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London to Brentwood

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ji459

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Looking at fares from London to Brentwood and back on a Saturday, the cheapest fare I found on the Southeastern website was a super off peak day return at £8.30. The origin is down as London Terminals and all the trains shown depart from London Liverpool Street. If I amend the search to say avoid London Liverpool Street, I get the same £8.30 fare. However, the origins change to either London Bridge or London St Pancras. The itineraries for the London Bridge departures show travel by tube to Stratford and for London St Pancras show travel on HS1 to Stratford International and then "Metro" to Stratford.

Being able to travel to and from London Bridge or London St Pancras with that ticket would be ideal, but I'm amazed that it seems to be possible. Is it really true?
 
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yorkie

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It's incorrect. There are fares from London Terminals to Brentwood, which include a £8.30 ticket which is a 'CBA - SUP OFFPK DAY R'

But if you were to start the journey on the London Underground, then you would require a ticket with an appropriate origin, in the case of a Zone 1 station that would be 'Zone U1* London', and there is no 'CBA' fare on offer from that origin.

If you are travelling from near London Bridge, my recommendation would be to take a bus to Liverpool Street, and use a London Terminals ticket from there.

If you are travelling from London St Pancras, then there is a good argument to say that London St Pancras to Stratford International, then a walk to Stratford London, followed by a train to Brentwood is valid (see other topics). However transfer by DLR is not included in the price. You can walk through Westfield Shopping Centre.

You could try contacting NRE about this misleading information, and if a satisfactory response is not received you can take it to Passenger Focus/London Travelwatch.
 

district

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If the origin is 'London Terminals' then you are permitted to start your journey from any London Terminal along any reasonable and permitted route, by which London Bridge and London St. Pancras are both examples.

CBA - SUP OFFPK DAY R XEA
00000 - ANY PERMITTED

1 Adult @£ 8.30 = £ 8.30
__________
£ 8.30

Standard Class Return

To my knowledge this ticket isn't valid with the London Underground connection between London Bridge and Stratford. The HS1 connection should be valid under the 'Any Permitted' route description.

Edit: This agrees with yorkie's post above. LU isn't included on this ticket but starting from a reasonable london mainline terminal and using national rail is.
 

coupwotcoup

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Many people who travel from Brentwood to London drive to Harold Wood first (last station in Zone 6) as our local streets can testify each and every day.
 

bb21

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My interpretation of the situation is that travel from St Pancras is allowed as it is an "Any Permitted" ticket and transferring at Stratford means that the St Pancras route is only 2 miles longer than the shortest route, hence valid.
 

barrykas

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My interpretation of the situation is that travel from St Pancras is allowed as it is an "Any Permitted" ticket and transferring at Stratford means that the St Pancras route is only 2 miles longer than the shortest route, hence valid.

Southeastern would, rightly or wrongly, disagree with you. From their website:

Southeastern said:
If you have a ticket to London Terminals, an outboundary** Travelcard ticket or you hold a Season ticket, you can upgrade to high speed services by paying a supplement in addition to your current ticket.

And also:

The following ticket descriptions entitle you to travel on high speed services:
  • ANY PERMITTED - in the case of long distance through tickets, i.e. destinations beyond St Pancras.

And indeed, putting St Pancras to Brentwood via Stratford International into FasTIS comes up with an "Illegal Routeing" warning. Zone U1 (more accurately, Marylebone, so as to give times) to Brentwood, on the other hand, shows as being perfectly valid via HS1.

Cheers,

Barry
 

bb21

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Southeastern would, rightly or wrongly, disagree with you. From their website:

If Stratford London - Stratford International is an official interchange then SET cannot overwrite a route permitted by the Routeing Guide.

I shall be very cross with SET if a Route Any Permitted fare excludes travel on HS1 on a permitted route.
 

barrykas

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If Stratford London - Stratford International is an official interchange then SET cannot overwrite a route permitted by the Routeing Guide.

Except such journeys are explicitly NOT permitted by the routeing guide, per "easement" 600069:

Rail Settlement Plan said:
Customers travelling from Stratford Domestic station to London St Pancras may not travel via Stratford International. This easement applies in both directions.

Whilst I grant you that the "from" should probably be "from/via", the intention seems quite clear to me...
 

bb21

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Whilst I grant you that the "from" should probably be "from/via", the intention seems quite clear to me...

Ah, but a certain few people (not including me just to clarify) on the forum will tell you that easements are not applicable to shortest routes as they do not need to be consulted. :lol:
 

NLC1072

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As an expert on Brentwood fares, I can tell you that. The £8.30 London terminals is only valid to Liverpool st or Stratford...
 
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I had a fair bit of trouble a while ago when trying to use a Zone U1 to Chelmsford ticket via HS1. Eventually, Southeastern admitted it was a valid route by the 3 mile rule, but they said they would be amending the fares to fix this. This hasn't materialised. There are fares from St Pancras to Brentwood route 'Plus High Speed' but I see no reason why you must buy these when London Terminals to Brentwood is route Any Permitted. Just don't expect it to be straightforward on the day.

The negative easement (should they actually be enforceable) only applies to journey from Stratford Domestic not via Stratford Domestic as written.
 

NLC1072

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I had a fair bit of trouble a while ago when trying to use a Zone U1 to Chelmsford ticket via HS1. Eventually, Southeastern admitted it was a valid route by the 3 mile rule, but they said they would be amending the fares to fix this. This hasn't materialised. There are fares from St Pancras to Brentwood route 'Plus High Speed' but I see no reason why you must buy these when London Terminals to Brentwood is route Any Permitted. Just don't expect it to be straightforward on the day.

The negative easement (should they actually be enforceable) only applies to journey from Stratford Domestic not via Stratford Domestic as written.

Theres an actual specific fare which is entered into the tribute machines as BRE - STP and instead of London Terminals (1072) coming up, it routes you high speed and into St Pancras.
 

bb21

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Theres an actual specific fare which is entered into the tribute machines as BRE - STP and instead of London Terminals (1072) coming up, it routes you high speed and into St Pancras.

Unfortunately I cannot see how SET can justify refusing travel on the aforementioned cheaper ticket to STP.
 
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