Storage?
With such a shortage of AC commuter stock why can't they be used to displace something dual-voltage into the north where it'd be used?
Because they are absolutely F****D to put it bluntly.
They are worse than the ex silverlink 508/3's
Yep!
If you wan't to see how bad they are externally...Just take a look at some of Carl Watson pictures...
http://carlswatson.com/trains.html
As for Internally - Most still retain the ex NSE interiors, with the South Eastern Version 5.XXXX Livery were slightly modified interally, to i think carry bikes and lugguage on the Tonbridge to Redhill/Gatwick to London Bridge services ( God...Imagine using those for that service!) But other than that, i don't think there was that much interior work done...But other than thats already said, underneath...I would also described them as, in being polite, shot to pieces - you just have to see how many have come down by road to see that!
I know that this will sound a bit simplistic but...
If there is no hope of getting them into service (at a sensible price), then scrap them (and stop wasting money on storage etc).
If there is hope of getting them into service (at a sensible price), then get them into service. If we can't find the funds to get them upgraded now (with an EMU shortage, despite new lines being electrified over the next few years) then when?
I accept that units can't just go on forever, but someone needs to bite the bullet and decide whether we seriously rebuild them or just consign them for scrap. Shuffling them around the country like this doesn't help anyone.
My thoughts exactly. The same goes for all the stuff at long marston etc, whose paying for it all? why not just get rid of it and be done. If somebody wants one, then let them have it at scrap value and let them sort it out.
I know that this will sound a bit simplistic but...
If there is no hope of getting them into service (at a sensible price), then scrap them (and stop wasting money on storage etc).
If there is hope of getting them into service (at a sensible price), then get them into service. If we can't find the funds to get them upgraded now (with an EMU shortage, despite new lines being electrified over the next few years) then when?
I accept that units can't just go on forever, but someone needs to bite the bullet and decide whether we seriously rebuild them or just consign them for scrap. Shuffling them around the country like this doesn't help anyone.
They have only just gone off-lease. The Rosco is at least showing some interest by getting them to Eastleigh where there is some potential for getting them under cover and on the juice if they are not too far gone. Unlike Southeastern who in true govia tradition took the cheap and nasty option and just dumped them in the cheapest place possible.I accept that units can't just go on forever, but someone needs to bite the bullet and decide whether we seriously rebuild them or just consign them for scrap. Shuffling them around the country like this doesn't help anyone.
Something i totally agree with!
Apart from the obvious (Pantograph, Transformer etc), how different electrically are the 508s to 313s? Just thinking up the idea of rebuilding merseyrail style the 508s into duel voltage EMUs for suburban type services in the North West?...
It wouldn't be a good idea to have 1 unit for SWT; you'd need several others to cover for it. There's a reason Chiltern now has 2 bubble cars now!
Having a non-standard fleet also adds onto the costs. The heritage CIGs were withdrawn earlier than originally planned because of maintenance costs. I guess you could refurb these 508s and give them to Southern, but my understanding is that it would cost more than it's worth given how badly the units have been treated.
I'd argue it would be better to raid them for spares to help keep the 507s and 508s on Merseyrail working, then scrap them. The class is nearly 40 years old, so it's only going to get harder to obtain cheap new parts.
...It would actually be quite difficult to add transformer equipment to the 508's. The bodywork is identical, as are the traction motors, switch gear, resistor banks etc, but you would have to find the appropriate pantograph and convert the TOS, as well as rectifiers etc. The traction motors are DC.
507001 said:they're nowhere near 40 years, In fact the 508's are 30 this year! Introduced 1981-82, the 507's are a little older being of 1977-78 vintage, but I suppose they are still getting a bit long in the tooth now. Although if you ask me they are better than they have ever been, the Merseyrail 507's/8's and the southern 313's show just what a decent train they are! I believe the Prod PEP's are still among the fastest accelerating EMU's in the country? I wish they had done a DMU version instead of the pacers/150's
507001 said:In reality, never mind southern, they could do with being completely rebuilt (to current 508 standard) and sent up to merseyrail, who at several points over the last couple of years have been very short of units (50 of 53 units are needed for a daily service apparently, and at the moment theres only actually 52). But then, in reality merseyrail needs to concentrate on getting wabtec to finish 002 and getting that back in service before they take anything else on.
Do you know if Southern have any plans to replace their 313s with new trains in the not-so-distant future?
Ah...Mind you, there's always some of the ex 313 equipment going spare from Southern, from the now not so duel voltage Southern 313s (Pantograph removed, not sure as to whether the transformer has been too!)...
Doh! I was confusing their age with that of the general PEP design! They are indeed a good design, although I don't know how well a diesel version would do. Sprinters are pretty good at acceleration already.
Do you know if Southern have any plans to replace their 313s with new trains in the not-so-distant future? If so would their 313s be suitable for Merseyrail, or would the 507s/508s be replaced with, say, 378s by then?
507001 said:true they are pretty good at acceleration, but compared to the pep design, the interiors are quite cramped I find. Which is strange considering they are wider and taller!
313's would work perfectly well up here. I can't remember which one's but 2 313's came up to merseyrail on test before the 507's were ordered, but you would have the same dilemma, why use AC capable stock on DC only lines?
The only place where it would be possible to work a dual voltage unit (thanks to being the only place on my list that IS electrified, and not just on the wish list) would be Hunts Bank / Liverpool S Parkway
Working a service through from Liverpool Central onto Crewe with dual voltage would be a possibility (I believe the pointwork is there)
It beggars belief that the rosco didn't intervene at any point, given that an asset of theirs was being so maltreated by Southeastern. I guess it makes no difference to them whether the units they hire out are used or not, but surely the lease contracts must be priced according to the work required to re-lease them, and on the assumption that the toc won't simply hand back a skipful of rust at the end of however many years...?