Having to pay for something you don't need.

[dubscottie]

Why have most of the latest commissions all had sound speakers fitted as standard?

I don't use DCC and have no intention of, so why should I pay for something that i will never use? The Murphy's Models 201 and the Olivias Class 76 are now outside my price range..

Why cant they make them without speakers and anyone that wants one pays extra? (like we have been doing for years!!)

Ever the results of the last poll show there are more DC users than DCC so why bother?

I am currently using DC Control and intend to continue with it 515
I am currently using DCC Control and intend to continue with it 266
I am currently using DC Control and intend to convert to DCC 123

 

[hairyhandedfool]

For the same reason we have to have models with opening cab doors (when the non-functional ones work just fine for me) and rotating cooling fans (which you can't see working most of the time) and close coupling mechanisms (that derail trains on set track curves).

1) Because enough people are willing to pay for it, even if they don't use it (an so extra profit is made)

2) It entices people into a new market (where they can make more sales) which takes you back to point 1.

 

[Alan1310]

20 years ago people were saying the same thing about computers just wait till dcc comes down in price
and its clear to anyone dcc is far far more advanced than dc
if you look at hornbys railroad range that might cater for your needs
but if you want up to date tooling and a real replica then you will need to go dcc to get the best out of these loco's

i currently cant afford a dcc controller or to chip all my locos/units of wich some will need 3 but i will not be complaining about progress
and as for set track some newer models will not go round anything lower than a 3rd radius curve because they are not build for train set sales

 

[hairyhandedfool]

In most cases Alan, I would agree but the two cases named by dubscottie are locos that are not commonly available. There is no option of the railroad range or 'lower standard' models, you buy them or you don't. (actually the 201 was done by Lima, but they don't appear that often secondhand and when they do they command very high prices - higher than the new model!)

 

[alanf]

I have some friends in the truck and van business and recently they did a job for one of the utility companies. They had to remove all the radios as the vans would have cost more delivered without them. It could be that everything is just fitted on the production lines like the radios were and its more time consuming not to fit them.

Alan

 

[sprinterguy]

20 years ago people were saying the same thing about computers just wait till dcc comes down in price
and its clear to anyone dcc is far far more advanced than dc
if you look at hornbys railroad range that might cater for your needs
but if you want up to date tooling and a real replica then you will need to go dcc to get the best out of these loco's

i currently cant afford a dcc controller or to chip all my locos/units of wich some will need 3 but i will not be complaining about progress
and as for set track some newer models will not go round anything lower than a 3rd radius curve because they are not build for train set sales

I'm sure there's plenty of people, like myself and hairyhandedfool, who want the level of detail from the new models, which I am willing to pay more for than the basic, churn 'em out by the thousand £35 Lima models, but really don't have any interest in sound and all the other little gimmicks like rotating cooling fans that don't really add a huge amount to the model in terms of realism (a good weathering job can make a model look more like the "real thing" than many of those features) but seem to add a vast sum to the retail price.

 

[dubscottie]

I want the extra detail etc and don't mind paying for it..

However a Class 76 is now going to set me back about €200 for one! (I had planned on getting 2.. Not now)

If they took the speaker out it would prob only cost €140ish which I would not mind paying as it looks a superb model.

Likewise I paid around the €100 mark for each Class 141/181 model I bought which was grand, but €170 for a Class 201 is taking the p...!

What I am saying is that shops or whoever commissions models should have a DC version without all the DCC bits.. They might find they sell more.. (I know the sales of the 201's are not great. Maybe the price??)

(Prices in euro as I am in Ireland.. €200 is alot of money here at the moment!)

 

[Roylang]

I want the extra detail etc and don't mind paying for it..

However a Class 76 is now going to set me back about €200 for one! (I had planned on getting 2.. Not now)

If they took the speaker out it would prob only cost €140ish which I would not mind paying as it looks a superb model.

Likewise I paid around the €100 mark for each Class 141/181 model I bought which was grand, but €170 for a Class 201 is taking the p...!

What I am saying is that shops or whoever commissions models should have a DC version without all the DCC bits.. They might find they sell more.. (I know the sales of the 201's are not great. Maybe the price??)

(Prices in euro as I am in Ireland.. €200 is alot of money here at the moment!)

I find it hard to believe that the cost of the speaker, bought in the quanities that they will be purchasing will be €60. A reasonable bass reflex speaker bought as an after market part is only €10 so they are probably only paying €7-8 max. Also, you may well find it is cheaper for Olivia's etc. to have all the chassis made as standard rather than specify two versions.

Roy

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I find it hard to believe that the cost of the speaker, bought in the quanities that they will be purchasing will be €60. A reasonable bass reflex speaker bought as an after market part is only €10 so they are probably only paying €7-8 max....

The price of a loksound 3.5 sound decoder (with speaker) pre-fitted into a Hornby Princess class locomotive, according to the Hornby shop, is £134.74p (£266.49p (R2990XS)-£133.75p(R3014)), for a class 56/60 it is £100 and for a class 08 it is £120, but the cost of the decoder (with speaker) pretty much anywhere on the web is approximately £85.

So you see, the amount you are paying for the extra components (regardless of what they are) that you don't need being fitted, is higher than the cost of the components themselves.

Even if the cost of the speaker is a fifth of the extra cost of the model, the speaker is useless without something to tell it what sound to produce. Presumably there will be something fitted for that purpose (or the cost is unwarranted and fewer people will be prepared to pay for it) which will cost money, and whilst sound on DC is possible, I don't know many that would want it like that as it is so limited in what it can do.

 

[Roylang]

The price of a loksound 3.5 sound decoder (with speaker) pre-fitted into a Hornby Princess class locomotive, according to the Hornby shop, is £134.74p (£266.49p (R2990XS)-£133.75p(R3014)), for a class 56/60 it is £100 and for a class 08 it is £120, but the cost of the decoder (with speaker) pretty much anywhere on the web is approximately £85.

So you see, the amount you are paying for the extra components (regardless of what they are) that you don't need being fitted, is higher than the cost of the components themselves.

Even if the cost of the speaker is a fifth of the extra cost of the model, the speaker is useless without something to tell it what sound to produce. Presumably there will be something fitted for that purpose (or the cost is unwarranted and fewer people will be prepared to pay for it) which will cost money, and whilst sound on DC is possible, I don't know many that would want it like that as it is so limited in what it can do.

I don't argue that the speaker is useless, just that the extra cost of including the speaker is not going to be the €60 quoted.

With regards to your prices quoted, the extra cost that Hornby etc. charge is not just going to be for the decoder, but also for the cost of developing the sound files.

Look at what is charges by SW Digital (£98.60), Howes (£117.50), Olivia's (£100.00) etc. for a programmed sound decoder and they are closer to the price differential that you quote. Indeed, for the 56/60 and 08 Hornby are cheaper than going to Howes.

Perhaps Hornby feel that for the Princess they will sell less and, therefore, have to recover the sound file costs over smaller number? Today's market is a tough one, they will not be charging more for no good reason as they will know that will cost them sales.

Roy

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Well in anycase, without the sounds the speaker is an unnecessary piece of equipment for some and, as you point out, the sound files will cost extra (to the speaker) which some people don't want, not to mention the storage of the sounds. It is money for something that is not wanted with no option for less.

They could have a bigger market for the model if fitting sound is done after manufacture. The cost of fitting would obviously be passed to those who want it, but I rather suspect the way it has been done is to make sure the sound products are purchased from them (rather than the modeller getting the basic model and fitting their own for less).

Some N gauge models have a bracket to fit a speaker if required which I doubt adds much (if any) cost to the model.

 

[Heinz57]

I agree with the O/P

If a model is being made DCC it should be also made avalible DC, for all us non-digital folk with our switches and isolating sections.

The Bachmann Freightliner 66 is now only avalible in DCC sound. Over £150 a peice. And is a loco that I realy want, but will I pay that much for all those features that I will never use? No I won't. In a way I actualy find it unfair, with models being made exclusivley DCC many, many people have to unfortinatly miss out.

Come on Bachmann and Hornby, play the game!

 

[Roylang]

I agree with the O/P

If a model is being made DCC it should be also made avalible DC, for all us non-digital folk with our switches and isolating sections.

The Bachmann Freightliner 66 is now only avalible in DCC sound. Over £150 a peice. And is a loco that I realy want, but will I pay that much for all those features that I will never use? No I won't. In a way I actualy find it unfair, with models being made exclusivley DCC many, many people have to unfortinatly miss out.

Come on Bachmann and Hornby, play the game!

RRP of the '66 is £202.25 - mind boggling and surely hard for anybody to justify these days.

But to clarify, the locos that the OP questionned are DC not DCC. They just have to be pre-equipped with a speaker.

Roy

 

[PeterPetrelle]

RRP of the '66 is £202.25 - mind boggling and surely hard for anybody to justify these days.

But to clarify, the locos that the OP questionned are DC not DCC. They just have to be pre-equipped with a speaker.

Roy

I agree with you,that's so annoying. And they really need to have that speaker badly.