Compensation claim for delay by London Midland on South West Trains season ticket

[infobleep]

Hi there

If I ave a London season ticket from Shalford including zones 1-6 for 1 month and I am delayed by 41 minutes due to London Midland at Euston, can I claim compensation? I always thought such things fell to the company who transports one to London, in my case South West Trains, who usually cover the single largest part of my journey.

This morning London Midland cancelled 2 trains to Harrow and Wealdstone and only told people they were cancelling the second one 22 minutes after it should have left. It was only going to Tring now. So almost everyone got off because hardly anyone wanted to go non-stop to Tring. They all wanted stations in-between

I think most people boarded the 9.05 because although they had told 8.24 passengers to get the 8.34, they were not advising passengers what to do now. Not even that the 9.05 itself was going to be late leaving. Or even the cause of these delays, expect the term Operational reasons. What ever that meant.

I went and asked a member of platform staff who only referred to London Overground after I mentioned them. It seems as if Lobdon Overground are a taboo subject at Euston mainline. This has occurred before when I've enquired during late running trains. No one mentions them until I do!

As I couldn't be certain that the late running 9.05 wouldn't be cancelled to Harrow and Wealdstone, since in the word of the member of platform staff, "There are Overground trains to Harrow and Wealdstone", I got the 8.57.

Colleagues at work, just waited on 9.05 as they didn't know what to do, due to lack of announcements. They arrived eventually but after the 8.57 did
It would appear from my experience that London Modland or whoever runs Euaton station can't cope with communications during times of disruptions.

Kind regards

 

[pemma]

Is it a weekly season ticket or is your season ticket for a longer duration?

On most season tickets compensation is calculated by % of times on train in the local service group and not on individual journeys.

 

[infobleep]

Monthly. I am rarely that delayed by South West Trains. If it goes wron g, it tends to be London Midlands fault or some journey other than South West Trains.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hi jcolins

I have re-read what you put. So I wouldn't get compensation because it's just 1-2 hours of trains being diarupted due to delays which means the whole day might still be above average.

Besides as it's not in my local group, if it were delayed every day for 1 year, over exaggeration I know, I wouldn't get compensation because it's not in my local group.

I'm tollorrant of delays but less so of poor communication during delays. Far less so. Is that so unreasonable?

 

[Wolfie]

Monthly. I am rarely that delayed by South West Trains. If it goes wron g, it tends to be London Midlands fault or some journey other than South West Trains.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hi jcolins

I have re-read what you put. So I wouldn't get compensation because it's just 1-2 hours of trains being diarupted due to delays which means the whole day might still be above average.

Besides as it's not in my local group, if it were delayed every day for 1 year, over exaggeration I know, I wouldn't get compensation because it's not in my local group.

I'm tollorrant of delays but less so of poor communication during delays. Far less so. Is that so unreasonable?

London Midland operate a delay/repay scheme for delays of over 30 mins. See: http://www.londonmidland.com/your-journey/delay-repay/

They explicitly state that they validate claims against their own running records.

 

[LexyBoy]

LM operate a Delay Repay scheme which I would expect to apply here, since the delay was for a LM journey. You can apply online. (I could be wrong here as my TOC - FGW - doesn't do Delay Repay so I'm a little vague on it).

I'm tollorrant of delays but less so of poor communication during delays. Far less so. Is that so unreasonable?

No, that's completely reasonable. You could try writing a letter to LM with some constructive criticism (I think you're probably in the majority with your view - most people don't mind a delay as long as they are treated honestly and kept informed). You may just get a "standard fob off" response though.

(Also this thread might be better off in the Fares forum)

 

[infobleep]

Thanks for all your replies. I did wonder if the forum should have been fares but thought I'm not really asking about a fare but compensation for delay.

A work colleague overheard a woman on the phone saying she had spent ofer an hour trying to get from Euston. Whether she was rounding up I don't know Interestingly though, when I reached Harrow and Wealdstone the tube / DLR / Overground running information screen didn't list London Midland in its section of other transport provider delays. It did mention a signal failure around East Croydon and FFC Great Northern delay but that was it. Obviously this disruption wasn't considered important enough to list!

However. I'm not wasting my time complaining to TFL, it would get me nowhere.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Again this morning the 8.34 from Euston was cancelled for all stations expect Tring. Cue hardly anyone on it as everyone wants to get off before then.

A colleague said they did that because it meant they didn't have to pay compensation for being late at stations where people get off.

However I can't see that being the case because they ran the 8.24 over 10 minutes late. To my surprise they didn't cancel the Harrow and Wealdstone stop today, they did cancel some others though. The 8.24 was late due to earlier failed train which would have made up the service and having to pinch another train to run this one.

Apparently it was announced that the 8.24 was being prepared and nothing else. When I arrived they were advising people to get the London Overground train. Perhaps that taboo of not mentioning it yesterday had been lifted. However it wasn't helpful because he 8.24 was actually running and people could board it. Even chaining at Harrow would be quicker if you needed a missed station.

I asked the guard on the train. I think he was experiencing the chaos, given the way he was talking to some others about it.

Yet further evidence that the communications at Euston are not good enough.

I won't even mention the broken down train at Wolepoleadon today. Think it may have been the 7.07 from Guildford. Passed it at Woking, whilst running 16 minutes late on the 7.17 Was sat on Platform 5.

 

[OwlMan]

Again this morning the 8.34 from Euston was cancelled for all stations expect Tring. Cue hardly anyone on it as everyone wants to get off before then.

A colleague said they did that because it meant they didn't have to pay compensation for being late at stations where people get off.

However I can't see that being the case because they ran the 8.24 over 10 minutes late. To my surprise they didn't cancel the Harrow and Wealdstone stop today, they did cancel some others though. The 8.24 was late due to earlier failed train which would have made up the service and having to pinch another train to run this one.

Apparently it was announced that the 8.24 was being prepared and nothing else. When I arrived they were advising people to get the London Overground train. Perhaps that taboo of not mentioning it yesterday had been lifted. However it wasn't helpful because he 8.24 was actually running and people could board it. Even chaining at Harrow would be quicker if you needed a missed station.

.

There was a problem with a faulty train blocking the slow lines. The 0824 ran on the fast lines and was unable to stop at intermediate stations due to pathing requirements

Peter

 

[yorkie]

Again this morning the 8.34 from Euston was cancelled for all stations expect Tring. Cue hardly anyone on it as everyone wants to get off before then.

If we're playing the numbers game, then I would argue that hardly anyone would want to get this train compared to the many people would have wanted to get the 0926 from Tring to Euston, and non-stop running allowed this to be on time. Overall, I believe they made a decision which benefited most customers.

Not only that, but the 0824 calls at all the important stations anyway, and this was 11 minutes late, so anyone arriving for the 0834 would have caught the 0824 which departed at 0835.

A colleague said they did that because it meant they didn't have to pay compensation for being late at stations where people get off.

Compensation under Delay Repay is paid according to how delayed a passenger is. If a passenger arrives for an 0834 train and gets an 0824 departing at 0835, they are not delayed.

However I can't see that being the case because they ran the 8.24 over 10 minutes late.

Exactly. And cancelling a train wouldn't avoid paying out, as cancelling a train means passengers have to get the next one.

To my surprise they didn't cancel the Harrow and Wealdstone stop today, they did cancel some others though. The 8.24 was late due to earlier failed train which would have made up the service and having to pinch another train to run this one.

Apparently it was announced that the 8.24 was being prepared and nothing else. When I arrived they were advising people to get the London Overground train. Perhaps that taboo of not mentioning it yesterday had been lifted. However it wasn't helpful because he 8.24 was actually running and people could board it. Even chaining at Harrow would be quicker if you needed a missed station.

Yes, it would have to be really bad to consider taking the Overground, as that takes nearly 3 times as long.

 

[infobleep]

That all makes sense but want doesn't make sense is cancelling at least 2 trains that otherwise would have stopped at Harrow and Wealdatone when the following trains also running late and people can't be certain that too won't be cancelled for certain stations.

That was yesterday. I didn't object to getting the 8.24 today as I was in about the same time. I do object to the unhelpful announcements being given though over the loud speakers to passengers on the platform though, which was my only complaint today.

 

[RJ]

Hi there

If I ave a London season ticket from Shalford including zones 1-6 for 1 month and I am delayed by 41 minutes due to London Midland at Euston, can I claim compensation? I always thought such things fell to the company who transports one to London, in my case South West Trains, who usually cover the single largest part of my journey.

This morning London Midland cancelled 2 trains to Harrow and Wealdstone and only told people they were cancelling the second one 22 minutes after it should have left. It was only going to Tring now. So almost everyone got off because hardly anyone wanted to go non-stop to Tring. They all wanted stations in-between

I think most people boarded the 9.05 because although they had told 8.24 passengers to get the 8.34, they were not advising passengers what to do now. Not even that the 9.05 itself was going to be late leaving. Or even the cause of these delays, expect the term Operational reasons. What ever that meant.

I went and asked a member of platform staff who only referred to London Overground after I mentioned them. It seems as if Lobdon Overground are a taboo subject at Euston mainline. This has occurred before when I've enquired during late running trains. No one mentions them until I do!

As I couldn't be certain that the late running 9.05 wouldn't be cancelled to Harrow and Wealdstone, since in the word of the member of platform staff, "There are Overground trains to Harrow and Wealdstone", I got the 8.57.

Colleagues at work, just waited on 9.05 as they didn't know what to do, due to lack of announcements. They arrived eventually but after the 8.57 did
It would appear from my experience that London Modland or whoever runs Euaton station can't cope with communications during times of disruptions.

Kind regards

So presumably you knew the 08:34 was cancelled, before 08:34? In that case, why did you not get the 08:37 London Overground service? You only get compensation if you were actually delayed by 30 minutes, not so sure if you choose to let other trains go.

 

[infobleep]

No, I didn't know it was cancelled until 8.52. Had I known before 8.37, I'd have done just that, thus not been delayed by 42 minutes., just 20, which I consider quite long delay in itself, given that my commute is already about 1 hour 20 minutes.

 

[Harlesden]

Personally. I think introducing compensation schemes was a big mistake in terms of the extra expense incurred by the TOC which will inevitably result in raised fares for all.
If you have an appointment with your doctor or solicitor and he/she phones shortly before the appointment time to cancel it, do you get compensation? No.
If you're sitting 20 minutes on a train stationary at a red signal - due to a problem ahead - do you get compensation? No.
If a store has to suddenly close halfway through the day because of a fire, and you arrive and find it closed and you're unable to shop there that day, do you get compensation? No.
Why should people expect any TOC to run a 100% perfect service? It is just not humanly possible. I think the whle concept of getting money out of the TOC simply because your day was disrupted due to an operating problem stinks.
Using a very extreme example, if the Harrow & Wealdstone accident of 1952 happened today, would it even be appropriate for the thousands of people back at Euston or Watford Junction affected by the line blockage to claim compensation for their severely delayed journey? Of course not.
If I was delayed a half hour or an hour on my journey today from Bowes Park to Harlesden, that's life. You have to live with occasional delay rather than huffing and puffing about getting compensation.

 

[AlterEgo]

That might be true, Harlesden, but the promise of compensation is quite a sweetener to entice people to travel by train.

It is a very expensive scheme to run - no doubt about that - but the fact the scheme is there (putting rail above other forms of transport!) does bring extra revenue in, I'm sure.

 

[trevmonk]

I think the delay compensation scheme is quite fair. You are just getting some of your money returned for a service that hasn't been provided as expected. The examples Harlesden gave of a speculative shopping trip or a visit to the doctor isn't really the same as you haven't paid upfront for a service.

If I went on a shopping trip and bought a pair of shoes that wore out after a few weeks I would expect some money to be refunded.

If I fail to attend a dentists appointment I am charged a penalty. If I had missed it because of train delays Iwould expect some of my train fare back.

I think the train companies get away lightly as many people either don't know about the compenasation schemes or don't bother to claim.

 

[infobleep]

If I had a cancelled Dr's appointment, I would expect to know this before my appointment time and not 22 minutes afterwards!

Delays and cancellations are unavoidable at times but surely giving out the correct communications isn't?

Here's another example. Yesterday on the National Rail Enquiries Web Site there were 3 train companies with delays. 2 were reported as minor and 1 major. The major had delays of 15 minutes. Where as one of the minors was something like 20-30 minutes! In addition to that, one service indicator said the disruption would last until 12pm. Click through to the service updates page and it says it will last until 9.30am! Which is it?

Today I noticed one compan'sy service indicator stating minor delays but you couldn't click through to the service disruptions page. Why not. Why are yesterday's minor delays more important and worth mentioning in more detail but this one isn't. Then there is the London Midland train which lost 30 minutes between stations. If that is not important to explain why, why do 15 minute delays warrant mentioning.

I'm not saying it's easy to put all this information ip bike if they are going to, I would prefer it I'd they could get it right. The impression I get at stations such as Euston is that they can't and I reckon the cause is a problem of communication between companies and/or staff. I'm happy to claim compensation because of that, more so than the cause of the disruption.