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Fined for dropping a Cig down a Drain..

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Butts

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Just watching the new BBC prog - "That's Britain"

A guy has just been fined for dropping a cigarette butt down a drain....

Offence was "fouling a water culvert" or something like that.

If he denied the charge how are they going to produce the evidence?

As far as I could see the warden or whatever didn't have a camera so it would be his word against the offender.

Plus surely it is better to dispose of it down a drain rather than chuck it into a bin where it may start a fire.

I don't agree with discarding butts on the pavement but down a drain ....for heavens sake :roll:
 
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SS4

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Eh.......

It was dropped down a drain where it would join the other detrius flowing in from the gutter.

Which ends up either in a river, the sea or a treatment plant. Obviously the former two don't need removal (but it is polluting) but the third does, even when filtered
 

caliwag

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Yup...I agree, appalling habit. A warning would have been enough though surely?
 

Butts

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I'd have just run away, laughing.

What a joke.

I know the Council are desperate for money but this is scraping the bottom of the barrel :p

The main problem is lack of provision of bins for butts and other rubbish - people don't tend to discard rubbish in a tidy environment.

No bins = no shame (for some) in lobbing rubbish on the deck.
 

SteveP29

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Which ends up either in a river, the sea or a treatment plant. Obviously the former two don't need removal (but it is polluting) but the third does, even when filtered

And your point is?

All drains are connected to a sewer which runs by gravity or sometimes pump fed to a waste water treatment works. All solid matter (grit, stones, paper, feminine hygiene products are removed via filtering and sedimentation, leaving water polluted by chemicals and human/ animal waste.

The only possibility that this tab end can get into a river is when in times of flooding, the water company is allowed to discharge flow (which are above agreed levels or operating capacity)via the critical sewer overflows into a river. Chances are, your tab end is going to be caught by the treatment works.

Far worse a consequence, is that this solid waste will be incinerated.
 

tony_mac

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Environmental Protection Act 1990. Section 87.
There is no offence committed by just dropping it, only by dropping it and leaving it.
A person is guilty of an offence if he throws down, drops or otherwise deposits any litter in any place to which this section applies and leaves it.


All drains are connected to a sewer which runs by gravity or sometimes pump fed to a waste water treatment works.

It doesn't seem to be accurate to say all.
e.g.

Most gullies in Bournemouth connect through a drain pipe typically 100mm or 150mm in diameter to the main sewer, usually in the road. This can be either a surface water sewer which eventually will discharge into a stream / river / sea or the “combined” sewers where it ends up at the treatment works mixed with all the other sewage for treatment. Occasionally they will drain to a soakaway in the verge.
 
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Skoodle

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You'll often find undercover wardens waiting outside Highbury & Islington station ready to pounce on smokers who drop their butts.
 

Butts

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You'll often find undercover wardens waiting outside Highbury & Islington station ready to pounce on smokers who drop their butts.

Easy money eh .....

Going back to the other side of my original post - if you drop it down a drain and they didn't film it how do they prove it if you contest it ? ie the evidence has "gone down the drain" !!
 

4SRKT

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What are you supposed to do with cigarette butts then? Carry them around in your pocket? I don't think so. I don't smoke (any more) but persecution of smokers has gone waaaay too far already without this additional lunacy. A fag butt is a very small thing, and in the scheme of things not a massive nuisance. But smokers are just fair game: public enemy number one at the moment, so should expect little sympathy when disproportionate measures are taken against them for trivial matters.

Too many (usually thick) people minding too many other people's business. It's the same at airports where baboons in uniform are allowed to take x-rays of people just trying to go about their business.
 

curly42

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Surely the butt would break down into its component parts rather quickly ?
 

red circle

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I have always wondered why people give thier names and adresses to council snoopers in the first place,surely the natural reaction is to tell them to get stuffed and walk off.
 

Mojo

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In the video the lady who dropped the cigarette butt was only a few metres away from a rubbish bin which could have been used to extinguish the cigarette and dispose of it properly.
 

Bungle73

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Easy money eh .....
Well maybe people should dispose of their litter properly.....

What are you supposed to do with cigarette butts then? Carry them around in your pocket?
Yes, why not? It's a lot better idea than littering the place up by selfishly dropping them on the ground.

I don't think so. I don't smoke (any more) but persecution of smokers has gone waaaay too far already without this additional lunacy. A fag butt is a very small thing, and in the scheme of things not a massive nuisance. But smokers are just fair game: public enemy number one at the moment, so should expect little sympathy when disproportionate measures are taken against them for trivial matters.
It all adds up. Maybe you find streets strewn with litter to be acceptable, but I don't. It's about time they cracked down on it.

Too many (usually thick) people minding too many other people's business. It's the same at airports where baboons in uniform are allowed to take x-rays of people just trying to go about their business.
Yeah, fancy trying to protect people from harm....
Surely the butt would break down into its component parts rather quickly ?

No. A cigarette takes 3-10 months to mostly decompose and some say it can take up to as much as twelve years; however, the filter which is made of acetate will NEVER fully break down.
 

4SRKT

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I have always wondered why people give thier names and adresses to council snoopers in the first place,surely the natural reaction is to tell them to get stuffed and walk off.


Certainly what I would do. Why would anyone give their name to anyone who came up to them in the street who wasn't a Police officer?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yeah, fancy trying to protect people from harm....

What harm? You seem to have bought into this nonsense, so perhaps you'd elaborate what makes it OK for trained monkeys to force people into humiliating situations in airports.
 

Old Timer

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What are you supposed to do with cigarette butts then? Carry them around in your pocket? I don't think so. I don't smoke (any more) but persecution of smokers has gone waaaay too far already without this additional lunacy. A fag butt is a very small thing, and in the scheme of things not a massive nuisance. But smokers are just fair game: public enemy number one at the moment, so should expect little sympathy when disproportionate measures are taken against them for trivial matters..
Whilst a cigarette butt may be a "small think" in isolation, you only have to look at areas where smokers now congregate to see what quickly happens.

If a person chooses to smoke then they are responsible for making sure they put their rubbish in a bin or other receptacle. Why should smokers be given rights to drop their detritus wherever they wish ? This is nothing to do with the persecution of smokers but simply a matter that society has started to become fed up with people (such as smokers) who feel they have a God-given right above all others to simply drop whatever litter they have on the streets. There are plenty of surveys that now link behaviour with the environment in which people are, and this includes the negative factors generated by rubbish and litter lying in the streets.

It is just chance that the person was a smoker. I have no doubt the Wardens would have acted the same if it had been a McDonalds burger box, or fish and chip wrappings.

This Country is an untidy place, and I for one welcome action by Councils to tackle this sort of anti-social behaviour. Why should I as a Council tax payer, pay for to clean up after inconsiderates, who may well not even live in my area ?

...Too many (usually thick) people minding too many other people's business. It's the same at airports where baboons in uniform are allowed to take x-rays of people just trying to go about their business.
They don't "take" x-rays, you walk through a machine that scans the body.

May I ask how many times a year you fly, and whether you would prefer a body rub down instead ?

9/11 and 22nd Dec 2001 unfortunately chnaged flying beyond all recognition and we will never get back to where we were. That particular Pandora's Box is well open.

I fly regularly and find the differeing levels of security check a real inconvenience for example the scanners and checks at Schiphol are far greater in some respects than at UK airports, yet Brussels seem less so.

BHX always pulls my wheeled laptop case apart on a regular basis and strips my camera down, whereas Schiphol are happy with things taken out.

Some airports require shoes and belts removed, some dont some prefer one or the other.

As I said it is a pain and a definite inconvenience especially when transferring and moreso if the incoming sector is late, but unfortunately although I have some ideas as to how things could be improved, I cannot see any changes in the near future.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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In the video the lady who dropped the cigarette butt was only a few metres away from a rubbish bin which could have been used to extinguish the cigarette and dispose of it properly.

There was a programme on BBC1 this morning where two enforcement officers were in Central Liverpool and monitoring the dropping of litter of any sort by members of the general public and it was stated that the amount of the fine for dropping a cigarette butt and leaving it on the ground was £75.00 in Liverpool. Everyone they spoke to claimed not to know that an offence had been committed. Has there been enough public information made available either in television or press to make the position clear with regard to litter of any sort....or do people just choose to ignore it?

The matter of smoking in public areas such as bus stations and railway stations, let alone the problems associated with discarded cigarettes butts that are part of this problem, is known to the majority of offenders, who choose not to listen to announcements made over the public address system (as occurs in bus stations operated by TfGM) or to read any posted notices.

Some people whom I have seen spoken to in Stockport bus station about smoking seem to have their own particular personal version of where smoking is allowed and claim "I was not smoking in the bus shelter itself" or "there is no law stopping me smoking anywhere I choose to do so", even when escorted to the notices stating that smoking is not allowed ANYWHERE in the area of the bus station and the bus roadways.
 

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What would happen if you refused to give your details to one of these "wardens"?

Could you be detained or arrested by the police?
 

Old Timer

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What would happen if you refused to give your details to one of these "wardens"?

Could you be detained or arrested by the police?
If you refuse or if you give a false name and address, it is a criminal offence with a penalty of £1000.

If you walk away there is every likelihood that the various CCTV monitors will be used to track you down at which point you can be arrested under the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005.
 

SS4

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We can't look at one butt in isolation though. Imagine if all those butts you see placed properly in the bin were, in fact, on the floor or down a sewer. Now let's say that it was not a fag end but instead a takeaway box which will float since I cannot imagine that, unlike what the OP infers, this person was treated any differently simply because it was a cigarette.

Some groups of smokers appear to have a persecution complex when the reality is often that the toxic effects of second-hand smoke and the unsightly litter need to be moderated. I for one have been glad that I need no longer wash my clothes immediately after going the pub and I'm sure all of us know the gauntlet of the doorway to public places. I do not blame smokers for that since it is the obvious solution

Finally it is not the council's responsibility to provide rubbish bins every 100m which may end up being vandalised by just the kind of person who'd, and I quote,
give thier [sic] names and adresses [sic] to council snoopers in the first place... to tell them to get stuffed and walk off.
 

Smethwickian

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...... it was stated that the amount of the fine for dropping a cigarette butt and leaving it on the ground was £75.00 in Liverpool. Everyone they spoke to claimed not to know that an offence had been committed.

Shocking. How on earth can people claim not to know it's an offence (and, simply, downright antisocial) to drop litter? How badly brought-up are people these days?

Litter is litter. End of.
 

Butts

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What would happen if you refused to give your details to one of these "wardens"?

Could you be detained or arrested by the police?

Also as I mentioned before if you denied the offence and the "Butt" is down a sewer where is the evidence for a prosecution?

It's you word against theirs - thank god for corroboration (at the moment) in the Scottish Legal System.
 

Old Timer

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Also as I mentioned before if you denied the offence and the "Butt" is down a sewer where is the evidence for a prosecution?
The same place it would be if a solitary Police Officer was there.

The legal system requires you to swear on oath before giving evidence and lying in Court is a serious offence.

However I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. Do you think it is OK for people to drop litter and walk away ?
 

Butts

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The same place it would be if a solitary Police Officer was there.

The legal system requires you to swear on oath before giving evidence and lying in Court is a serious offence.

However I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. Do you think it is OK for people to drop litter and walk away ?

Not at all - I am attempting to differentiate between dropping a butt on the pavement or road where it remains an eyesore, or dropping it down down a drain whereupon it disappears from view.
 

AlterEgo

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Not at all - I am attempting to differentiate between dropping a butt on the pavement or road where it remains an eyesore, or dropping it down down a drain whereupon it disappears from view.

I don't understand your point. Are you saying one is okay and the other is not? Confused.
 

Butts

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I don't understand your point. Are you saying one is okay and the other is not? Confused.

The main complaint about discarding butts on the pavement and not in a bin is that it creates a mess which has to be cleared up and is unsightly.

If you drop it down a drain neither apply :p
 
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