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What happens if a train driver gets a nosebleed or needs the toilet?
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It is just left to common sense, I've never seen a TOC advise me when to go!
I always have a cup of tea on the go when I'm driving and just look through my diagrams before I start work that day to see when I get time to use the loo. As people have said in an 'emergancy' I find a red signal etc to use the ballast or an empty paper cofee cup i also know guys who carry empty oasis bottles around with them. I often walk the non platform side down the train when changing ends at Epsom downs on a non toilet train.
To be honest though, a non stop run from say London to York is about 2 hours. I think you have a problem if you can't go 2 hours without needing the loo. Once at York they can nip back to the loo if needed, if delayed then they will probably encounter red signals and can use that to their advantage. I believe that the Newcastle men who work the Edinburgh to Inverness east coast Tain get a 'cab environment break' en route, so a longer station stop of about 7 mins to use the facilities.
I always have a cup of tea on the go when I'm driving and just look through my diagrams before I start work that day to see when I get time to use the loo. As people have said in an 'emergancy' I find a red signal etc to use the ballast or an empty paper cofee cup i also know guys who carry empty oasis bottles around with them. I often walk the non platform side down the train when changing ends at Epsom downs on a non toilet train.
To be honest though, a non stop run from say London to York is about 2 hours. I think you have a problem if you can't go 2 hours without needing the loo. Once at York they can nip back to the loo if needed, if delayed then they will probably encounter red signals and can use that to their advantage. I believe that the Newcastle men who work the Edinburgh to Inverness east coast Tain get a 'cab environment break' en route, so a longer station stop of about 7 mins to use the facilities.
ryan125hst
Established Member
Out of interest, how long does a train driver normally spend in his cab continuously. I know a shift can last 10 hours or more, but how long will he normally be expected to drive without a scheduled toilet/tea/rest break?
I live on the ECML, so lets take that as an example. An East Coast train from Kings Cross to Edinburgh, where do the drivers change? What about on shorter journeys, such as to Leeds or Lincoln? What about the Highland Chieftain to Inverness?
I live on the ECML, so lets take that as an example. An East Coast train from Kings Cross to Edinburgh, where do the drivers change? What about on shorter journeys, such as to Leeds or Lincoln? What about the Highland Chieftain to Inverness?
Really? I recall a Regional Driver Manager based in the South West of a major TOC once give his Driver Manager's a "project" to resolve the occasional delay's caused by the drivers of a certain large depot who, occasionally, required an"urgent PNB" on their three hour plus runs to London, thereby putting delay's onto his budget. I kid you not. You can imagine the scheme's that his DM's (who then were experienced railmen and ex drivers) came up with.
As for east coast many drivers change at Newcastle. London men don't go further north than that. As for a Inverness train a Newcastle driver works one from Newcastle to Edinburgh the has a break. He then relieves the chieften at Edinburgh and works it to Inverness with an extended station stop en route to act as a cab break. He then stays in a hotel over night and travels to Aberdeen the next day to work the afternoon service back from Aberdeen to Edinburgh then has a break before returning to newcastle.
As for other operators generally you can drive continuously (that means less than 10minutes turnaround) for about 4-5 hours depending on the specific TOC agreement with unions. Throughout the working day a driver must also get either 1 30 min break or 2 20 min breaks. There are some jobs where you can have a 9.5hour day with 4.5 hours constant driving (less than 10min turn arounds), 30 mins break and then another 4.5 hours driving. There are also other jobs with more breaks than driving on them!
hairyhandedfool
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Officially, many ticket offices can't even have a radio!
Dieseldriver
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Have been caught relieving myself out of the cab door of my loco on a possession by a member of the public!... 
Grantham
Member
Distraction...there is too much wrapping up in cotton wool going on!
Radios are legal in motor cars, which are pretty easy to crash compared to a train. I bet music would be less distracting than busting for a leak.
the sniper
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The thing is, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but I imagine that freight train driving over here is probably closer to suburban train driving than it is your typical Australian freight train driving. I don't know if you have them over there, but here you have audio warnings relating to signalling (AWS), with a horn being sounded for red or yellow signals and chime or bell for a green signal. The former have to be acknowledged quickly or the train stops. Signals here can often be quite close together on our congested mainline routes, freight trains can often be slowed down, stopped or have to jump in and out of loops and on or off slow/relief lines. As such, drivers over here have to be on the ball pretty much all of the time.
Jedipickles
Member
I can't remember the exact dates, but I remember a SE 375 been taken out of service at Dover because the driver was sick and it had apparently "plastered" the cab and then that same driver had a nosebleed in the same 375 when it re-entered service and again made a bit of a mess.
O L Leigh
Established Member
I tend to manage without the pressing need to go for a widdle. Mind you, it can get pretty close at times.
My usual problem is getting ready for a the long drag down to Cambridge on a slow train. I'll stand on the platform at Liv St and feel fine so jump in the cab without taking my ease. But by the time I'm rolling through Hackney Downs I can be overcome by the need to pee.
It's further to Cambridge than you might think.
O L Leigh
My usual problem is getting ready for a the long drag down to Cambridge on a slow train. I'll stand on the platform at Liv St and feel fine so jump in the cab without taking my ease. But by the time I'm rolling through Hackney Downs I can be overcome by the need to pee.
It's further to Cambridge than you might think.
O L Leigh
Cherry_Picker
Established Member
Always have an empty bottle of Lucozade in your bag. You never know when it might come in handy.
Grantham
Member
Oh please, I'm not saying don't be on the ball! I agree there are long stretches of intensive and difficult running, staying on the ball is compulsory. I think the "distraction" word gets a little overused, or there is too much cotton wool treatment.
I can assure you, I run through the Sydney metropolitain area, which has an intensive suburban service and a great many signals, with some pretty high speed boards, although I mostly only drive trains that are permitted to run up to 50mph. There are areas where signals are 300 yards apart from each other, and I can assure you that not being on the ball would result in running a 4,500t coal train into a double deck train with 2,000 people on board at 50mph. If these photos work, they are near the middle of a stretch of about twenty miles of very close signalling, most between 300 and 600 yards apart. It's common to be put aside or held at places for our path between passenger trains.
There are other places less signalled of course, there is one section I cross only a hundred and fifty miles from Sydney that has a stretch of over forty miles without seeing a signal. Not that you get any rest, the curves and grades are crazier than the mad woman's breakfast, bit like a rollercoaster.
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rmt-driver
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An EMPTY bottle of Lucozade? Surely a empty Lucozade bottle..
the sniper
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I can assure you, I run through the Sydney metropolitain area, which has an intensive suburban service and a great many signals, with some pretty high speed boards, although I mostly only drive trains that are permitted to run up to 50mph. There are areas where signals are 300 yards apart from each other, and I can assure you that not being on the ball would result in running a 4,500t coal train into a double deck train with 2,000 people on board at 50mph. If these photos work, they are near the middle of a stretch of about twenty miles of very close signalling, most between 300 and 600 yards apart. It's common to be put aside or held at places for our path between passenger trains.
There are other places less signalled of course, there is one section I cross only a hundred and fifty miles from Sydney that has a stretch of over forty miles without seeing a signal. Not that you get any rest, the curves and grades are crazier than the mad woman's breakfast, bit like a rollercoaster.
Thanks for the correction Grantham. I think I envisaged you just rolling across the Outback for hours and hours...
Next you'll be telling me that Neighbours and Home and Away aren't accurate portrayals of your lifestyle in Australia!
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I was going to say - have you not noticed the number of bottles with a strange green/yellow liquid hanging about near signal posts
1 pint milk and coke bottles seem to be the favourite "vessel".
michael769
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Radios are legal in motor cars, which are pretty easy to crash compared to a train. I bet music would be less distracting than busting for a leak.
Cars Radios allowed - crash often
Trains radios not allowed - do not crash often.
Trains guided by rails, protected by myriad safety systems and driven by professionals with months of training - do not crash often.
Cars essentially unguided, few safety systems and driven by people with as little as a couple of weeks training - crash often.
There's a little more to it than just a lack of radios in trains
daniel3982
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Interesting topic... What about tram drivers? Someone on a run from Altrincham to Bury or Halfway to Malin Bridge would be in trouble if caught short as you can see into the cab from the body of the train, and it's all built up so no peeing on the street!
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Was easier in steam days. Just let it go over the side.
D1009
Established Member
Doesn't sound wise in 3rd rail areas.
TheMysticEgg
Member
My ex-RAF helicopter pilot maths teacher once told us a story of a service up in Scotland quite a few years ago (tried googling it but nothing came back), when a driver took a leak out of the cab door while the train was doing a decent speed. Anyway, the driver fell out the door in the process! Iirc the train crashed and my teacher was one of the pilots taking helis over to rescue stricken passengers. Would really like to find out more on this, does it ring any bells to anyone?
Cherry_Picker
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I think he was pulling your leg mate.
michael769
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Agreed. The dead man's handle (or modern alternative) would have brought the train to a very abrupt stop!
As for tram drivers they face the same problem as local bus drivers - you just have to learn to hold for the duration of the shift (or at least until the break), though I did see one local driver stop outside a house and rush into it once! Presumably he was fortunate he (or someone he knew) happened to live on his route!
EDIT: This discussion has reminded me of this recent incident: http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sco...-the-train-drivers-stuck-in-the-lavatory.html
TheMysticEgg
Member
His stories are usually pretty serious and the way he told us was very believable. You've reminded me actually, (it was quite a while ago) that he was holding the dead man's handle at the time and after falling out the train did indeed make an emergency stop, but the RAF were called out due to the remoteness of the location.
Oasis bottles or coffee/fast-food cups do the trick too.
driver9000
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When I drove buses in London there were staff toilets dotted about London for the convenience of bus drivers, conductors, taxi drivers etc. There was usually one at the terminus too. We could also have access to those in garages of other operators and to those in tube stations. Outside London I would either nip into a public lavatory or wait until I reached a main bus station.
In regard to a train driver falling from the train while peeing. I was reading a scanned news report from the 1970s on line recently. The driver had been drinking and went to pee out of the door of the locomotive - pressing the DSD holdover button would prevent a brake application or before Speed sensing equipment was fitted moving the reverser to EO/Neutral would also prevent an application. The story goes he survived the fall and was found sitting on the embankment and subsequently jailed for 3 weeks. Can I find the link now I need it? Can I heck!!
Smudger105e
Member
Both these options cause problems. Drivers regularly complian that the cabs smell. Too much urine in the washer bottle can have this effect. We have to drain the washer bottles, treat them with bleach and refill. Class 60s and 67s have no facility to drain the washer bottles, so they have to be flushed through with water for ages
And trust me, drivers do not just wee in the washer bottles, and someone has to remove floaters 
And on 66s, drivers seem to use the brake frame in No1 end as a suitable toilet place, and the pipes for the sanding gear are starting to rot away where they go through the floor...
Most of the posters on here seem to assume that all drivers are male, I guess that female drivers have slightly different problems with being caught short...
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