Skelton Junction

pmgarvey · 14 Dec 2011

Quick one, but Skelton Jn is a junction of the mid Cheshire line and what? Theres a single track joining it which isn't overgrown so is presumably still in use but I can't think of anywhere for it to go (and I'm on a train, and mobile internet is too spotty for Google maps).

Also did I see a signal box at Deansgate Jn or am I imagining things again? If yes how far down the line does it control? Thanks

RailUK Forums

HSTEd · 14 Dec 2011

If Ive got the coordinates of Skelton Junction correct (provided by Wikipedia) that single track continues for a while but then just stops and the trackbed joins existing railway trackage between Glazebrook and Irlam stations (on the line to warrington)

LNW-GW Joint · 14 Dec 2011

pmgarvey said:
Quick one, but Skelton Jn is a junction of the mid Cheshire line and what? Theres a single track joining it which isn't overgrown so is presumably still in use but I can't think of anywhere for it to go (and I'm on a train, and mobile internet is too spotty for Google maps).

Also did I see a signal box at Deansgate Jn or am I imagining things again? If yes how far down the line does it control? Thanks

Skelton Jn was a 3-way junction on the CLC.
First route was Stockport (LNW and CLC) to Warrington Arpley-Ditton-Garston (LNWR), with a station at Broadheath. There was a link from Timperley to Broadheath as well completing a triangle.
This line had a sharply curved spur to the MSJ&A line at Deansgate Jn (Navigation Rd) leading to the mid-Cheshire lne (CLC) at Altrincham.
Later, the "main" line was extended to Glazebrook on the Manchester-Liverpool CLC line and hosted direct St Pancras-Liverpool Central trains.
At one time there might even have been a link to the MSJ&A towards Manchester via Timperley.

Timperley/Skelton Jn-Broadheath-Warrington Arpley has gone completely (now the Trans-Pennine Way).
Skelton-Glazebrook lost its passenger trains and was cut back to Partington (the ship canal bridge was damaged) but stayed open for freight (oil/chemicals traffic).
It is now disused but there have been various proposals to reopen it to a new freight terminal.
The Stockport-Skelton Jn line only reopened to passengers when the MSJ&A route was taken over by Metrolink.
Hence today's tortuous link between the old main line and Navigation Road, all that's left of a very complicated layout in the area.

To answer the second bit, Deansgate Jn controls 2 miles eastwards towards Northenden Jn, and about 3 miles south to just beyond Ashley (ie all the Altrincham area), including the Metrolink lines from the point where its two lines become single north of Navigation Road.

pemma · 14 Dec 2011

LNW-GW Joint said:
Hence today's tortuous link between the old main line and Navigation Road, all that's left of a very complicated layout in the area.

Which even makes Sprinters squeal a bit. A Pacer does 3 minutes of squealing at over 100 dB when going around it.

Xenophon PCDGS · 14 Dec 2011

There were two historical railway companies in that area which may shed some light on the matter:-

The Warrington and Altrincham Junction Railway.

The Stockport, Timperley and Altrincham Junction Railway

There does seem to be some quite convoluted trackwork around the area of Skelton Junction and Deansgate Junction in the old drawings of which I hold large sized copies in my archives.

With regard to the Warrington and Altrincham Junction Railway, a link with Stockport was achieved when the Stockport, Timperley and Altrincham Junction Railway opened its line on 1st February 1866 from Broadheath Junction on the Warrington and Stockport Railway to Skelton Junction on the newly opened line from Deansgate Junction to Stockport.

CosherB · 15 Dec 2011

LNW-GW Joint said:
At one time there might even have been a link to the MSJ&A towards Manchester via Timperley.

There was indeed such a link, it was taken out very early on (before WW2). I used to watch steam goods trains here in the 60s; lots of grimy 8Fs, 9Fs, Black 5s etc as well as small tank engines (Stanier class 2s and suchlike) on Manchester Central to Warrington Bank Quay passeneger trains via Broadheath. Sometimes there was a 'push/pull' 2-carriage set with diminutive tank engine on this route.

Underneath, Manchester to Altrincham, was the MSJ&A electrified line (1500V DC Overhead), which continued un-electrified as the Mid Cheshire CLC line from Altrincham to Chester. The Mid Cheshire LIne is still in use, as someone has said via the extended route through Stockport, while the MSJ&A is now part of the Metrolink tram system. Time to re-instate the MSJ&A as heavy rail, methinks!

Both the CLC and the Warrington lines from Skelton closed because of the requirement to spend money on the high level bridges over the Manchester Ship Canal. Makes you wonder that if the MSC hadn't been built would these lines have survived?

Bevan Price · 15 Dec 2011

Both the CLC and the Warrington lines from Skelton closed because of the requirement to spend money on the high level bridges over the Manchester Ship Canal. Makes you wonder that if the MSC hadn't been built would these lines have survived?[/QUOTE said:
Also, following the closure of Woodhead, and the decline of coal traffic from Yorkshire, the Skelton - Lymm - Warrington line had lost most of its freight traffic, so it might have closed anyway.

Xenophon PCDGS · 15 Dec 2011

I was on a business visit, very many years ago, in the area where these junctions are situated, as office and factory units had been constructed there. I was able to see, at close quarters, how good was the workmanship was on the viaducts carrying the line over the MSJ & A, which had been constructed with good quality stonework being used. A credit to the early line workmanship.

Sox · 15 Dec 2011

Similar discussion (some photos):

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30909

CosherB · 16 Dec 2011

Also, one of two electrical substations was as Skelton (the other at Old Trafford) which took 11Kv AC from Longford power station and converted it to 1500V DC for the line.

apk55 · 17 Dec 2011

I have fond memories of Skelton junction as a kid watching trains in the last years of steam, and hearing the clank of lose coupled freight, as I only lived a short distance away.
Found some pictures in my parents photo album/ slide box. The person in the pictures is me and were taken in early and mid 60!

CosherB · 17 Dec 2011

Thanks for the pics, APK. Brought back memories for me!

Samtron2000 · 19 Dec 2011

I live overlooking Skelton Jnc and have always lived in the area. I remember as a kid the tall signal box that controlled it and playing in it's associated air raid shelter (there used to be an unlocked gate from newstead terrace straight onto the tracks!!!) What remains is only used a siding up to a make shift NR compound at the point where the lymm line split off, which does see a fair bit of use!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

apk55 said:
View attachment 9224

Is this taken on the land that became Hawthorn Avenue?

Xenophon PCDGS · 19 Dec 2011

The area of railway land that lies in-between Hawthorn Avenue on one side of the railway and Newstead Terrace on the other side carried running lines to West Timperley station and to Broadheath station, plus the chord line towards Navigation Road and I think three stabling sidings. It certainly was quite a complex line system.

Samtron2000 · 19 Dec 2011

Yes, there was a small marshalling yard including a turntable.

croydonite · 5 Mar 2012

There have been requests for photographs of Broadheath station. I have found an old postcard view of James Horley's coal (and coke - remember that?) yard at the back of the station which shows a gentleman on the raised platform waiting for a train to Manchester. Richards' Atlantic works is visible in the background.

Best wishes to all ...

kermit · 5 Mar 2012

Samtron2000 said:
I live overlooking Skelton Jnc and have always lived in the area. I remember as a kid the tall signal box that controlled it and playing in it's associated air raid shelter (there used to be an unlocked gate from newstead terrace straight onto the tracks!!!) What remains is only used a siding up to a make shift NR compound at the point where the lymm line split off, which does see a fair bit of use!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is this taken on the land that became Hawthorn Avenue?

I think it might be in one of what are now back gardens in Berisford close, but yes, my guess puts it pretty close to there. I think I can remember the area from the 60s as a big field, with a large broken down wooden building in the middle. And Sylvan Service centre (sorry, no capital "c"s on my keyboard today it seems) had a car lift to take vehicles from Park Road level to workshop level!

9K43 · 5 Mar 2012

This time in 1985, we road learned Warrington, via Stockport in a DMU from HM.
We went over this route for 2 weeks, then it was closed.
When we actually worked this route to Fidlers Ferry Power station(FF) with MGR's from West Yorkshire.
The closing of this route mad the task of getting to FF a major problem for these MGR,s as we had to RR the train at Warrington, then in the football sidings .
Each RR took about an hour as Warrington was very busy.
If we used the Stockport route, there would be no RR at Warrington, as the train would by pass Warrington Yards both on arrival and departure from FF.saving me working a lot of overtime.
Carlisle Men brought MGR trains into Warrington yards, but they had 2 class 20's and a brake van in the rear.
This made propelling through the yards a piece of cake on arrival and departure to FF.
Some time later on, they introduced a 350 to draw the trains down to the Latchford Branch thereby saving a lot of time.

LE Greys · 5 Mar 2012

Odd, I thought Skelton Junction was just north of York where the Harrogate line leaves the ECML (the new name for Poppleton Junction).

LNW-GW Joint · 6 Mar 2012

LE Greys said:
Odd, I thought Skelton Junction was just north of York where the Harrogate line leaves the ECML (the new name for Poppleton Junction).

The one near Timperley/Altrincham is still in the Sectional Appendix and Quail maps.
Skelton is a good old Norse name (though I can't find the reason for the name near Altrincham - none of the local features have that name).
According to Wiki there are seven Skeltons in northern England (not including this one), all but one in old Yorkshire.

Xenophon PCDGS · 7 Mar 2012

LNW-GW Joint said:
The one near Timperley/Altrincham is still in the Sectional Appendix and Quail maps.
Skelton is a good old Norse name (though I can't find the reason for the name near Altrincham - none of the local features have that name).
According to Wiki there are seven Skeltons in northern England (not including this one), all but one in old Yorkshire.

There are three settlements, Rixton, Flixton and Urmston, not so very far removed from the area in question, that all have long historical and ethnic connections.

apk55 · 7 Mar 2012

I think Skelton junction was named after a local landowner, a mister Peter Skelton who lived nearby in Pickering Lodge. (A nearby park is called Pickering lodge)

CosherB · 8 Mar 2012

It's amazing that this junction was so busy in the late 60s and has pretty much gone now. I remember it was a great place to see the last of steam on BR; 8Fs, 9Fs, Black Fives.. and lots more on coal, oil, and stone trains.

On the Altrincham line were the DC electrics of course, but also DMUs for Chester and the occasional steam push-pull train Manchester Central to Warrington Bank Quay via Timperley and Broadheath.

Now Partingtom power station has gone, so no more coal traffic, and Stanlow seems to ship all oil products by road. And of course the high bridges over the Ship Canal didn't get the maintenance they needed so had to be shut so that was the end of Skelton.

Very sad.

Crossover · 8 Mar 2012

I was looking in a Rail Atlas last night and came across Skelton Junction. So, would I be right in thinking that it isn't really much of a junction anymore?

Also, is there any way for NR trains to use the Metrolobk metals or not? (naturally, the other way round wouldn't work anyway!)

CosherB · 8 Mar 2012

It's not a junction at all now. The old Manchester to Altincham line is Metro until just north of Skelton, where it goes to single line as far as Navigation Road station. From there it runs to its terminus at Altrichham's bay platforms (there may be some double Metro track between Navigation Road and Altrincham - I can't remember).

The NR lines come in from Stockport and swing north before turning south as a single line to run adjacent to the Metro single line to Navigation road. The NR line continues to Altrincham's through platforms then onwards to Chester via Knutsford.

At Altrincham station both Metro and NR lines are double track again.

There is no interconnection between the Metro lines and the NR lines as far as I know, and certainly no inter-running.

Mcr Warrior · 8 Mar 2012

Captain Speaking said:
There is no interconnection between the Metro lines and the NR lines as far as I know, and certainly no inter-running.

Believe that there is a little-used and locked out of use interconnection between the National Rail line (just north of Platform 3 at Altrincham) and the southbound Metrolink line that runs into Platform 2.

On Google maps, you can see this link, just North of the pedestrian overbridge in Altrincham town centre, or alternatively to the East of Grosvenor Road.

pmgarvey · 8 Mar 2012

Captain Speaking said:
It's not a junction at all now. The old Manchester to Altincham line is Metro until just north of Skelton, where it goes to single line as far as Navigation Road station. From there it runs to its terminus at Altrichham's bay platforms (there may be some double Metro track between Navigation Road and Altrincham - I can't remember).

There is, it's used for the tram coming out of Altrincham to get passed by the one coming from Navigation Road.

Greybeard33 · 9 Mar 2012

Captain Speaking said:
It's not a junction at all now.

Hi, my first post after lurking awhile.

I commute daily through Skelton Junction and it is still a junction, where the now-disused single track freight branch to Partington (previously the CLC line to Glazebrook) leaves the main line to Altrincham as the latter diverges round the chord to meet the Metrolink line from Sale at Deansgate Junction (which is now only a junction inasmuch as the double track lines of each system join to become single track for the section south to Navigation Road). I believe the first part of the Partington branch may still be occasionally used as a siding by Network Rail maintenance trains, although I have never seen it occupied.

There is also a rarely-used, but still operational, Down Goods loop just east of Skelton Junction, with a diamond crossover from the Up Main line. Another, trailing, crossover enables trains from the branch to access the Up Main. The signal controlling exit from the branch has dual "feathers" for the Up Main and Down Goods roads. So the pointwork and signalling in this area is still quite complex!

kermit · 9 Mar 2012

So do NR need to carry out the occasional "proving run" on the Partington line, as illustrated with a photo of a train on the Folkestone branch in a recent Railway Herald?

Samtron2000 · 9 Mar 2012

Captain Speaking said:
It's not a junction at all now. The old Manchester to Altincham line is Metro until just north of Skelton, where it goes to single line as far as Navigation Road station. From there it runs to its terminus at Altrichham's bay platforms (there may be some double Metro track between Navigation Road and Altrincham - I can't remember).

The NR lines come in from Stockport and swing north before turning south as a single line to run adjacent to the Metro single line to Navigation road. The NR line continues to Altrincham's through platforms then onwards to Chester via Knutsford.

At Altrincham station both Metro and NR lines are double track again.

There is no interconnection between the Metro lines and the NR lines as far as I know, and certainly no inter-running.

You are describing Deansgate Jct, not Skelton!!!

Skelton Junction

Member

RailUK Forums

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

New Member

Attachments

Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member