Extending a Z1-6 Travelcard to Reading

[The Kevinator]

This is my first post on this forum so apologies in advance if I make any rookie mistakes. Feel free to point any out and I'll try to rectify them.

I have a monthly zone 1-6 travelcard and every Wednesday between about 7-7:30pm I catch the train from London Paddington to Reading (I usually board a fast, non-stopping train). I always purchase a boundary zone 6 to Reading extension from the ticket booth (which is £11.10 for a peak ticket) but the problem is the station is very busy at this time and the queue is very long. I know it's not possible to purchase boundary zone tickets from the ticket machines, but I was wondering if it is possible for me to purchase a West Drayton to Reading ticket from the ticket machine and would this be valid for my journey?

The same goes for the return leg. Am I OK to purchase a Reading to West Drayton ticket?

 

[LexyBoy]

You can only buy tickets with the origin of Paddington from the machines at Paddington. However, if you buy online you'll be able to collect a ticket from West Drayton to Reading from the machine. You could also buy in advance from any staffed NR ticket office if you're passing through at a quiet time.

It's perfectly valid in either direction with no need for the train to stop at West Drayton, as per condition 19(c) of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

Price is £9.90 Off Peak Day Single or £10.00 Off Peak Day Return (valid on any service timed to depart after 0930). £11.10 for an Anytime Day Single. Prices are the same in either direction*. You don't say when you're returning to London - if it's the same day then the Off Peak Day Return is what you want; if the next day you'll need an Anytime Day Single to get to London before 10 (you'll be able to buy this from the machine at Reading of course).

*The restrictions are slightly different - for a WDT-RDG ticket, it's "after 0930"; for RDG-WDT it's "arrive in London after 1000 and afternoon peak trains are barred on the return journey". This shouldn't be a problem as you'll be buying WDT-RDG tickets.

 

[The Kevinator]

Thank you for the speedy reply and the useful idea of booking the ticket in advance online and picking it up from a ticket machine at Paddington. This will save me a lot of time spent queueing (there are queues for the ticket machines too, but they are generally much shorter than for the ticket booths).

So, just to confirm, for my particular journey the West Drayton to/from Reading ticket is essentially identical to a boundary zone ticket?

 

[aleph_0]

If you have a smartphone, there are now quite a few free apps for purchasing train tickets (FGW, XC, FirstScotrail among others all have seemingly identical apps it seems, pick one with the colour scheme you prefer!), so you can also buy the ticket online for collection this way on your way to the station or during the day (you take a slight gamble that the ticket might not be available to collect immediately (the websites say one should leave 2 hours for collection, but experience suggests it's usually almost-instant).

 

[The Kevinator]

You don't say when you're returning to London - if it's the same day then the Off Peak Day Return is what you want; if the next day you'll need an Anytime Day Single to get to London before 10 (you'll be able to buy this from the machine at Reading of course).

I'll be returning the next day and I usually get to Reading station at around 9-9:30am (I seem to always straddle the peak/off-peak boundary when I make this journey).

 

[LexyBoy]

So, just to confirm, for my particular journey the West Drayton to/from Reading ticket is essentially identical to a boundary zone ticket?

In your case, yes, as you hold a Travelcard Season, and there is no ambiguity over the route(s) you may take. I'm not able to check the restriction code for the boundary zone tickets, but for West Drayton>Reading, the Off Peak Day tickets are W1 which are valid on any train after 0930 (so no need to buy an Anytime).

If you buy online you'll be able to collect the tickets after 2 hours (usually less) from any ticket machine capable of doing ToD (ticket on departure) - not just the location you select when booking.

 

[MikeWh]

So, just to confirm, for my particular journey the West Drayton to/from Reading ticket is essentially identical to a boundary zone ticket?

For your journey, yes. Because one of your tickets is a season ticket there is no requirement for the train to stop at the changeover station. If you had a one-day travelcard then you would need the boundary zone ticket to satisfy the other condition for not stopping which is that both tickets are zonal.

 

[LexyBoy]

I'll be returning the next day and I usually get to Reading station at around 9-9:30am (I seem to always straddle the peak/off-peak boundary when I make this journey).

Off Peak for Reading to London tickets takes the same restriction (P7) as Reading to West Drayton, which makes things simple. Valid on any train scheduled to arrive in London after 10 (as you'll know, there's a "first off peak London train" notice on the departures board).

 

[tannedfrog]

Are we saying that afternoon peak restrictions Paddington to Reading, only apply to passengers using return portions rather than outward portions?

Or is it merely a peculiarity of West Drayton tickets?

 

[LexyBoy]

Are we saying that afternoon peak restrictions Paddington to Reading, only apply to passengers using return portions rather than outward portions?

Or is it merely a peculiarity of West Drayton tickets?

Paddington to Reading Off Peak Day Return tickets have identical restrictions on the outward and return portions - restriction J9 - which restricts afternoon peak departures. (Interesting, I'd not noticed this before )

As far as I know all Off Peak Day tickets from local stations between Reading and Paddington with a westbound outward journey have no afternoon peak restrictions (the exception being e.g. from Ealing with tickets intended to be valid via Paddington). This gives no afternoon peak restrictions - which makes sense as you'd not be able to board any of the barred trains from these stations since they are almost all non-stop to Reading (except those which stop at Slough).

For some reason Off Peak Day tickets from Reading to stations towards Paddington have a P7 restriction which does bar the usual afternoon peak fast services. This doesn't seem logical to me, and I'd imagine it's a product of the way stations are "clustered" to ease the process of setting fares.

 

[The Kevinator]

Thank you very much to everyone for your help. This is a great forum.

So, as an off-peak West Drayton to Reading ticket is W1 (which I understand means valid on any train after 09:30) and as my Paddington to Reading journey is always made in the evening, I can always purchase an off-peak ticket (for £9.90)?

If so, this is actually better than an off-peak boundary zone ticket. Whenever I purchase an off-peak boundary zone ticket from the ticket booth I am told the first train I can take is the 19:22 (stopping service). On the occasions I happen to get to the station for around 19:00 I have been purchasing a peak boundary zone 6 extension to Reading for £11.10 and getting the 19:15 (direct service) but I could have saved money by always just booking the West Drayton to Reading ticket in advance.

 

[Paul Kelly]

In NFM09 at least (the latest I have access to) the Boundary Zone 6 to Reading off-peak day single has restriction code B1, which has no afternoon peak restrictions. It seems that the booking office staff at Paddington have been giving you incorrect advice and over-charging you. It's probably best not to bring this to their attention though, as the restrictions on the boundary zone tickets might get changed to bring them into line with those for for tickets originating at Paddington.

 

[LexyBoy]

Yes - if you book online you'll be sold an Off Peak ticket as this is valid on all the trains which it'll show.

Could someone with access to Advantix please post the restriction for a BZ6-Reading Route:Slough CDS/CDR please?

I think the advice you were given is a bit suspect - I don't know for sure whether there are evening peak restrictions on the BZ ticket (I think there are), but any restrictions would be the same as from Paddington which means that stopping services are valid at all times of the afternoon: only fast trains are restricted.

 

[The Kevinator]

Great, in that case from now on I will always just book the West Drayton to Reading ticket in advance

Sorry, I think my description was misleading. I think the time they told me the next stopping train I could take was the 19:22 was because I'd spent so long in the queue that actually was the next train What I should have said was I have been told I can't take the 19:15 fast train using an off-peak boundary zone 6 extension. The first fast train I can take is the 19:30. I've made this journey at least 40 times over the last year and have been told this many times by several different members of staff.

 

[bnm]

Could someone with access to Advantix please post the restriction for a BZ6-Reading Route:Slough CDS/CDR please?

Restriction : B1
OUTWARD TRAVEL
By any train except those
timed to depart Mondays to
Fridays before 0930

RETURN TRAVEL
By any train

 

[LexyBoy]

Restriction : B1
OUTWARD TRAVEL
By any train except those
timed to depart Mondays to
Fridays before 0930

RETURN TRAVEL
By any train

Thanks.

The information given by staff has been wrong then, an Off Peak boundary zone ticket is valid on all afternoon trains.

 

[OwlMan]

Originally Posted by LexyBoy
Could someone with access to Advantix please post the restriction for a BZ6-Reading Route:Slough CDS/CDR please?

Restriction : B1
OUTWARD TRAVEL
By any train except those
timed to depart Mondays to
Fridays before 0930

RETURN TRAVEL
By any train

No

BZ6 - Reading via AScot is B1

Via Slough is W1

Validity
Code
W1
OFF-PEAK DAY TICKETS – FIRST GREAT WESTERN FLOWS
Tickets valid as listed below Mondays to Fridays (by any train on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays)

Outward Travel
Return Travel​

By any train except those timed to depart before 09:30.
By any train except those timed to depart before 09:30.
Notes:
Travel over the Christmas / New Year period: Restrictions are lifted on First Great Western services from 27 December 2011 to 2 January 2012 inclusive.

This entry is managed by:
First Great Western
last updated on:
01/08/11

There could be confusion (depending on what font is being used) as there is also a WI restriction

Validity
Code
WI
OFF-PEAK DAY TICKETS – FIRST GREAT WESTERN FLOWS
Tickets valid as listed below Mondays to Fridays (by any train on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays)

Outward Travel
Return Travel​

By any train except those timed to depart before 0910, and those shown in the table below for boarding at London Paddington and Reading:
By any train except those timed to depart before 0910, and those shown in the table below for boarding at London Paddington and Reading:

London Padd.
depart
Reading
depart
Final Destination
of Service
London Padd.
depart
Reading
depart
Final Destination
of Service
1606
1633​

Penzance

1750
1822​

Worcester Shrub Hill

1615
1641​

Swansea

1800
1827​

Bristol Temple Meads

1630
1657​

Taunton

1803
1833​

Penzance

1636
1704​

Exeter St Davids (FX) / Plymouth (FO)

1815
1841​

Swansea

1645
1711​

Swansea

1822
1850​

Hereford

1649
1720​

Oxford

1830
1856​

Weston-Super-Mare

1700
1726​

Bristol Temple Meads

1833
1902​

Exeter St Davids (FX) / Plymouth (FO)

1703
1732​

Penzance

1845
1911​

Swansea

1715
1741​

Swansea

1847
1918​

Cheltenham Spa

1722
1750​

Hereford

1851
1922​

Oxford

1730
1756​

Taunton

1900
1927​

Bristol Temple Meads

1736
1804​

Paignton

1903
1933​

Plymouth (FX) /
Penzance (FO)

1745
1811​

Carmarthen

1915
1941​

Swansea

1748
1816​

Cheltenham Spa

Occasionally, the departure time or final destination of these services may change, for example due to
engineering work. When this happens, the restriction also applies to the equivalent service.​

09​

NOTES:
Travel over the Christmas / New Year period: Restrictions are lifted on First Great Western services from 27 December 2011 to 2 January 2012 inclusive.09

This entry is managed by:
First Great Western
last updated on:

 

[The Kevinator]

Thank you all for your help. I followed the suggestion of always booking in advance and picking up a West Drayton to Reading ticket from the ticket machines at Paddington and this is working really well. I also now have an annual Dartford to London Zones 1-6 Gold Card and as my journey is in the evening I can use it to get a third off the price, meaning it's only £6.85.

I have a new question about my return journey that I always make the next morning at around 09:00-09:30. According to the FGW website I can purchase an off-peak day single RDG to WDT ticket for £10.40 that is valid starting with the 09:03 RDG to WDT train. However I know that the first off-peak train from Reading to Paddington is the 09:32 as it's the first one that gets in to Paddington after 10:00. So my question is this: can I purchase an off-peak RDG to WDT ticket and use it in conjunction with my season ticket to travel on any direct train from Reading to London Paddington after 09:00 (I'm guessing this is the start time for off-peak trains between RDG and WDT?) rather than having to wait for the 09:32?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

According to NRES the restriction code on the Reading-West Drayton ticket is P7 which is not for travel on trains arriving in London before 1000hrs. The 0903 arrives in Paddington at 1003 so this is fine. The 0908 arrives at Paddington at 0939 and so this is not fine.

 

[The Kevinator]

Thank you very much for your reply.

So, to confirm, even though a RDG to WDT ticket might be considered off-peak for a Reading to West Drayton journey (e.g. the 09:08 train) it isn't necessarily considered off-peak if you're using that ticket as part of a different journey, in my case Reading to Paddington? I guess that makes sense.

 

[calc7]

Thank you very much for your reply.

So, to confirm, even though a RDG to WDT ticket might be considered off-peak for a Reading to West Drayton journey (e.g. the 09:08 train) it isn't necessarily considered off-peak if you're using that ticket as part of a different journey, in my case Reading to Paddington? I guess that makes sense.

Which, correct me if I'm wrong, brings up the interesting question: the NR ticket is valid on that train - and the Z1-6 Oyster valid on any train (minus HEX, HS1) inside the zones and so the through journey is covered?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If the train arrives in London (on the timetable) before 1000hrs mon-fri (not bank holidays) the ticket is not valid on that train, it doesn't matter if it is part of a longer journey or not.

Even if the 0908 train stopped at West Drayton, the fact that it arrives in London before 1000hrs means the ticket is not valid on it. The only reason the ticket is valid on the 0903 is that it arrives in London after 1000 (because it stops everywhere).

Basically the validity of that ticket is determined by the arrival time of the train in London (even though the ticket is not to London).

 

[The Kevinator]

Yeah, that makes sense, thank you.