Double Deck 9ft6..

[Flywaver]

With routes being cleared for larger Containers. Does this now make it feasible for Double Decked passenger services in the UK?

 

[OxtedL]

Essentially: no. Not in the sense of continental double deck services. The gauge that routes are being cleared to is typically W10 (or W12), which is still significantly smaller than used on the continent for double deck trains.

You could probably have a punt at double deck trains in common British gauges, but it wouldn't be fun.

 

[Bald Rick]

The top of W10 gauge (9'6" container on a standard freightliner wagon) is about the same height as standard W6 gauge. W12 is the same height but a bit wider.

The clearance work is to accomodate the square corners of the boxes, whereas standard loading gauge curves down to the body sides.

See page 114 of the Freight RUS for a diagram.


http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...tilisation strategies/freight/freight rus.pdf

 

[WatcherZero]

Width is important for double decker trains though, you need to have steps and a corridor connection both comfortably wide next to each other.

 

[es373]

Not unless they are planning to widen the kinematic envelope of UK gauge!

 

[Train jaune]

Been on the double deckers on the RER in Paris and upstairs is a bit claustrophbic when it fills up so can't see it working in the UK gauge. We need a new Tardis class of EMU maybe

 

[OxtedL]

I think you may have just found a solution to the UK's transport problems!

 

[jopsuk]

For truly comfortable double decker, we need the loading gauge opened out to be big enough to fit the Eurotunnel shuttle stock Could you imagine the sheer capacity?

 

[ChrisCooper]

For truly comfortable double decker, we need the loading gauge opened out to be big enough to fit the Eurotunnel shuttle stock Could you imagine the sheer capacity?

That's basically what they have in the US then.

 

[jopsuk]

I'm not sure US passenger stock is quite as wide as the Shuttle stock? Possibly not as tall either- all their double deck stock has a "low floor" ground floor- the Amtrak long distance double deckers have a gangway on the upper deck only, the widespread Bombardier bi-level stock has intermediate level vestibules over the bogies. By contrast the shuttle stock has two flat, full height decks over the bogies.

 

[newbie babs]

My daughter went in quite a few when she stayed in Germany, she said you go down in the train before going upwards and she said they had loads of room.
I must say I was quite envious she got the chance.

 

[WestCoast]

My daughter went in quite a few when she stayed in Germany, she said you go down in the train before going upwards and she said they had loads of room.

It depends on the type of stock. Some types of stock you enter on a 'middle level' (very common) and then go up and down. Some you enter at the lowest level and go up, and some you descend and then ascend.

 

[rf_ioliver]

You could come over to Finland, we enter on the lower level, then up to the middle level, then up again to the top deck...the sleeper trains are something to behold...

...mind you helps being Russian gauge (1524mm to be precise).

Ian

 

[Peter Mugridge]

My favourite double deckers are the French Z20500 class in Paris; I like both the look of the exterior and the layout of the interior.

 

[sbt]

Of course until 1971 the UK had two (count em, TWO) Double Decker units. Bulleids 4DD for the Southern.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Ot1sF7&usg=AFQjCNERbsz7qjZUcKL7lbta33GI4tg5FQ

 

[Kingston Flyer]

If we go back a little further, there was the Swansea & Mumbles Railway

 

[Yew]

Of course until 1971 the UK had two (count em, TWO) Double Decker units. Bulleids 4DD for the Southern.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Ot1sF7&usg=AFQjCNERbsz7qjZUcKL7lbta33GI4tg5FQ

A modern version could be quite useful for extra capacity.. im sure most of the design flaws could be ironed out

 

[LexyBoy]

Hmm, I wonder what became of this chap's plans...

That's basically what they have in the US then.

I always think it's funny when I see pictures of commuter trains in the US - they are often only two or three carriages, but double deck! Looks quite amusing when in Europe we think of DD being for high capacity routes. Guess it makes sense over there since clearance isn't an issue.

 

[swt_passenger]

I see that's the thread where I linked to the DfT's detailed report on double deck trains from 2007. Required reading for anyone who thinks it can easily be done within existing UK gauge and carriage length...

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=544415&postcount=40

 

[HSTEd]

I remember seeing pictures of some commuter networks in the US where they have a locomotive with two double deck carriages on, it always looks a bit ridiculous really.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Hmm, I wonder what became of this chap's plans....

I think that's the one taking up the inside back cover on Rail 683?

 

[daikilo]

A modern version could be quite useful for extra capacity.. im sure most of the design flaws could be ironed out

This has been on my mind for a while. What is needed is an absolute minimum of about 14ft clear height above rail surface. In my opinion this could be considered for the following cases:
1) on certain 3rd rail routes where lowering trackbed under bridges or through tunnels is feasible at a cost lower than platform lengthening
2) on new OHLE routes such as GW out of Paddington and HS2 at a minimum impact on build cost
3) as a capacity increase at minimum visible impact solution for bottlenecks such as the Welwyn tunnels.

 

[LexyBoy]

I think that's the one taking up the inside back cover on Rail 683?

Any chance of a summary or scan? I assume we would have heard if it had attracted industry attention, but I'd still be interested as to the proposed solution.

This has been on my mind for a while. What is needed is an absolute minimum of about 14ft clear height above rail surface. In my opinion this could be considered for the following cases:
1) on certain 3rd rail routes where lowering trackbed under bridges or through tunnels is feasible at a cost lower than platform lengthening
2) on new OHLE routes such as GW out of Paddington and HS2 at a minimum impact on build cost
3) as a capacity increase at minimum visible impact solution for bottlenecks such as the Welwyn tunnels.

The usual conclusion on these threads is that the dwell time of DD stock - at least of the type which could conceivably fit on an enhanced UK loading guage - makes it less suitable for commuter services (cue posts pointing out that the RER and plenty of DB commuter services use DD stock).

On your points,
1) The cost of this would be immense, and I've seen suggestions that a tunnel would be a more cost effective solution for capacity increases.
2) There are an awful lot of bridges on the GWML, including the (newly rebuilt) Hangar Lane bridge at Ealing, the A219 bridge, the Heathrow flyover, the M25 (probably alright here) and so on. There is plenty of unused platform space at most GWML stations, so longer trains are an easier solution here (return the concourse at Paddington to its original form if needed).
3) Again, it would only be practical if the trains could use the rest of the line freely, which would require a lot of work in most cases.

 

[Ploughman]

Well if we want to go the full double deck route.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnAY0UFvmmg&feature=related