Cable theft - 8 cases a day - BBC news

[Kingston Flyer]

Not fully sure if this should be here, or Infrastructure, but:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15634949

As much as anything, I would like your opinion of the following two statements:

there was evidence thieves were impersonating engineering staff

Could this really be true?

A senior police officer said it was seen as a "low risk, high return" crime

Come on, is possible death 'low risk'?

 

[michael769]

there was evidence thieves were impersonating engineering staff


Could this really be true?

Probably - wearing a hi-vis immediately makes one look like you are meant to be there in the eyes of the general public.

A senior police officer said it was seen as a "low risk, high return" crime

Come on, is possible death 'low risk'?

Criminals are not the smartest people in the world, so I doubt they really understand the risks. And to be fair compared to the number of cable thefts the reported injuries and fatalities are almost non-existent.

In any event I suspect they were referring to the risk of getting caught!

 

[O L Leigh]

This is why I keep railing against the problem of railway issue equipment and uniform ending up on eBay. It's not particularly collectable but it can be very useful.

The other thing that people incorrectly assume is that criminals are stupid. Apart from a small number of chancers that do get fried/clobbered by a train, most know precisely where and when to go to reduce the chances of detection and any incidents and what cable it is safe for them to remove.

O L Leigh

 

[Kingston Flyer]

I can assure you that I was at no point saying that criminals are stupid.

In fact there is even a point of stating the obvious in the article:

It is a very market-driven crime. It is almost as if the criminals are looking at the market themselves.

 

[asylumxl]

Doesn't half make the thieves sound like bankers.

 

[jopsuk]

This is why I keep railing against the problem of railway issue equipment and uniform ending up on eBay. It's not particularly collectable but it can be very useful.

Though to "pass" as rail maintainence staff at a passing glance to most people, all you really need is hi-vis. To most of the public, any colour will do, but orange is readily available anyway, so your organised and smart criminal (after all, they're going to need vans and multiple people) will be togged up in full orange- doesnt matter that it has no logos.

 

[Minilad]

Doesn't half make the thieves sound like bankers.

Shouldn't you have spelt that last word with a W

 

[Hydro]

Shouldn't you have spelt that last word with a W

Is bankwrs Welsh or something then?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Though to "pass" as rail maintainence staff at a passing glance to most people, all you really need is hi-vis. To most of the public, any colour will do, but orange is readily available anyway, so your organised and smart criminal (after all, they're going to need vans and multiple people) will be togged up in full orange- doesn't matter that it has no logos.

Many outlets sell "workwear" these days, with all types of industrial and security outerwear readily available from hi-vis vests to fluorescent full length outer coats with padded linings and epaulette holders.

 

[O L Leigh]

I can assure you that I was at no point saying that criminals are stupid.

It was a general statement aimed at no-one in particular.

O L Leigh

 

[WatcherZero]

Senior Network Rail Manager has told a Select Committee that theres a significant problem with insider dealing, NR staff and contractors are tipping off the thieves where signalling works will take place.

 

[wintonian]

Senior Network Rail Manager has told a Select Committee that theres a significant problem with insider dealing, NR staff and contractors are tipping off the thieves where signalling works will take place.

Thus also keeping them in work if Network Rail ever decided to think about redundancies?

 

[eastwestdivide]

Usual shortage of hard statistics in the original article: the headline 8 cases a day is scaled back to "between six and eight attempted thefts a day" later in the article.
Any ideas on the actual rate of successful thefts? Not from the article, or from the Network Rail press release at (long address)
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...S-ON-CABLE-THEFT-190c/SearchCategoryID-2.aspx

 

[KBD1]

This is why I keep railing against the problem of railway issue equipment and uniform ending up on eBay. It's not particularly collectable but it can be very useful.

The other thing that people incorrectly assume is that criminals are stupid. Apart from a small number of chancers that do get fried/clobbered by a train, most know precisely where and when to go to reduce the chances of detection and any incidents and what cable it is safe for them to remove.

O L Leigh

I am sure any railway Hi-Viz vest can be bought in any work wear store like Armco. I have seen them in the local army & navy stores, or our ethnic freinds.
Agree not all criminals are stupid, they are mostly savvy in what their intentions are & the dangers.

 

[The Planner]

Also the fact they go armed now aswell, I have heard stories from project managers on re-signalling schemes where staff who catch thieves are getting shot at or threatened with guns, air rifles or replicas, would you take the chance or let them run off ??

 

[merlodlliw]

The sooner cashless payment for scrap occurs the better.

Although the money can be paid into a dummy account, it will stop a lot of thieving.


Bob

 

[O L Leigh]

That will depend on the scrap dealers themselves. It is the fact that dealers will pay cash with no questions asked that drives the theft now. If every dealer was scrupulous and demanded to see licences and paid by some other more legitimate and traceable means it would make it much much harder for the thieves to off-load their ill-gotten gains. No matter what you do there will be loopholes to be exploited and it is the dealers themselves that need to be the focus.

O L Leigh

 

[wintonian]

I feel like venting my frustration at the pratts who managed to nick 20 cables from Whinchfield on Monday night.

Mind you NR did also find a hairline crack outside Waterloo to help things along a bit.

Anyway apparently according to the BBC article some current figures are:

Network Rail said 1,464 trains have had to be cancelled across the UK due to cable theft since April.

This is compared to 1,430 from April 2010 to March 2011, and 1,345 in 2009/2010.

South West Trains delayed after cable theft

 

[Harlesden]

I have never seen signaling cable close up, but would it not be possible to have "Network Rail" or something similar printed along the whole length of the cable covering, making it useless to any unauthorized person. The long term advantages would surely outweigh the initial expense.

 

[wintonian]

Trouble is I suspect one the reasons that cash payments are controversial is due the the scrap dealers turning a blind eye.

Sent from my Motorola Xoom

 

[Jonny]

I have never seen signaling cable close up, but would it not be possible to have "Network Rail" or something similar printed along the whole length of the cable covering, making it useless to any unauthorized person. The long term advantages would surely outweigh the initial expense.

According to this, they (or some of them) have taken to burning the insulation off in order to conceal the origins...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The sooner cashless payment for scrap occurs the better.

Although the money can be paid into a dummy account, it will stop a lot of thieving.


Bob

Or, worse than a dummy account, use the name of an innocent third party :eek:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Trouble is I suspect one the reasons that cash payments are controversial is due the the scrap dealers turning a blind eye.

Possibly, but it's also an excuse to come down on cash payments in general. Call me paranoid for pointing it out, but there seems to be a "war" on cash payments in general.

 

[NSEFAN]

Getting rid of cash payments for scrap would add one more obstacle for theives and dodgy scrappies to overcome. In the meantime things only get harder for the honest traders.

 

[142094]

According to this, they (or some of them) have taken to burning the insulation off in order to conceal the origins...

They've been doing that for years - beforehand it was easier to get at the copper by burning the outer coating off (remember it well, smell of burning rubber on a train that was delayed near Hartlepool due to cable theft).

 

[wintonian]

For any one whose interested the Metal Theft (Prevention) Bill is number 29 on tomorrows provisional order of business.