A rant about Class 222's

[All Line Rover]

I am currently sat in First Class on a "refurbished" Class 222 from Sheffield to London. I am not impressed.

First of all, these new "leather" seats are not at all comfortable. Virgin, CrossCountry and FGW are just as good, if not better. East Coast are miles ahead. The armrests on these "new" seats are also the same stupid design as before.

Second, the new carpet is covered in white spots, which look like bits of dirt. What idiot came up with that design!?

Third, about half of the seats don't line up properly with the windows. This is supposed to be First Class! More seats line up with the windows on a Voyager! And these 222's don't tilt, so they are supposed have more windows!!! You'd at least have thought that they would try to line up more seats with the windows on these "refurbished" trains.

Fourth, there are almost no airline style seats. This wouldn't be a problem if there were loads of seats available, but this train has only 1.5 First Class carriages. So now I have to share a table (of 2!) on a SUPER OFF PEAK service with someone else - wonderful! :roll:

Also, the overhead luggage racks are the smallest I have ever seen. I am unable to fix my small suitcase into them, even though I have been able to do so on every single train I have ever travelled on prior to today!

Finally, there is no "proper" complimentary food. The dishes priced at £4.99 are meagre and poor quality. They are NOT worth £4.99 - especially in comparison to the former East Coast "At Seat Dining."

So, in summary, I am not at all impressed by First Class on East Midlands Trains - neither am I impressed by the 222's. (Thank goodness I only paid £2 to travel on this train!)

What fascination does everyone have with these trains? They are just as rubbish as the Voyagers! Give me Pendolinos and Mark 3/4 carriages any day...

 

[tbtc]

I am not impressed.

I have to share a table (of 2!) on a SUPER OFF PEAK service with someone else - wonderful! :roll:

I only paid £2 to travel on this train!

I've only quoted a couple of points from your "rant", but I think that you can guess my feelings...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Oh dear, the first class is poor and busy so therefore it's a bad train?!

:roll:

 

[ainsworth74]

The reports I've heard about EMT's first class catering is that it's good value for a fiver. Perhaps the issue is more that you actually had to pay rather than what you actually received?

I would also echo Matt and tbtc's thoughts as well.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The reports I've heard about EMT's first class catering is that it's good value for a fiver. Perhaps the issue is more that you actually had to pay rather than what you actually received?

I would also echo Matt and tbtc's thoughts as well.

I do have to say that for sub-£5 the Ploughman's Lunch looks good

 

[All Line Rover]

Oh dear, the first class is poor and busy so therefore it's a bad train?!

:roll:

I am 100% sure that I am the only one to have paid £2. The "busy" factor is only part of the reason why I am annoyed. (I have been on busy Virgin trains before.) These trains are no better than the Voyagers! (And that's saying something... )


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The reports I've heard about EMT's first class catering is that it's good value for a fiver. Perhaps the issue is more that you actually had to pay rather than what you actually received?

I would also echo Matt and tbtc's thoughts as well.

The food LOOKS good, but it TASTES horrible. If you don't believe me, try it for yourself! They are running a £10 promotion after all...

 

[YorkshireBear]

I am not impressed.


Third, about half of the seats don't line up properly with the windows. This is supposed to be First Class! More seats line up with the windows on a Voyager! And these 222's don't tilt, so they are supposed have more windows!!! You'd at least have thought that they would try to line up more seats with the windows on these "refurbished" trains.

Fourth, there are almost no airline style seats. This wouldn't be a problem if there were loads of seats available, but this train has only 1.5 First Class carriages. So now I have to share a table (of 2!) on a SUPER OFF PEAK service with someone else - wonderful! :roll:

Also, the overhead luggage racks are the smallest I have ever seen. I am unable to fix my small suitcase into them, even though I have been able to do so on every single train I have ever travelled on prior to today!

...

Just going to pick a few points here...

1.5 first class carriges is fine for a 5 car unit! your lucky it isn't one!!!!!

so have you never taken a suitcase on a voyager before... same design of overhead luggae racks. Bigger than most sprinters too and also the 185s....

Seats are lined up to maximise capcity. First class does not mean window seat it means first class.

Echo the comments of others ...

 

[All Line Rover]

I've only quoted a couple of points from your "rant", but I think that you can guess my feelings...

Yes, I can guess - "He really shouldn't have bothered, should he?" I will not be travelling with EMT again, even though I could do so for £2 if I wanted to. I'm wasting my time!

I AM travelling on a promotional ticket, but that doesn't mean I can't compare EMT to other operators and make criticisms.

 

[ainsworth74]

The food LOOKS good, but it TASTES horrible. If you don't believe me, try it for yourself! They are running a £10 promotion after all...

I have tried it and found it to be tasty personally. EC was better but EMT certainly wasn't 'horrible'.

 

[317666]

Well if there is a seat opposite you, then really you have to expect to be sat opposite somebody because a seat is a seat. However, I agree that a few more airline seats would be a good idea, so it's more likely that passengers can get the seating position they would like.

 

[All Line Rover]

Just going to pick a few points here...

1.5 first class carriges is fine for a 5 car unit! your lucky it isn't one!!!!!

so have you never taken a suitcase on a voyager before... same design of overhead luggae racks. Bigger than most sprinters too and also the 185s....

Seats are lined up to maximise capcity. First class does not mean window seat it means first class.

Echo the comments of others ...

I would be interested if you could supply some statistics regarding the overhead luggage racks, please. I travel on a Voyager every week with my suitcase, and it fits comfortably. The racks are DEFINITELY smaller on the 222's.

Furthermore, First Class on every TOC bar EMT means that (most) seats align with the windows.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I am 100% sure that I am the only one to have paid £2. The "busy" factor is only part of the reason why I am annoyed. (I have been on busy Virgin trains before.) These trains are no better than the Voyagers! (And that's saying something... )


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The food LOOKS good, but it TASTES horrible. If you don't believe me, try it for yourself! They are running a £10 promotion after all...

Meridians are FAR superior to voyagers... far far superior.

So you have paid £2 for your ticket and your suprised that others have also taken up cheap first class tickets?..... First class does not mean carriage to yourself. There are tables for two so dont be surprised if A SECOND PERSON sits opposite you...

i'm genuinley shocked...
I have done and i think it tastes fine.

 

[WillPS]

It's more like 1.75 First Class carriages actually...

I adore Meridian First Class.

 

[YorkshireBear]

[/i]

I do not have statistics for that because frankly i have better things to care about. But i travel with the same bag to most places from sheffield and leeds and it fits in everything expect the 185 and the voyager.... meridian i never have an issue with.

 

[All Line Rover]

I have tried it and found it to be tasty personally. EC was better but EMT certainly wasn't 'horrible'.

Did you try the nachos? *shudder*


It's fine dining all the way for me!

 

[tbtc]

Yes, I can guess - "He really shouldn't have bothered, should he?" I will not be travelling with EMT again, even though I could do so for £2 if I wanted to. I'm wasting my time!

I AM travelling on a promotional ticket, but that doesn't mean I can't compare EMT to other operators and make criticisms

You are perfectly entitled to complain.

But when your complaint is along the lines of "222s are rubbish because I had to sit next to someone after paying £2 for a First Class ticket" its kind of hard to feel sympathetic.

You could have made some interesting points (why does Sheffield get five coach trains for London services, whilst Manchester/ Leeds/ York etc get nine coach services? why use 30% of a short train on First Class, which is double the amount of First Class on an XC HST?), but your gripe was of the inhumanity of having to sit next to someone? Really?

 

[trentside]

Meridians are FAR superior to voyagers... far far superior.

Couldn't agree more - Meridians are so much better than Voyagers.

While you have a right to criticise your experience, if you've paid £2 it's a bit rich to complain about someone sitting opposite you.

In all honesty, I thought calling the person who designed the carpet an 'idiot' was too strong - it's the same carpet EMT have used in their other refurbishments, and I think it looks good.

When you consider the maximum journey times on the MML, I think that complimentary food would be a step too far. I think £5 for a meal represents good value, consider that the same dish in a restaurant or pub would be anywhere between £5 and £15 (or more!).

 

[YorkshireBear]

You are perfectly entitled to complain.

But when your complaint is along the lines of "222s are rubbish because I had to sit next to someone after paying £2 for a First Class ticket" its kind of hard to feel sympathetic.

You could have made some interesting points (why does Sheffield get five coach trains for London services, whilst Manchester/ Leeds/ York etc get nine coach services? why use 30% of a short train on First Class, which is double the amount of First Class on an XC HST?), but your gripe was of the inhumanity of having to sit next to someone? Really?

Well that summed it perfectly... (like)

I don't understand why sheffield has less carriges. Although i think the people of sheffield are pretty poor at actually using the trains. It seems to me sometimes that sheffield has a very poor service for a city of its size simply because people dont use it...

 

[All Line Rover]

Well if there is a seat opposite you, then really you have to expect to be sat opposite somebody because a seat is a seat. However, I agree that a few more airline seats would be a good idea, so it's more likely that passengers can get the seating position they would like.

Here I have found a reasonable person. I do not like to "fight" with the person opposite about legroom. There are plenty of airline style seats on Pendolinos and Voyagers, so I am happy. But on these rubbish trains, airline style seats are only available in Standard but not First! Ridiculous!

 

[tbtc]

Here I have found a reasonable person. I do not like to "fight" with the person opposite about legroom. There are plenty of airline style seats on Pendolinos and Voyagers, so I am happy. But on these rubbish trains, airline style seats are only available in Standard but not First! Ridiculous!

I'm sure that if there were Airline seats in First Class on EMT you'd then complain that you expected a Table instead...

 

[All Line Rover]

You are perfectly entitled to complain.

But when your complaint is along the lines of "222s are rubbish because I had to sit next to someone after paying £2 for a First Class ticket" its kind of hard to feel sympathetic.

You could have made some interesting points (why does Sheffield get five coach trains for London services, whilst Manchester/ Leeds/ York etc get nine coach services? why use 30% of a short train on First Class, which is double the amount of First Class on an XC HST?), but your gripe was of the inhumanity of having to sit next to someone? Really?

I am not solely complaining about having to sit opposite someone else, for goodness sake! I have made a number of criticisms. I prefer Voyagers (there - I've said it!) even though they have LESS First Class seats.

 

[tbtc]

Well that summed it perfectly... (like)

I don't understand why sheffield has less carriges. Although i think the people of sheffield are pretty poor at actually using the trains. It seems to me sometimes that sheffield has a very poor service for a city of its size simply because people dont use it...

This is a serious point, and one which doesn't seem to be getting addressed any time soon (given how few seven coach 222s there are, and how few HSTs you see in Sheffield).

Whilst we have two/hour to London (unlike Liverpool which only gets one), I still think that the capacity from Sheffield to the capital isn't that great (compared to most other cities a similar distance away).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I am not solely complaining about having to sit opposite someone else, for goodness sake! I have made a number of criticisms. I prefer Voyagers (there - I've said it!) even though they have LESS First Class seats.

I just don't why you'd even mention it. Fair enough, if you paid for First Class and had to stand, but...

 

[All Line Rover]

I'm sure that if there were Airline seats in First Class on EMT you'd then complain that you expected a Table instead...

First Class airline style seats on Virgin have a very large table, which is more than sufficient for working on.


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I am just shocked and suprised that I actually prefer travelling in the Standard Class Quiet Coach on Virgin than in First Class on a different InterCity operator!

I will soon be travelling on SE High Speed, which I also prefer.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . I have to share a table (of 2!) on a SUPER OFF PEAK service with someone else - wonderful! . . .

A passenger finds a train with seats available and chooses to sit down, and then comes on here to post a complaint that another passenger has found a seat available and has also chosen to sit down.

Can there be any meaningful or helpful response to that?

 

[All Line Rover]

Oh, and another point. I have just popped to the toilet, and the vestibule stinks (just like on a Voyager). What a rubbish train builder Bombardier are! Alstom, BR and perhaps Semiens are/were much better.

Could all you 222 lovers please explain to me why 222's are better than Voyagers for First Class passengers? I have not been given a single reason. To say that they are less claustrophobic would be poppycock - I feel extremely claustrophobic as I don't have a window.

PS: Thanks for making this journey pass so quickly, everyone. Much appreciated.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A passenger finds a train with seats available and chooses to sit down, and then comes on here to post a complaint that another passenger has found a seat available and has also chosen to sit down.

Can there be any meaningful or helpful response to that?

Yes, an obvious one. Could EMT please install airline style seats in First Class.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Could all you 222 lovers please explain to me why 222's are better than Voyagers for First Class passengers? I have not been given a single reason. To say that they are less claustrophobic would be poppycock - I feel extremely claustrophobic as I don't have a window.

I fail to see how 'poor' first class means that a whole class of train is rubbish.

 

[tbtc]

I fail to see how 'poor' first class means that a whole class of train is rubbish.

Neither do I.

If I dismissed every type of train where I'd had to sit near another passenger as "rubbish" then I'd never be happy.

 

[ChrisCooper]

I'm sure plenty of people have made journies of similar times having to sit with 5 other passengers (on 3+2 seating) and paid far more than £2 for the privalage.

 

[All Line Rover]

Where have I said that I dislike 222's because of having to sit next to someone else? The fact that First Class is packed (during the Off-Peak when there is no disruption), that there are no airline style seats, that loads of seats do not align with the windows, that the seats are not very comfortable, that there are very limited refreshments, and that the heating is constantly on (I have just noticed this) even though it is a warm day - causing me to sweat - contributes to a very poor overall experience, which is worse than Standard Class on many other TOC's.
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I'm sure plenty of people have made journies of similar times having to sit with 5 other passengers (on 3+2 seating) and paid far more than £2 for the privalage.

I have paid £2 because I am on a promotional ticket, which is only available for a limited time. I can still base my judgements on what I would normally pay. What problem does everyone have with the £2 ticket? After all, the experience is the same for all passengers, no matter what they have paid.

 

[Minilad]

Have you voiced your concerns to EMT staff or have you just come on here with your woe is me I have had to share a table story.