wrexham to saltney re-double

[The Informer]

I'm hearing an announcment is imminent, anyone else hear anything. Do we know if its going to be a full re-double or just a loop? I will be doing some digging myself but if anyone hears first then please post.

 

[The Planner]

No, it will be loops either end, no chance of a full re-doubling. There is a thread about it somewhere.

 

[merlodlliw]

I have put up the info on several threads, an announcement will be made on November 3rd by the Minister at 11.40 A.M.

Planner is correct about the loops, I have PMd you , but I am unable to post it on the forums due to protocol.

Bob

 

[Tracky]

Half a job then it would seem...

 

[The Planner]

Not really, it doesn't require more to provide an enhanced service and it is constrained by road bridges anyway.

 

[TDK]

Not really, it doesn't require more to provide an enhanced service and it is constrained by road bridges anyway.

Money planner - if money was unlimited they would build new road bridges however I think the whole project is a complete waste of taxpayers money, when complete will the services actually be enhanced? Probably not unless the ATW francise is renewed!

 

[merlodlliw]

Money planner - if money was unlimited they would build new road bridges however I think the whole project is a complete waste of taxpayers money, when complete will the services actually be enhanced? Probably not unless the ATW francise is renewed!

With all due respect TDK, if the money is not spent now, it will under new rules be removed from ring fencing & then miked elsewhere probably on roads, the sole reason for the single tracking in the first place,which 20 odd years ago saved a mere £400K on the bridge. Completion will be ready for the new franchise, which will include extra services in my opinion, if the track capacity is not improved you can not have extra services anyway.
You could the same about Welshpool on the Cambrian with £millions spent on the new dynamic loop that is simply rusting, but the capacity is there for extra services.
Money in my opinion better spent in North East Wales, than the heads of the valleys never ending £ drain hole roadway.
Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Half a job then it would seem...

The entire stretch can not be doubled,due to single path bridges at Gresford bank & the under bridge on the Chester side, entire redouble was never on the table or even an option.

Bob

 

[The Informer]

Just to touch on the myth of the Welshpool loop not being used. The occasional DN train does use it. I was down there last week, although not yet used to its full potential but it does get used!

 

[merlodlliw]

Just to touch on the myth of the Welshpool loop not being used. The occasional DN train does use it. I was down there last week, although not yet used to its full potential but it does get used!

pleased to hear it,has I never got the impression it was used except for NR traffic now & then

Bob

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

With all due respect TDK, if the money is not spent now, it will under new rules be removed from ring fencing

In past threads, the ring-fencing was always stated to be protected, but as you say, the new rules have made a serious doubt about matters concerning time-constraints.

 

[merlodlliw]

In past threads, the ring-fencing was always stated to be protected, but as you say, the new rules have made a serious doubt about matters concerning time-constraints.

Krus Aragon was first to give the tip off, that Capitol spend, even ring fenced could be shifted under new rules, this will be the 3rd year that the money has been guaranteed protected,last year Minister Ieuan Wynn Jones guaranteed the ring fence to a specific date,but in these economic crisis days, the guarantee of more years ring fence protection, was just not going to happen, in fact no self respecting Minister could allow himself to sign off £28millions for a project with no start date, when the coffers are running dry.

Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

Money planner - if money was unlimited they would build new road bridges however I think the whole project is a complete waste of taxpayers money, when complete will the services actually be enhanced? Probably not unless the ATW francise is renewed!

I think a loop at the Saltney end would at least mean that trains don't have to be held on the main Chester - Holyhead line waiting for a late northbound from Wrexham.

 

[merlodlliw]

I think a loop at the Saltney end would at least mean that trains don't have to be held on the main Chester - Holyhead line waiting for a late northbound from Wrexham.

indeed I am in complete agreement,any money spent in improving infrastructure on the railway has to be well spent, those politicians in the Welsh Office and certainly Cllrs within the Old Clwyd County Council would never have got away with the single tracking today.
The biggest farce was making the Gresford over bridge single track, saved a mere £400K, yet on completion of the single tracking, due to outcry from the then Wrexham Maelor Dist Council(who had no vote on the single track bridge)
Clwyd CC spent the very same amount,£400K on extending to Chester one London service from Shrewsbury via Wrexham as an appeasement,which I recall well, few of any used it, & after a year or so it was stopped.

Ah well, if the ring fenced money plus top up is not used in 2012, it will be gone, The current Minister knows that, sorry about the "why it occurred" but shows how Clwyd CC Officers could manipulate the planning Committee to keep in the Welsh Office good books. (Wrexham with the largest town within Clwyd CC only had three County Cllrs to represent it)

Bob

 

[Tracky]

Trains will still be waiting or slowed if any single line is left. Sods law states that trains will always meet on the single line however short. Also the speed won't then be upped from 60mph and even then thats only if you get a clear run.

Lets be honest the UK has no money. So if you are going to imagine there is to double track half the line you may as well dream up a bit more to do the whole job!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Trains will still be waiting or slowed if any single line is left. Sods law states that trains will always meet on the single line however short. Also the speed won't then be upped from 60mph and even then thats only if you get a clear run.

Lets be honest the UK has no money. So if you are going to imagine there is to double track half the line you may as well dream up a bit more to do the whole job!

WG budget for 12/13/14 does have capital rail expenditure of around £27 million per annum and a £20 million spike for FYR 12/13 in it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

pleased to hear it,has I never got the impression it was used except for NR traffic now & then

Bob

It only gets used if things are well and truly down the pan as its so far from
the scheduled crossing point at Talerdigg i.e. it only comes into play if somethings at least 40 late. There was on occasion last week when Dyfi loop could have been used but NR opted to hold train at Mach instead. Contractor sliced through the ertms cable at Tywyn and shut entire Cambrian down for an hour.

Cable theft in West Midlands this week has also seen Cambrian tt up the spout.

 

[cle]

Surely this would require some signalling work - if so, could they look at boosting the line speed on the single section as a priority, so that trains whizz through it quicker?

 

[merlodlliw]

Trains will still be waiting or slowed if any single line is left. Sods law states that trains will always meet on the single line however short. Also the speed won't then be upped from 60mph and even then thats only if you get a clear run.

Lets be honest the UK has no money. So if you are going to imagine there is to double track half the line you may as well dream up a bit more to do the whole job!

unfortunate its not going to happen, there is no way the dual carriageway would be closed & traffic diverted at the underbridge in West Cheshire, for it to be rebuilt,and no one would pay for it, the single overbridge at Gresford would also need the road closed,with no suitable diversions, lifting a dual track bridge is easier, but would require enormous earth works, plus WG dont have the money, or would even consider it, so the pair of dynamic loops are the only option on the table, the biggest problem would be for a train to fail on the single track, which would-be under or on the bridges. New signalling is part of the costings.

 

[The Planner]

Trains will still be waiting or slowed if any single line is left. Sods law states that trains will always meet on the single line however short. Also the speed won't then be upped from 60mph and even then thats only if you get a clear run.

Why will that happen ?? the only possibility of that is in pertubation, the timetable will be built to accomodate crossings with no or the very minimum of pathing time added at the single line junctions.