WatcherZero
Established Member
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- 25 Feb 2010
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What not to do? Dont cave in to local pressure for a station for every town?
The nature of the Great Northern services on the ECML will be dramatically changed after the full Thameslink programme is implemented by the end of the decade. The commuter services that we know now as First Capital Connect will have difficulty acquiring many more paths on the southern ECML, due to a limit on the maximum number of paths through the Thameslink core.
A number of MPs have made comments on the proposed route which suggest that the section to Leeds will stop at what look like parkway stations at Totton and Meadowhall.
What not to do? Dont cave in to local pressure for a station for every town?
Well, if you think it through, let's suppose you build an HS2 and decide to put in a stop for Birmingham Airport (and/or Manchester Airport).The effect of "slow down for stops" is quite heavily overstated in my opinion, if you look at the Tokaido Shinkansen for instance, you can see that it has more stops per unit length than the ECML does, and that manages to serve "minor towns".
Theres another problem, points. A high speed train has to slow down for points, it cant take them at full speed or it would derail. The more turnoffs you have the more you would have chokepoints.
Do they want to commit to building it all though at this time? It is quite expensive. It may be that once built from London to Birmingham that there are no finances available to continue for some time.couldn't they start building it in lots of places at the same time? That's what DB have been doing with the Nuremberg-Erfurt-Leipzig high speed line
Do they want to commit to building it all though at this time? It is quite expensive. It may be that once built from London to Birmingham that there are no finances available to continue for some time.
Unless King's Cross and Moorgate are planning on closing some time soon there will be plenty of paths on the southern ECML that dont involve heading into Thameslink.
As I understand it the Thameslink paths are supplementary
5.13.4 Beyond 2018, the Thameslink Programme
will alleviate suburban capacity constraints and
improve connectivity, by enabling commuter
services to continue through the Thameslink
tunnels, rather than needing to terminate at London
Kings Cross. However, no (or very few) additional
peak trains relative to today will be able to run
through the critical Welwyn viaduct area, so it
is likely that frequency increases in the morning
peak will generally be restricted to inner suburban
services. These will benefit from a combination
of the Thameslink Programme and committed
infrastructure enhancements in the Finsbury Park
to Alexandra Palace area, with six fully usable
tracks planned.
5.13.5 The introduction of the planned ECML
Thameslink services results in trains being diverted
away from London Kings Cross and running through
Central London instead. London Kings Cross station
itself therefore sees a slightly lower level of train
service following the Thameslink Programme, but
the planned capacity increase at London St. Pancras
International low level from the ECML is greater
than this reduction, especially if standing space
is included.
Costs per mile are cheaper in the North.... It is quite expensive. It may be that once built from London to Birmingham that there are no finances available to continue for some time.
Why is it be cheaper to build in the North? Even if it is, it will still be more expensive than just building the London to Birmingham section and then continuing if and when finances are available.Costs per mile are cheaper in the North.
Why is it be cheaper to build in the North? Even if it is, it will still be more expensive than just building the London to Birmingham section and then continuing if and when finances are available.
It makes sense to start building in London, after all, that is where some of the biggest capacity problems exist.
Call me cynical, but I'm of the belief it will (if at all) be built to Birmingham and not further.
So let each leg be privately financed and privately owned when completed. And compete on a basis of time and price with stopping trains on the classic lines.The issue here is finance, ... They could build it a lot faster but they would have to spend more than £2bn a year and they wont.
Even if that is the case (and don't think it will be, given enough time) it will still mean faster journeys from folkstone/london to scotland, because they'll get to Birmingham sooner.
Unless they allow the Pendos onto HS2, which apparently they wont as it would "kill capacity", they will not be able to use it for journies to Scotland because they would have no tilting stock, which means timings above Birmingham would be back to the Class 87/90 era.
Im of the opinion that it wont be built above Birmingham due to the inevitable balooning in costs, and that the leg to Leeds is a bad idea in the first place as it would simply route all the ECML traffic into Euston, HS2 should concentrate on the west midlands/north west and leave an ECML upgrade (quadroupling and cab signalling perhaps) to provide the neccesary capacity into Leeds and the north east.
For the North East its the Birmingham connection which is more important than the London connection.
The issue here is finance, the Governments committed to spending £2bn a year formerly Crossrail spend on the project, that means a slow pace of construction taking decades for full completion. They could build it a lot faster but they would have to spend more than £2bn a year and they wont.