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Boris unveils the first roadworthy Borismaster

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Ivo

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Apologies if this has been covered already, but I can't see anything suggesting as much.

(from the TfL site: New bus for London)

The New Bus for London is a bus the Capital can be proud of. Inspired by the old Routemaster, it is modern, fully accessible and uses the latest green technology.

The first new bus for London was unveiled by Mayor Boris Johnson in Northern Ireland in November 2011.

It's the first bus designed specifically for the Capital's streets for more than 50 years. A significant feature inspired by the Routemaster is the open rear platform.

The prototype is due to arrive in London in December 2011, to be joined later by seven others. They're expected to enter passenger service in early 2012.

There is also a time-lapse video of it under construction and plenty of specifications for anyone interested.
 
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trentside

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I'd hoped this daftness would have been put to bed by now.

I've forgotten what the cost per bus is, but I believe it to be significantly higher than a standard double deck vehicle or articulated bus. What do you get for that? Something that looks hideous, with exceptionally poor seating capacity of only 62 (40/22).

The other major issue with these, they have no prospects outside of London when it comes for them to be retired. I don't believe these could possibly be another Routemaster in the making - the world has moved on. With ever changing accessibility and emissions regulations they will be ousted from the streets (providing they get there in any significant numbers) before you know it.

Frankly the whole thing is farcical and I'm amazed it's got this far.
 

jon0844

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Are all the lights LED lamps?

Does it have air conditioning?

Given the futuristic design, why couldn't they have developed a high-definition LED display to allow TfL to finally accept the replacement of the blinds for something that would offer as good legibility as we have now (or even more, as the LEDs would make the displays easier to read from a distance)?

Otherwise, all we have is a bus with an odd looking seating arrangement and weird exterior - which may attract tourists but serves little actual purpose and will no doubt date incredibly quickly.

As said above, how will these be cascaded to rural operators? I use buses that are ex-London buses, but doubt they'll buy these things.

On the other hand, I recently went on one of the new hybrid 73 buses, and that's a great bus. Ran on electric power for a lot of the time (in traffic, when idle at stops), has air con upstairs, nice seating and - well, a perfectly good bus that is 'off the shelf' so-to-speak.
 

fgwrich

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...At least the first lot are to be built by Wrights, so they won't fall apart / shake themselves to death as quickly as our well known scottish builder - Our 08 plate Enviros are AWFUL! :-x :lol:
 

WatcherZero

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This photo of the unveiling says it all:

_56481274_boriswrighbus.jpg


more video of the launch with boris behind the wheel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0pXnprQvSA

Also at a time the rail industry is facing a major cost cutting program these buses employ a seperate conductor, if just 10% of London buses were these models they would cost another £54m a year to operate. Tfl is saying that to keep costs down they will run most with no conductor, but that would mean that the extra doors would have to be locked, making the whole thing a total waste of money.
 

bb21

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Even if Boris gets ousted at the next election, we're stuck with these ugly monsters. The last thing we want is another episode of political struggle wasting millions replacing perfectly fine vehicles. They'll be on the streets for probably the next ten years or more. Embrace yourselves.
 

WatcherZero

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Though thankfully London hasnt actually signed up to buy more than the prototypes....yet.
 

Schnellzug

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We'll just have to hope Boris doesn't remain as mayor!

So the pendulum will swing once again, and Ken will scrap them (before, hopefully, too many of the things have been delivered) and, what, reintroduce artics? Was this the sole point of having a Mayor for London, so that they can use buses as a football?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
...At least the first lot are to be built by Wrights, so they won't fall apart / shake themselves to death as quickly as our well known scottish builder - Our 08 plate Enviros are AWFUL! :-x :lol:

That's the thing, isn't it; Wrights have invested so much in it, whereas the Bendy Buses were a drop in the ocean for Mercedes, who didn't have to spend anything in design and development of something specially for London, the city where conditions are so exceptional (:roll:) that they always have to have specially designed Buses. If the program was to be scrapped by a "new" Mayor, how much money would Wrights see going down the drain?
 

jopsuk

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Even if Boris gets ousted at the next election, we're stuck with these ugly monsters. The last thing we want is another episode of political struggle wasting millions replacing perfectly fine vehicles. They'll be on the streets for probably the next ten years or more. Embrace yourselves.

isn't the current contract for only seven or so of them?
 

Schnellzug

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prototypes, yes, but considering the amount of design effort Wrights must have put in, I think they'd be decidedly disgruntled if Ken decided to use it as yet another political football.
 

anthony263

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...At least the first lot are to be built by Wrights, so they won't fall apart / shake themselves to death as quickly as our well known scottish builder - Our 08 plate Enviros are AWFUL! :-x :lol:

Nothing wrong with our enviro 200's in fact there are more on order including some new enviro 300's to replace our volvo b10m's which are due to be retired in early 2012.

As for wrights yes they are ok, Although I would suggest you have a go on their new streetlite, I had a ride on a demostrator yesterday horrible thing, where is a solo when you want 1
 

Voyager 2093

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It does have air conditioning as it has no opening windows. I think the original cost for 1 vehicle was evaluated at something silly like £1m but the price would be significantly reduced when ordered in bulk. To be honest, I don't like this thing, its ugly, non-practical and just another media stunt in a desperate attempt for Boris Johnson to win over his critics.
 

anthony263

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It does have air conditioning as it has no opening windows. I think the original cost for 1 vehicle was evaluated at something silly like £1m but the price would be significantly reduced when ordered in bulk. To be honest, I don't like this thing, its ugly, non-practical and just another media stunt in a desperate attempt for Boris Johnson to win over his critics.

I agree. Horrible thing this Borimaster is.
 

tbtc

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They'll be on the streets for probably the next ten years or more. Embrace yourselves.

Most London buses are "too old" after about ten years, and cascaded to "the provinces" where we have abandoned hope of regularly buying decent quantities of *new* buses in most towns/ cities.

Fair enough, an ex London double decker can still last as long outside the capital - apart from the "odd position" of the staircase there's little difference to newer (non-London) buses.

However, these brutes will be no use outside London.

Which means either (1) London keeping buses in service till they are fifteen/twenty years old (despite the fact that they don't meet the newest emission standards for 2025 etc), or (2) scrapping mechanically sound buses half way through their working life (because of the daft bodywork).

Aren't the Tories meant to be cutting down on daft public overspending?
 

Nym

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Thank god I'm not the only one who doesn't see the problem with off the shelf too door double decker designs that will cost half as much and be able to be sold for twice as much as the're usable outside London!
 

pemma

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The other major issue with these, they have no prospects outside of London when it comes for them to be retired.

Yes they'll have to remain in London until they are life expired. How will London cope knowing they can't cascade their old vehicles somewhere else and get nice new ones to replace them.

with exceptionally poor seating capacity of only 62 (40/22).

Most children know for safety reasons you can't stand on the stairs or upstairs on a double decker, while on a bendy bus you can stand in both sections. Unfortunately, Boris didn't realise.
 

Rational Plan

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Which means either (1) London keeping buses in service till they are fifteen/twenty years old (despite the fact that they don't meet the newest emission standards for 2025 etc), or (2) scrapping mechanically sound buses half way through their working life (because of the daft bodywork).

These buses are the latest generation hybrids, the engine will charge the batteries, which drive electric motors for the wheels. I expect the bus may be a key component in driving down particulates in the centre of the city. A key aspect for avoiding fines from Europe. So no these buses will not have problems meeting future atr standards. The design is a just a shell, the key technology is the engines. I imagine they will also produce a two door version for the inner suburbs in the near future. Well see how much two staircases matter to loading speed.
 

Daimler

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I've forgotten what the cost per bus is, but I believe it to be significantly higher than a standard double deck vehicle or articulated bus. What do you get for that? Something that looks hideous, with exceptionally poor seating capacity of only 62 (40/22).

The cost per bus is reported to be comparable (perhaps marginally more) than other double-deck buses using similar hybrid technology. Of course, these first few will have cost a lot more than that, as they are shouldering much of the development cost for the new bus. Once full-scale production has started, the average cost should fall to an acceptable level.

Regarding the bus in general, while I'm not sure London needed a bespoke bus to suit the city (and one of dubious use elsewhere in the country at that), I personally think that it's a great design, both from a visual and a technical point of view - figures show it to be significantly more environmentally friendly than either conventional or other hybrid buses*.

* Conventional Double-Decker: 5.8mpg, Current Hybrids: 8.6mpg, NBFL: 11.6mpg [source]
 

jon0844

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It does have air conditioning as it has no opening windows. I think the original cost for 1 vehicle was evaluated at something silly like £1m but the price would be significantly reduced when ordered in bulk. To be honest, I don't like this thing, its ugly, non-practical and just another media stunt in a desperate attempt for Boris Johnson to win over his critics.

Well, silly as the idea was, if they are air conditioned and the seats are comfortable; I actually think they'll be okay for most people (ignoring the cost and politics).

They'll have some attraction for visitors (or even people from the rest of the UK) and the environment will be far more comfortable in the summer for passengers who suffer hugely (especially upstairs) when stuck in traffic.

Hopefully it also means an end to the damp conditions when a bus ends up all misted up in the winter.

Nevertheless, they could have added aircon to any exiting new builds of current design buses that seem to do the job here and abroad! Will these new buses be a lot better than the hybrid buses Arriva just introduced on the 73 route?
 
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Mojo

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It looks even better than the mock-up and cannot wait to see these on the streets. Hopefully TfL will ensure this is of top quality and better than those rattling and shaking 'off the shelf' designs.

London does need its own unique design as continental designs are generally unsuitable on London roads and regional stage-carriage traffic is of a different nature, and typically far less busy. Although saying that with more and more local authorities and PTEs wishing to start up their own statutory quality schemes they could use these vehicles elsewhere?
 

90019

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These buses are the latest generation hybrids, the engine will charge the batteries, which drive electric motors for the wheels.

Just like all the other news hybrids then.

London does need its own unique design as continental designs are generally unsuitable on London roads and regional stage-carriage traffic is of a different nature, and typically far less busy.

What has suddenly changed to require a bespoke design?
Other than stupid looking bodywork, what exactly is there inside that's not available on any other design?

Although saying that with more and more local authorities and PTEs wishing to start up their own statutory quality schemes they could use these vehicles elsewhere?

I find it highly unlikely that this design will make it beyond London.
 

Mojo

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What has suddenly changed to require a bespoke design?
Other than stupid looking bodywork, what exactly is there inside that's not available on any other design?
Nothing has changed (aside from the huge growth in passenger numbers) but the current 'off the shelf' vehicles are unsuitable on a lot of the routes.

To misquote one of my most hated platitudes...
"If it's broke... then hurry up and fix it!"
 

Mojo

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So, if this new design is needed, how have they managed up until now without it?
They haven't! Whilst many are trying to bury their heads in the sand and pretend a problem doesn't exist, TfL are attempting to try something new and deliver a brilliant new bus.

Loading times are too slow, boarding/alighting is not possible anywhere other than bus stops, the amount of standing space is insufficient, many of the vehicles make a racket, and so on.

With the abolition of bendy buses which helped to resolve many of those problems, but caused many more, then something else was needed.
 

90019

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Loading times are too slow, boarding/alighting is not possible anywhere other than bus stops, the amount of standing space is insufficient, many of the vehicles make a racket, and so on.

This requires a bus with less seating than a normal bus, 2 staircases to take up even more space, and with 3 different types of door just to increase the maintainance cost, does it?
 

Schnellzug

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What exactly is so exceptional about London that they need to have everything specially designed? I think really, in most other cities the congestion is no worse than it ever was in London (the Congestion Charge was just a way to generate money for TfL, rather than being something that was needed because it was so bad in london). Is not being able to hop on & off between stops not a desirable thing in London, but just something that they have to put up with in Manchester, Bristol, Glasgow etc?
 

jopsuk

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the drive train IS essentially off-the-shelf, in that it is the latest version of the same hybrid drive train already common in London.

The chances of that rear platform being open between stops is still low...
 

Mojo

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Everywhere else manages

Where else has such a high passenger volume?

Does everywhere else manage; or would they rather in fact have an open platform?
 
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