UK vs continental ticket format

[newmilton]

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but here goes:

I recently booked a relatively straightforward journey from Burton-on-Trent to Staines, Staines to Beckenham, then Beckenham back to Burton. The result: three different booking codes and, when I went to the machine to collect them, new fewer than 11 pieces of cardboard - tickets, reservations, receipts etc.

I'm fairly sure if I'd made a similar booking in France or Italy I would have needed only the card used to make the booking and my surname to see all my bookings, and everything would have been printed on a maximum of three tickets ... very possibly all on the same ticket.

What is the argument in favour of the UK system, and why can't it be simplified?

 

[cuccir]

Horses for courses really.

Ours fit nicely into pockets, wallets and the like. But sometimes you end up with a load of tickets. Theirs tend to be 'airline style' tickets, but you only need one. I guess ours are better for short journeys, whereas others are better for long distance.

I suppose what would be ideal would be a redesign which got more info onto our smaller tickets, but that is very difficult!

What is the argument in favour of the UK system, and why can't it be simplified?

Any change would result in the cost of replacing all ticket issuing machines. The cost of this would outweigh benefits to passengers.

 

[LexyBoy]

The argument is basically that that's what we've got, and it would be a massive hassle to change.

You should only have had one booking code for your tickets though if you booked them together - most sites allow you to add tickets to a basket and pay for all together.

Personally I'd agree that Advance tickets should be on continental-style tickets - that way there's no way of losing the reservation(s) and it's all much simpler. Ticket barriers shouldn't accept Advance tickets anyway IMO so no problem there; the only trouble would be printing the ticket.

For most tickets, I think people would be rather annoyed if their conveniently wallet-sized tickets were replaced by whacking great things.

 

[Eagle]

You should only have had one booking code for your tickets though if you booked them together - most sites allow you to add tickets to a basket and pay for all together.

Not always true; I know that if you're buying split tickets with VT, even if you put them all in the basket and make a single payment, you get more than one booking code.

 

[Deerfold]

Ticket barriers shouldn't accept Advance tickets anyway IMO so no problem there; the only trouble would be printing the ticket.

For routes with a lot of passengers using Advance tickets that'd cause chaos. Kings X would be even worse than it is now when EC comes in - there's no way people would be able to check all the advance tickets thorouhgly without causing huge delays.

 

[SS4]

Our tickets are easy to buy on behalf of others. Say my brother buys a ticket for me: naturally he is not going to give me his card but he can collect them and give me the ticket.

Our journeys are more modular. If you lose one part then you needn't replace the whole Ticket. Additionally, at what point do passengers responsibilities begin?

 

[LexyBoy]

For routes with a lot of passengers using Advance tickets that'd cause chaos. Kings X would be even worse than it is now when EC comes in - there's no way people would be able to check all the advance tickets thorouhgly without causing huge delays.

Much better for the passenger though than letting them through only for them to face a huge penalty fare when the guard points out they're on the wrong train though.

(The whole ticket barrier debate has been done to death. My view is that barriers are inappropriate at IC stations - KGX especially - for these and other reasons).
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Not always true; I know that if you're buying split tickets with VT, even if you put them all in the basket and make a single payment, you get more than one booking code.

Fair enough, didn't know that. Either way, it's a feature of the booking system, not the final ticket.

 

[island]

Eurostar/French/Belgian/American shaped tickets don't fit in your pocket, which is horrid.

 

[yorksrob]

Personally I'd agree that Advance tickets should be on continental-style tickets - that way there's no way of losing the reservation(s) and it's all much simpler. Ticket barriers shouldn't accept Advance tickets anyway IMO so no problem there; the only trouble would be printing the ticket.

For most tickets, I think people would be rather annoyed if their conveniently wallet-sized tickets were replaced by whacking great things.

Personally, I'd rather keep the wallet sized tickets for all journeys.

 

[SS4]

Much better for the passenger though than letting them through only for them to face a huge penalty fare when the guard points out they're on the wrong train though.

Along with gateline staff training I suspect since BHM's manual barriers are not very thorough. Additionally, we were essentially waved though at MYB with the WCML problems earlier this month.

I shan't comment on barriers since it's been done to death

Give me wallet sized tickets (especially NR's 3 pouch railcard one) and I don't think it's that difficult to keep them together. It seems to me that a lot of people want to keep their rights (cheap advance tickets) but wish to absolve their responsibilities (not keeping the mandatory reservation with the ticket/losing the ticket)

edit: How many people are going to have more than four tickets for a journey? Do we inconvenience the small amount or include everyone at great cost?

 

[WestCoast]

I recently kept hold of the tickets for an organised excursion of five people, all with Advance Singles. There was literally about 25 tickets. More if you count receipts.

 

[142094]

In an ideal word you'd only get one ticket. But of course we do not live in an ideal world. I'm sure some people like having lots of different tickets and some don't but there has to be a compromise and not everyone wins. I bet there are people in France wishing they had credit card sized tickets as the airline ones are too big to fit into pockets.

 

[bb21]

Personally I'd agree that Advance tickets should be on continental-style tickets - that way there's no way of losing the reservation(s) and it's all much simpler.

Me too. In addition, we had the system in place, but we got rid of it.

 

[Bungle73]

How could we have two different sizes of ticket? It would be unworkable, and a waste of money.

 

[WestCoast]

How could we have two different sizes of ticket? It would be unworkable, and a waste of money.

Advance tickets used to be printed on larger ticket ELGAR stock (Eurostar still uses it), however, it was phased out most probably due to automatic ticket barriers, accepting only credit card sized tickets.

If we're talking about continental rail tickets, I'd love to see DB's print@home system being used in the UK, although on a voluntary basis in addition to post and TOD. Almost all tickets can be printed at home (one single A4 sheet with all the info on it) with a barcode which is scanned onboard and verified with ID (railcard, credit or debit card, passport, over 60s bus pass or whatever).

 

[Bungle73]

Advance tickets used to be printed on larger ticket ELGAR stock (Eurostar still uses it), however, it was phased out most probably due to automatic ticket barriers, accepting only credit card sized tickets.

Yeah, but that was years ago, before you could get them printed out at a TVM; and as you say before automatic ticket barriers.

If we're talking about continental rail tickets, I'd love to see DB's print@home system being used in the UK. Almost all tickets can be printed at home with a barcode which is scanned onboard and verified with ID (railcard, credit or debit card, passport, over 60s bus pass or whatever).

Some TOCs do Print@Home tickets.

 

[WestCoast]

Some TOCs do Print@Home tickets.

They do, but it's limited to just a few routes. SNCB in Belgium also offer almost all single/return tickets for self-printing, it's very convenient if you have access to a printer.

 

[142094]

They do, but it's limited to just a few routes. SNCB in Belgium also offer almost all single/return tickets for self-printing, it's very convenient if you have access to a printer.

Creates a bit of a lost generation of travellers who don't have access to the internet or a printer.

 

[SS4]

Advance tickets used to be printed on larger ticket ELGAR stock (Eurostar still uses it), however, it was phased out most probably due to automatic ticket barriers, accepting only credit card sized tickets.

If we're talking about continental rail tickets, I'd love to see DB's print@home system being used in the UK, although on a voluntary basis in addition to post and TOD. Almost all tickets can be printed at home (one single A4 sheet with all the info on it) with a barcode which is scanned onboard and verified with ID (railcard, credit or debit card, passport, over 60s bus pass or whatever).

This would be a good idea although I think a QR code would be better than a barcode and there should be a facility to leave it on your smart phone which can be read by the guards machine (presumably the same one as reads barcodes)

I've seen chiltern trial m-tickets on barriers too (the far left barriers at MYB iirc)

 

[AlterEgo]

They do, but it's limited to just a few routes. SNCB in Belgium also offer almost all single/return tickets for self-printing, it's very convenient if you have access to a printer.

Just a few routes? It's available throughout the XC, EC and VT networks. That's the majority of intercity journeys.

 

[WestCoast]

Just a few routes? It's available throughout the XC, EC and VT networks. That's the majority of intercity journeys.

Yes, but purely on their routes, you can't buy tickets with connections on other TOCs, which rules it out on many, many journeys.
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Creates a bit of a lost generation of travellers who don't have access to the internet or a printer.

You don't have to use it! Other options such as the ticket office, travel agents and TVMs would still be available. Just because some people can't use it, doesn't mean it shouldn't happen at all.

In fact, you actually have to use a printer to fly on Ryanair. The railways would never even approach that level of requirement.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This would be a good idea although I think a QR code would be better than a barcode and there should be a facility to leave it on your smart phone which can be read by the guards machine (presumably the same one as reads barcodes)

The DB system does indeed use QR codes.

I think we've got to more innovative with ticketing aside from smart cards, which I can't see being that handy for occasional travellers. Just look at the airlines, you can often check-in online, select your seat and print a boarding pass or have it sent to your phone. Chiltern and others are hitting this level of innovation, but it should be network wide.

 

[craigwilson]

Ticket barriers shouldn't accept Advance tickets anyway IMO so no problem there; the only trouble would be printing the ticket.

I find it depends on the station. Barriers at London Victoria accept my advance tickets, but St Pancras never has.

 

[ajdunlop]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... SmartCards. Once they are more widespread you will only need one card which fits in your pocket and holds all your tickets. I suppose the downside in terms of usability is that you can't just look at it and see what tickets you've got but presumably you will be able to see what's on your smart card at a TVM.

 

[button_boxer]

This would be a good idea although I think a QR code would be better than a barcode and there should be a facility to leave it on your smart phone which can be read by the guards machine (presumably the same one as reads barcodes)

The DB system does in fact use 2D barcodes (the Aztec type rather than QR but it's the same kind of principle). As does Eurostar on their print at home tickets, which are readable by the checkin gates.

 

[SS4]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... SmartCards. Once they are more widespread you will only need one card which fits in your pocket and holds all your tickets. I suppose the downside in terms of usability is that you can't just look at it and see what tickets you've got but presumably you will be able to see what's on your smart card at a TVM.

Plus the complete annihilation of Break of Journey (including stopping/starting short)

The idea of some code of QR code (or similar) would be that you needn't print your ticket but just use your phone as said ticket

 

[Oswyntail]

Plus the complete annihilation of Break of Journey (including stopping/starting short)..

A tad apocalyptic! I don't see why this should be. So long as the design of the product is done properly (what sort of ticketing, routeing, Conditions, do our customers require in the 21st century?) rather than the traditional way (how can we reproduce the current system with all its faults?) it is perfectly achievable. Of course, it needs the will to move the industry out of the 19th century.....:-?

 

[SS4]

A tad apocalyptic! I don't see why this should be. So long as the design of the product is done properly (what sort of ticketing, routeing, Conditions, do our customers require in the 21st century?) rather than the traditional way (how can we reproduce the current system with all its faults?) it is perfectly achievable. Of course, it needs the will to move the industry out of the 19th century.....:-?

The technology is there but the will is not. Oyster could have supported BoJ but chose not to which, as long as the cap is not reached, costs more than it should

 

[camperdown9]

Hi

If I buy a return ticket from my home station to London with a one day travel card for the underground included. Its all issued on one ticket.

But..If I buy a return ticket from my home station to any place else its issued as 2 tickets. Why can't return or even maybe up to 4 sectors be issued on one piece of card?

Alex

 

[thedbdiboy]

There is a lot of work taking place within the industry to address all the issues discussed above. Key objectives are to reduce number of pieces of cardboard being issued; provide better information within the existing credit card sized ticket format; and ensure that the design principles translate well for print@home or mobile device. This is all in parallel with the smartcard work as it is recognised that printed tickets will need to sit alongside them for some considerable time to come! It is work in progress but should start rolling out in 2012 sometime.

 

[Bungle73]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... SmartCards. Once they are more widespread you will only need one card which fits in your pocket and holds all your tickets. I suppose the downside in terms of usability is that you can't just look at it and see what tickets you've got but presumably you will be able to see what's on your smart card at a TVM.

And how are you supposed to know which seat you're supposed to be sitting in? Having to go to a TVM is no good.