• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Manchester Metrolink T68's Phased out

Status
Not open for further replies.

callum112233

Member
Joined
8 Sep 2011
Messages
379
Location
Wigan
It was obviously inevitable that the old trams would eventually become extinct since the new Bombardier trams came onto the scene, but does anyone else feel that Metrolink could have chosen something a bit more appropriate to take over the old T68's?

I think the new Bombardier trams have a bad interior design. For example, there are hardly ANY seats compared to the old T68's. They feel too empty and like there is something missing. I was reading that they are ten tonnes lighter than the T68's so therefore mire economical, but surely they are only ten tonnes lighter because of the minimal interior.

Has anyone else got any views about Metrolink's new choice of tram?

I also wonder if there is anyone who will preserve a T68, since it's quite an icon of the north west. :D
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

theblackwatch

Established Member
Joined
15 Feb 2006
Messages
10,714
Manchester Museum of Science & Industry would be an ideal location to house one.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,266
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
Many Metrolink users have complained about the reduction in the seating capacity per tram unit of the new 5000 series when compared to the T68 and the usual reply is that these trams are used on short journeys where the seating capacity is not important.

That may well be true in the Manchester city centre, but such is their use at peak periods, journeys from Bury and Altrincham are not so comfortable in these trams for users. Soon, we will have journeys on the line to Oldham and Rochdale which is quite a lengthy journey, then soon after this the routes to Parrs Wood, Ashton under Lyne and Manchester Airport will be in operation.
 

callum112233

Member
Joined
8 Sep 2011
Messages
379
Location
Wigan
Many Metrolink users have complained about the reduction in the seating capacity per tram unit of the new 5000 series when compared to the T68

Maybe Metrolink's idea was that in peak hours, more people will fit on if they are stood up as opposed to being seated. Also a lot of elderly people tend to use the tram. I'm sure they won't be chuffed about potentially having to stand up all the way to Olham from Manchester. As you stated, it's quite a way to travel.
 

Schnellzug

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2011
Messages
2,926
Location
Evercreech Junction
Maybe Metrolink's idea was that in peak hours, more people will fit on if they are stood up as opposed to being seated. Also a lot of elderly people tend to use the tram. I'm sure they won't be chuffed about potentially having to stand up all the way to Olham from Manchester. As you stated, it's quite a way to travel.

the same school of thought that gave London the Bendybuses...
Although to be fair, journeys were usually a bit shorter there.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
I think they were influenced a bit in layout by the Class 378 ordered at roughly the same time. Yes was designed for heavy peak crush loads rather than high density seating for offpeaks.
 

Welshman

Established Member
Joined
11 Mar 2010
Messages
3,017
I'm not a Manchester resident, so I've not as much experience of the trams as others, but must confess that when I do use them, I prefer the older, T68s to the newer ones. The T68s seem more solid and more spacious, and offer a greater chance of getting a seat. I think its a pity that Metrolink is thinking of replacing them before they are life-expired, and can't quite understand the economics of that, especially when Northern seem to be having to retain their pacers until 2019, or they rattle to bits [whichever comes sooner!].

Incidentally, regarding preservation, IIRC the Manchester Museum of Transport on Boyle St houses the original T68 prototype, No. 1000.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
Prototype is a strong word, its just half a bodyshell that was done as a mockup.
 

pemma

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
31,474
Location
Knutsford
The M5000 interior resembles a modern German tram more than a T68. Remember the Germans have different tram systems for different towns and cities and have S-Bahn and sometimes tram-train linking the towns and cities. You could easily find two German towns/cities as close to one another as Manchester and Stockport which both have their own tram network, opposed to the Metrolink approach of many towns sharing one system.
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
It was built and shipped over to demonstrate trams to the public (same as the mockup in Edinburgh) and so the PTE could approve the interior layout choices.
 

callum112233

Member
Joined
8 Sep 2011
Messages
379
Location
Wigan
Manchester Museum of Science & Industry would be an ideal location to house one.

That's a nice idea. Probably wouldn't happen though unless Metrolink donated it for free which seems fair enough, since they are going to be scrapped at the end of their service anyway.
It would be a shame not to save one.
They are quite an icon for the city.
 

Schnellzug

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2011
Messages
2,926
Location
Evercreech Junction
That's a nice idea. Probably wouldn't happen though unless Metrolink donated it for free which seems fair enough, since they are going to be scrapped at the end of their service anyway.
It would be a shame not to save one.
They are quite an icon for the city.

Oh, very much so, as the start (and perhaps most succesful) of the new generation tram systems in the UK.
 

ChrisCooper

Established Member
Joined
7 Sep 2005
Messages
1,787
Location
Loughborough
Presumably Crich would want one too. A T68 and a Centenary would really show the modern development of the British Tram, the last of the traditional style trams and the first of the modern "Super Trams".
 

pemma

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
31,474
Location
Knutsford
Presumably Crich would want one too. A T68 and a Centenary would really show the modern development of the British Tram, the last of the traditional style trams and the first of the modern "Super Trams".

Crich organise at least one working a day with an accessible tram, should persons with disabilities be visiting. They currently use Berlin tram 3006 for that purpose but I imagine they'd be happy using a T68 in the future.
 

Csalem

Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
292
Location
Dublin, Ireland
It was built and shipped over to demonstrate trams to the public (same as the mockup in Edinburgh) and so the PTE could approve the interior layout choices.

Was the Edinburgh one a mock up or the real thing? I know that when our Luas system was being built in Dublin, it was so far behind schedule that they were able to put a completed Citadis tram on display for people to view. Think that was around 01/02 and the system opened in 04... :)
 

WatcherZero

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2010
Messages
10,272
They shipped two, one was a mockup and a couple of years later the first production line one was shipped and put on display. The rest of the fleet has only just started to be delivered.
 

bluegoblin7

Established Member
Joined
10 May 2011
Messages
1,356
Location
JB/JP/JW
Crich organise at least one working a day with an accessible tram, should persons with disabilities be visiting. They currently use Berlin tram 3006 for that purpose but I imagine they'd be happy using a T68 in the future.

T68s are high platform vehicles and would be completely unsuitable for operating at Crich.

There are no plans to add one to the National Collection at the moment to the best of my knowledge.

Finally, 3006 only runs as required - it is not out every day and there is only one accessible tram in the fleet. Your wording is rather ambiguous.

Jack
 

Schnellzug

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2011
Messages
2,926
Location
Evercreech Junction
just out of curiosity, did tramways in the old days have a standard voltage? Metrolink is 750 v dc, I find, but what do they use at Crich? And did all tramway systems use the same voltage? There's trams from Blackpool, Leeds, London, Chesterfield, all over the place, aren't there. I know that some systems used different gauges, but were they technically all compatible?
 

MCR247

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2008
Messages
9,563
Green? Yes, none have been replaced yet? That would require extra trams?
 

jamesontheroad

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2009
Messages
2,032
It was built and shipped over to demonstrate trams to the public (same as the mockup in Edinburgh) and so the PTE could approve the interior layout choices.

Better than the mocked up 380 Scotrail displayed in Central Station last year (and now in the really expensive / really small Riverside Museum). They had comment cards for visitors to give feedback, even though the design had been completely signed off by then. Completely pointless as a consultation exercise.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top