20 per hour + costs of postage, travel to court etc in compensation at least
B) if NEXUS don't offer to pay redress then I would escalate to an Ombudsman
c) I believe Nexus is a local authority related body (see link below) and therefore in addition to Passenger Focus it occurs to me to suggest the Local Government Ombudsman (LGO) may be an appropriate organisation to escalate this to. My experience of the LGO is that they are relatively effective, and a proper government funded Ombudsman - so should be better than the Rail Ombudsman which gets a poor rep on this forum for not being effective

How we engage | nexus.org.uk

How we engage with passengers and service users

www.nexus.org.uk

At this stage (or perhaps as soon as you have done the stuff Puffing Devil outlines to get things corrected) I'd be tempted to make an official complaint to NEXUS, your MP with a covering note asking your MP to pursued the matter on your behalf by also contacting NEXUS to ask them to do the work necessary to correct their error, or if they are unable to do that to pay your costs in doing so - frankly they should pay you costs to engage a solicitor to do it in my view....

If NEXUS response to you (not necessarily the MP) is inadequate, I'd escalate it to Passenger Focus and Local Government Ombudsman - assuming the LGO accepts that combined local authority bodies fall under there jurisdiction. If they don't fall under the LGO jurisdiction then I would seek clarification from the LGO which public ombudsman they are accountable to. My understanding is that there is an Ombudsman for the vast majority if not all public bodies.

I hope this advice is of use - I'd of course welcome other people's corrections or thoughts on such a course of action.

I'm sure forum members would help check drafts of complaints letters to the various bodies I mention above if the OP wishes to pursue this in this way.

Thx. No. 4 didn’t happen as they wouldn’t allow me to do this. Said that had to be done at court!

I just want this to be over tbh! Not really wanting to write a complaint atm. I’m worried they’ll have no record of me going to court & will say I didn’t turn up or something!

 

[WesternLancer]

I would contact Nexus first to get the instant problem resolved because that is of the most concern and potential creator of further issues for the OP.

It may be that Nexus grab the matter by the horns resolve the problem and also offer a suitable apology and compensation without the need for any further action on the OPs part.

If they do not do this then I would contact them again to express my deep dissatisfaction and seek compensation.

Given there has already been one administrative blunder (to say the least) sending emails off left right and centre may inadvertently cause more confusion and delay simply on the basis that too many cooks spoil the broth.

I would certainly be seeking more than £20 per hour in compensation.

Yes, I would certainly be doing this in some sort of 'ordered process' - but I suspect the initial contact with NEXUS seeking resolution needs to be done in writing.

But I certainly think this from @Puffing Devil will be important to do surely (because it's hard to see that you can trust NEXUS to actually deal with this properly now)

Unfortunately, this leaves you with a conviction that must be withdrawn appropriately. To do this, you'll need to call the court and tell them what has happened and that you need to make another Statutory Declaration, as you were unaware that the case was going to proceed as the prosecutor had agreed to withdraw.

Thx. No. 4 didn’t happen as they wouldn’t allow me to do this. Said that had to be done at court!

Thanks - with hindsight it might have been a good idea to send it to them anyway - clearly being told that you could not do this might well reflect some process or policy they operate, but if it does that seems ridiculous to me. But of course I accept that you did what they told you when you tried to do this (thus wasting more of your time and theirs as well)

I just want this to be over tbh! Not really wanting to write a complaint atm. I’m worried they’ll have no record of me going to court & will say I didn’t turn up or something!

I'm afraid you will have to complain, and you just need to assert your version of what happened - if it's the truth you have nothing to be concerned about. Writing your complaint won't take longer than the time you have had to write on this forum getting advice etc after all, and people here will help with checking your complaint wording to get it right.

If their solicitor claimed you weren't there (ie lied) that would be quite a serious thing for them to do so I suspect it wouldn't happen.

If there is a better way to get this over with then someone will tell you I'm sure - but I doubt it will go away without you having to do this I'm afraid.

 

[Pushpit]

I guess your other option is to go to The Chronicle with this story. This will also trigger the journalist to call Nexus' press team and that may lead to a reverse ferret.

Also, if you made a note of the name of the solicitor involved, you could complain to them / their employer / professional body.

 

[Puffing Devil]

I would contact Nexus first to get the instant problem resolved because that is of the most concern and potential creator of further issues for the OP.

It may be that Nexus grab the matter by the horns resolve the problem and also offer a suitable apology and compensation without the need for any further action on the OPs part.

If they do not do this then I would contact them again to express my deep dissatisfaction and seek compensation.

Given there has already been one administrative blunder (to say the least) sending emails off left right and centre may inadvertently cause more confusion and delay simply on the basis that too many cooks spoil the broth.

I would certainly be seeking more than £20 per hour in compensation.

I guess your other option is to go to The Chronicle with this story. This will also trigger the journalist to call Nexus' press team and that may lead to a reverse ferret.

Also, if you made a note of the name of the solicitor involved, you could complain to them / their employer / professional body.

By all means, complain, but be aware that a criminal conviction has been recorded against you. You must follow the legal process to have it removed. Contact the court as soon as possible to initiate the process.

 

[WesternLancer]

By all means, complain, but be aware that a criminal conviction has been recorded against you. You must follow the legal process to have it removed. Contact the court as soon as possible to initiate the process.

Yes, I think @Johnjones76560 must do this.

It may also be of help for the paperwork mentioned in post #73 to be uploaded for people to check (personal details removed before uploading)

However, I’ve just received a further steps notice in the mail. It was dated for the day of my court appearance. Is this a mistake or are they expecting me to pay it? Thx in advance

Then after having set that in place the OP can then consider complaining to NEXUS / ombudsman etc to seek redress for all the wasted time and effort etc this has involved.

 

[pedr]

If the letter was dated the day of the hearing is it possible it was set up to send before the hearing and crossed with details of an acquittal following a withdrawal of the charge? That may be unlikely but phoning or visiting the court to ask for precise details of what happened on the day might help clarify what the current position is.

 

[AlterEgo]

The ombudsman cannot and will not deal with issues involving prosecutions, penalty fares, or court.

 

[WesternLancer]

The ombudsman cannot and will not deal with issues involving prosecutions, penalty fares, or court.

Thanks - but they do consider 'administrative errors' so I suppose the issue would be if they would accept it is poor admin and processes by NEXUS that have given rise to this - which in my view it is.

I'm not suggesting the Ombudsman would over turn the conviction that is now presumably in place.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks - but they do consider 'administrative errors' so I suppose the issue would be if they would accept it is poor admin and processes by NEXUS that have given rise to this - which in my view it is.

I'm not suggesting the Ombudsman would over turn the conviction that is now presumably in place.

The rail ombudsman will definitely not deal with this I’m afraid. They don’t deal with anything involving that area - it’s outside their legal remit and their expertise. They also don’t deal in penalty fares even if they arise due to “bad admin” by someone filling it out wrongly etc.

The ombudsman exists as a place to take extant complaints after 40 days or deadlock; neither of these apply here.

The best recourse here is through the press and via legal means to overturn the conviction. A complaint may also be made about the prosecutor who made the error to their regulatory authority if one wishes.

I don’t know if the OP can claim damages or anything.