Extra carriages, 180s for FGW

[jopsuk]

DfT press release for above.
The detail is in the "Notes for Editors"

1. The extra carriages being provided thanks to Government support will see 15 Mark III buffet-car carriages converted to standard class to provide longer trains on services into Bristol, Reading and London Paddington.

seven car sets to 8 car presumably?

2. 25 Class 180 carriages will be leased and will then release suburban rolling stock to enable shorter distance commuter trains to be lengthened into Paddington.

That ends the speculation

3. Six Class 150 carriages will used on services running between Reading and Basingstoke and thereby allow the stock currently on that route to lengthen suburban trains on the Thames Valley into Paddington.

Presumably the two 150/0 three car sets?

4.Two Class 150 carriages will be added to Bristol services allowing two Class 153s to be cascaded onto Truro to Falmouth and Exmouth to Torbay services.

Where's this unit coming from?

5.The total cost of providing these services until the expected end of the First Great Western franchise in April 2013 is £28.9m.
6.The extra carriages will create a total of 2,266 seats in the morning three hour peak and 2,233 seats in the evening three hour peak into and out of London Paddington.
7.Other locations will also benefit including Reading, which will see 1,483 extra seats in the morning peak and 1,731 extra seats in the evening peak , Bristol will see 588 extra seats in the morning peak and 336 extra seats in the evening peak. Truro and Torbay will see an increase of 271 seats in the morning peak and 375 seats in the evening peak.
8.The carriages providing additional capacity to Falmouth, Truro and Torbay are being part funded by Devon and Cornwall County Councils as well as a contribution from the Devon & Cornwall Community Rail Partnership.

Waffle. Note that's £28.9 million cost to the tax payer, not First Group.

 

[g4mby]

The two carriages for the Bristol services is most likely 150209 which will most likely split to form further three car sets. I've seen references elsewhere that 150121/127 could be extended to three car.

 

[Blindtraveler]

and I bet FGW are overjoyed to have 180s back!! Wonder if they had a say in it? Good that some MK3 Buffet vehicles are being converted, are there many more of these lying around?

 

[driver9000]

I'm pleased the 150s have found a use rather than the occasional stored run out twice a week. I'm also pleased the 180s going back to GW is now public knowledge.

Good news for the Great Westerns passengers.

 

[ess]

So is this for the May 2012 timetable? Where will all these trains come from? The ability to lease some before the olympics suggests there are trains sat in sidings doing nothing. Is that right?

 

[LexyBoy]

I'm sure some on here were saying that converting the buffet cars to seating would be too expensive - nice to see they will be used after all.

Has this been in the pipeline for a while or is it intended to soften the blow of cancelling the GWML electrification? [/cynic]

Definitely a need for more suburban stock - overcrowding is chronic - though smarter use of what's there would be wise. Was on a service from Ealing on Sunday and people were being left at the station, so I dread to think what it's like in the peak.

 

[driver9000]

So is this for the May 2012 timetable? Where will all these trains come from? The ability to lease some before the olympics suggests there are trains sat in sidings doing nothing. Is that right?

The 150s are ex-London Midland
The 180s are ex-Northern and 2 sets from store
The buffet cars are presumably GW surplus or loco hauled 3a coaches that will be converted to HST.

As far as I'm aware the DMUs are for December which is why Northerns 180s are being withdrawn on the 2nd rather than the Friday before the timetable changes. The 150/0s and the 150/2 cars were stored a few weeks ago.

 

[pemma]

So is this for the May 2012 timetable? Where will all these trains come from? The ability to lease some before the olympics suggests there are trains sat in sidings doing nothing. Is that right?

2x180s have effectively been in store since they left FGW, although GC have recently taken out a short term loan on one of them.

FGW are very likely to refurbish the 180s before putting them in to service (they issued a tender for such work) and they will need crew training on 180s before they are in passenger service.

The remaining 150s could be put in to service from December, if they aren't it's probably a case of the government won't fund them from December.

 

[DavidBrown]

BBC News

The BBC article mentions extra carriage(s) for Barnstaple which disappointingly the DfT doesn't mention - presumably we will only see the new carriages then if a Paignton-Exmouth train then goes on to Barnstaple?

 

[sonic2009]

So the 150s for Reading - Basingstoke will be 3car units.

150001 and ?

 

[bnm]

and I bet FGW are overjoyed to have 180s back!! Wonder if they had a say in it? Good that some MK3 Buffet vehicles are being converted, are there many more of these lying around?

Has this been in the pipeline for a while or is it intended to soften the blow of cancelling the GWML electrification? [/cynic]

I think FGW most definitely had a say in getting the 180s back. Mark Hopwood mentioned wanting them (a little cryptically) on a local radio interview nearly a year ago. First Group also issued a tender for the refresh of up to 6 Class 180s back in April*. So, yes, been in the pipeline for quite a while and I don't think shuffling the deckchairs like this (with a few tarted up!) would soften the blow in the slightest, should GWML sparky stuff be cancelled. I don't think it will be [/optimist]

*http://www.publictenders.net/tender/100424

 

[4SRKT]

Will any sets come from HT or GC or are there 5 Northern or stored 180s?

 

[sonic2009]

The two carriages for the Bristol services is most likely 150209 which will most likely split to form further three car sets. I've seen references elsewhere that 150121/127 could be extended to three car.

150121/127 were rumoured to be getting the two orphan cars from 150209? in storage the ones without the toilets!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What will GC and HT use?

They will still keep the 180s. These 180s that First will use are the ones that were in storage/used by Northern.

 

[pemma]

What will GC and HT use?

Their 180s. FGW are taking on 5 of the 180s i.e. the ones NXEC took on for Lincoln services but were never used for such work and 3 finished up on loan to Northern.

 

[ainsworth74]

Will any sets come from HT or GC or are there 5 Northern or stored 180s?

The same trains they already do. There are 14 180s, 3 of which are with Northern and 2 are in store the rest are with HT and GC.

 

[swt_passenger]

So the 150s for Reading - Basingstoke will be 3car units.

150001 and ?

150002, as previously discussed in the 150 threads?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

So the 150s for Reading - Basingstoke will be 3car units.

150001 and ?

....150002

 

[Schnellzug]

I love the way Government Press Releases always talk about the number of Carriages, since "2 Class 150 carriages" sounds as if the Government is being so much more generous than just one unit.

 

[Blindtraveler]

know what you mean. Assume the refresh wil be a farly basic retrim, carpets and maybe some plugs and wifi? certainly will be good for overcrouding and using the 150s out of Reading makes sense.

 

[Schnellzug]

..

The remaining 150s could be put in to service from December, if they aren't it's probably a case of the government won't fund them from December.

Why does the Government need to fund them at all? Why does the Government have to stipulate every single thing down to the exact total of 2,266 Seats and expect that everyone will love them for their generosity towards Long Suffering Commuters? The Government doesn't insist on stipulating every single Bus that a bus company acquires or transfers from one subsidiary to another, and then issue Press Releases boasting about the exact number of Seats that they'll offer.

Besides, as anyone who sees FGW regularly will be well aware, this obsession of the Government about the exact number of Carriages and Seats is a bit academic, as they usually put anything on that's to hand; 143, 150, 150+153, 150+153+158, etc etc.

 

[4SRKT]

So Reading > Basingstoke will be operated as a micro-fleet of 2x 3-car 150s (the oldest ones of all) requiring 100% availability? Hmmm.

 

[swt_passenger]

BBC News

The BBC article mentions extra carriage(s) for Barnstaple which disappointingly the DfT doesn't mention - presumably we will only see the new carriages then if a Paignton-Exmouth train then goes on to Barnstaple?

This is from FGW's version of the press release, assumed to be referring to the two extra individual 150 vehicles, ie 150209 split up:

One of the vehicles will be used to strengthen the Truro to Falmouth line, allowing all services on the line to run as two carriage units. Over the day this will add 2,100 seats, and will double capacity on key services including the 0747 Falmouth-Truro.

The other vehicle will strengthen services between Paignton, Exmouth, Exeter and Barnstaple. This adds 270 seats through the morning and evening peaks, and alleviates the capacity issues affecting school children and commuters on the 1554 and 1655 services from Paignton.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=5338

 

[sprinterguy]

seven car sets to 8 car presumably?

You would imagine so. I count eighteen 2+7 FGW high density HST formations. I also count sixteen First Great Western liveried (both the older "barbie" scheme and the current dynamic lines) HST TRFB vehicles off lease. Pure speculation, but I'd imagine that it'll be fifteen of these that are to be converted. There aren't that many mark 3A buffet vehicles remaining off lease, and a lot of those that are are owned by DB.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is from FGW's version of the press release, assumed to be referring to the two extra individual 150 vehicles, ie 150209 split up

Indirectly. The DfT release refers to the two additional 150 vehicles (57209/57212) being utilised in the Bristol area, allowing the release of two class 153s to Falmouth and Exmouth services. This makes sense when stating that this will "allow all services on the line to run as two car units", and that this "will double capacity on key services including the 07:47 Falmouth - Truro". Presumably these services are currently single 153s, and will now be doubled up.

 

[tbtc]

Good news for the Great Westerns passengers

Very.

• Longer HSTs
• Additional Sprinters
• Getting the 180s back

What is odd is that they don't appear to be giving anything up; normally a TOC only gets additional units at the cost of cascading something else somewhere, so that there appears to be benefits around the country.

I've nothing against FGW, and the capacity certainly seems needed on a number of services, but to get such a big boost so late in the "life" of a franchise seems quite different to other TOCs (which only tend to get improvements in the early years).

 

[sprinterguy]

What is odd is that they don't appear to be giving anything up; normally a TOC only gets additional units at the cost of cascading something else somewhere, so that there appears to be benefits around the country.

Shush! The DfT might hear you!

 

[route:oxford]

Any chance of the "new" HST carriages being upgraded to power doors ala Chiltern as part of their refurbishment/rebuild?

 

[pemma]

What is odd is that they don't appear to be giving anything up; normally a TOC only gets additional units at the cost of cascading something else somewhere, so that there appears to be benefits around the country.

It should, however, mean FGW can release more units when the 319s are available for Thames Valley.

 

[sprinterguy]

Any chance of the "new" HST carriages being upgraded to power doors ala Chiltern as part of their refurbishment/rebuild?

It'd surely only make sense to do entire rakes at once? I would have thought, though I don't know the ins and outs of it, that there would be problems with operating the door controls from any other part of the train if there were only one power door fitted vehicle in the set.

Plus, I would think that following GWML electrification in just five years time, only the Laira allocated HST sets (and perhaps only the long distance sets?) will be retained, and these additional carriages will be going into the Old Oak high density sets, which will surely be the first to go when electrification goes live.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Nothing for the Portsmouth-Cardiff line, they've had the same traction on that line since 1991!

 

[tbtc]

Shush! The DfT might hear you!

I know!

Maybe things are starting to change, and the "trickle down" policy of the past (e.g. twenty seven 172s to LM giving EMT four 156s after a complicated cascade) - in future each TOC will get the resources that it needs (without worrying about being seen to "balance" things politically)?