London - Manchester Offpeak Any Permitted

[Pauldubs]

Looking at the Routing Guide it seems I can travel London - Manchester using an Off Peak 'any permitted' ticket @£46.20 from:
Euston (via any of the 'direct' routes & via Wolverhampton)
Paddington (via Reading and XC)
St Pancras (via Sheffield)

Queries
As route from St Pancras goes through Chesterfield why is there a (sometimes) more expensive 'via Chesterfield' fare shown as it appear the A/P ticket is valid?
Could I also travel from Marylebone to Birmingham (Moor Street) and walk to New Street for onward connection? Routing guide would suggest I can as GM +CM +GC is a valid route. (I've a mind to try the Chiltern 'silver' trains)

If it helps I have a senior railcard and time is not important.

Many thanks Pauldubs

 

[Phil6219]

I can't really answer your specific queries however I used to do Manchester - London (and return) around twice a month until recently.

I never had a problem going from St Pancras to Sheffield and then over the Hope Valley line to Manchester, it takes longer but as I always had a IC125 on the MML I much preferred it. The 185 over the Pennines though is the punishment to bring back the "comfort equilibrium"

Regarding walking from Moor Street to New Street, I can not see a problem with this as you are simply continuing your journey. In the past I have had to walk from Warrington Central to WBQ to get a train back to Manchester and have not had a problem.

Phil

 

[OwlMan]

Where a more expensive route specific fare exists, an Any Permitted is not valid via that route.

That is incorrect - that only applies to routes not listed in the routeing guide. London - Manchester via Sheffield is a mapped route and therefore is valid on a any permitted ticket.
There is no requirement to check fares when looking at mapped routes in the National Routeing Guide (except is it is neccessary to "fares check" routeing points

From National Routeing Guide Section A
You may only use all the permitted routes if the fare is unrouted or the route
is described as "any permitted". An "any permitted" ticket cannot be used for
travel on a route not listed in the Routeing Guide for which a higher priced
route specific fare exists. It can be used on any route not listed in the
Routeing Guide for which a lower priced route specific fare exists.

 

[island]

Don't have anything to add regarding routeing but remember your ticket can be used on Virgin Trains without regard to the off-peak time restrictions as long as you use only Virgin services.

 

[Ticket Man]

Yes there is a naughty ticket routed "via chesterfield" which is more expensive that the any perm and yes Marylebone to Moor St and then New St on is a valid route.

As Island mentioned though, If you travel with Virgin, provided you are carrying a valid railcard your Off peak return to Manchester will be valid on any Virgin service regardless of peak time restrictions.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Queries
As route from St Pancras goes through Chesterfield why is there a (sometimes) more expensive 'via Chesterfield' fare shown as it appear the A/P ticket is valid?....

There are two levels of 'walk up' fare for 'Rte Any Permitted', Anytime and Off Peak. There are three levels of 'walk up' fare for 'Rte Chesterfield', Anytime, Off Peak and Super Off Peak.

Rte Chesterfield

SSR: £69 (CJ) Valid to depart St Pancras between 1026-1515 and after 1859 and return arriving after 1129 Mon-Fri
SVR: £98.50 (9J) Valid to depart St Pancras between 0901-1629 and after 1859 and return arriving after 1005 Mon-Fri
SOR: £196 Valid at any time

Rte Any Permitted

SVR: £70 (9I) Valid to depart St Pancras between 1026-1515 and after 1859 and return arriving after 1129 Mon-Fri
SOR: £279 Valid at any time

So as far as I can see, it is never cheaper to get a 'Rte Any Pertmitted' fare for travel from London St Pancras to Manchester and back via Chesterfield.

However, the 'Rte Any Permitted fare is still valid via Chesterfield as it is shown in the Routeing Guide.

 

[LexyBoy]

Yes there is a naughty ticket routed "via chesterfield" which is more expensive that the any perm and yes Marylebone to Moor St and then New St on is a valid route.

As is usually the case, the alternative routeing has different (more generous) time restrictions. (edit: beaten to it! Also I realise that I checked the reverse direction; the below validity codes apply to MAN-London tickets).

"Any Permitted" SVR at £69.00 - restriction 2C, valid into Euston or St P after 1130.
"Rte: Chesterfield" SVR at £98.50 - restriction 7E , valid into St P at or after 1005
"Rte: Chesterfield" SSR at £70.00 - restriction CI arrival at or after 1129.

The SVR is thus a cheaper option for those wanting to avoid Virgin's massive Anytime fares and short "Off Peak" windows. The SSR I would agree is naughty as it serves no purpose - it is effectively identical to the £69 ticket and has the same validity (being more expensive than the Any Permitted, it is valid on the same routes).

The existence of this fare could be down to EMT pushing the price up to above that of the the Any Permitted for a variety of reasons - not realising the price of the "competing" ticket, not understanding the Routeing Guide, or trying to discourage travel on this route at certain times.

Where a more expensive route specific fare exists, an Any Permitted is not valid via that route.

That is incorrect - that only applies to routes not listed in the routeing guide. London - Manchester via Sheffield is a mapped route and therefore is valid on a any permitted ticket.

Unfortunately NRE and some booking engines interpret this incorrectly, offering only the more expensive routed fare - as in this case and the thread a while ago regarding Manchester-Reading (where there is an Any Permitted, valid via London, and a more expensive London fare)