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Am I standing to close to the track?

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TheSlash

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0 - 100mph - 4 feet
100mph - 125mph - 6 feet 6 inches
125mph or over - 10 feet

The above is a the official distances taught on PTS on how far away from the track to stand regards the line speed
Because a driver is told not to do something, it doesn't mean he or she will obey.
When working red zone, the COSS will use a risk minimisation form to calculate the warning time needed for the work party. After calculating the total time needed, they will then convert this time into a distance using a chart.
Now say for example i wanted 30 seconds warning time, i'd need 1/4 mile sighting distance. I start with a site lookout who stands close to the working party. If he can't see the whole 1/4 mile, then i appoint a distant lookout who walks to a position further away from the work party, normally to see round bends etc. You can have a total of 3 lookouts looking in 1 direction, after that, you take measures to reduce the sighting distance, normally by imposing a temporary speed restriction
The point of this? You can't count looking into a tunnel as sighting distance, so people will never be relying on a driver 'blowing up' as part of their warning. You can't enter a tunnel under traffic either, unless its fitted with TOWS, so staff inside the tunnel aren't reliant on the driver either.
So drivers no longer need to blow up for tunnels. The reason they defy this is because they haven't had all the above explained to them, they are simply told "Don't blow up for tunnels"

Jamie, it's quite safe to use a tripod provided it doesn't cause obstruction and isn't positioned in a dangerous position with regard to passing trains
 
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Dave A

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LOL. LOL. LOL :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I can't stop laughing at that last trains hoot :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry, back to business. It doesn't look like your too near. The first one driver OK, clearly. The second sounded like a friendly hoot. The third is hard to tell and are you sure it was the train and not a car or something?

At my local, New Southgate, I was testing my camera for about 45 mins on the trains which speed at between 90mph & 125mph through there usually, I think, but I wasn't using a tripod and was just behind the yellow line and I didn't get told anything or hooted at, so I doubt these were warning hoots.

Don't let it put you of your excellent work :D

David
 

Craig

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TheSlash said:
0 - 100mph - 4 feet
100mph - 125mph - 6 feet 6 inches
125mph or over - 10 feet

The above is a the official distances taught on PTS on how far away from the track to stand regards the line speed
I've just been informed by PTS competent Double Trigger that the correct distance for 125mph or more is 9 feet (2.75 metres) and the correct term is position of safety.

I would expect you of all people to know this being in such a safety critical role... Perhaps you should read up on your rules before you get fired ;)

Module G2 Section 3.2 FYI:
http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/docushare/dsweb/Get/Rail-4896/G2.pdf
 
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Having just watched the Hatton video, i would suggest that you were too close to the edge, especially judging by the 'type' of horn used by the second cl168.

I would suggest you stand much further back and then zoom a little. I will tell you now, as i have had a near miss while driving, it aint nice.

Tripods: is really a no no, they take up too much room and can cause hazards to other passengers. If you are asked to not use a tripod, i would remind you that you should comply with this.

In any case tripods are not needed in a railway environment, there are plenty of ledges and areas where you can balance your camera(s).
 

TheSlash

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Craig, have you ever stood 4 feet away from a freightliner doing 75mph? Standing 10 feet away from a 125 mph line is over safe and not a disciplinary offence, more commendable
 
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Craig said:
TheSlash said:
0 - 100mph - 4 feet
100mph - 125mph - 6 feet 6 inches
125mph or over - 10 feet

The above is a the official distances taught on PTS on how far away from the track to stand regards the line speed
I've just been informed by PTS competent Double Trigger that the correct distance for 125mph or more is 9 feet (2.75 metres) and the correct term is position of safety.

I would expect you of all people to know this being in such a safety critical role... Perhaps you should read up on your rules before you get fired ;)

Module G2 Section 3.2 FYI:
http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/docushare/dsweb/Get/Rail-4896/G2.pdf

I agre with Craig / Double Trigger, the distance is in fact 9 feet (2.75m) not 10 feet
 

TheSlash

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Met Apprentice said:
Craig said:
TheSlash said:
0 - 100mph - 4 feet
100mph - 125mph - 6 feet 6 inches
125mph or over - 10 feet

The above is a the official distances taught on PTS on how far away from the track to stand regards the line speed
I've just been informed by PTS competent Double Trigger that the correct distance for 125mph or more is 9 feet (2.75 metres) and the correct term is position of safety.

I would expect you of all people to know this being in such a safety critical role... Perhaps you should read up on your rules before you get fired ;)

Module G2 Section 3.2 FYI:
http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/docushare/dsweb/Get/Rail-4896/G2.pdf

I agre with Craig / Double Trigger, the distance is in fact 9 feet (2.75m) not 10 feet
You can agree with whoever you like but as you well know the distances are minimum, the recommendation being as far away as possible
 
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TheSlash said:
You can agree with whoever you like but as you well know the distances are minimum, the recommendation being as far away as possible

Thats an excuse. The fact of the matter is, it is 9 foot, not 10 foot. End of.

What are the four requirements if you plan to go on or near the lineside?
 

Craig

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TheSlash said:
Craig, have you ever stood 4 feet away from a freightliner doing 75mph? Standing 10 feet away from a 125 mph line is over safe and not a disciplinary offence, more commendable
Yes; and 6ft 6inches away from an 87 doing about 100 on the WCML too. Not that it matters though, the fact is that the official distance for 125mph+ is 9 feet. 10 feet is not the correct distance and should not be being taught on PTS courses.

Out of interest what are the current requirements for going on or near the line side? The official, not commendable version ;)
 
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TheSlash said:
You can't enter a tunnel under traffic either, unless its fitted with TOWS, so staff inside the tunnel aren't reliant on the driver either.
So drivers no longer need to blow up for tunnels. The reason they defy this is because they haven't had all the above explained to them, they are simply told "Don't blow up for tunnels"

You cannot tell a driver "Don't blow up for tunnels". You can advise them that they do not have to, but you cannot give a straight directive. It is up to the driver if they feel it neccesary to whistle at any given moment when they are in control of their train.
 

TheSlash

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Take you're pick;

Rimini
COSS
Lookout{s}
Sentinel card with appropriate in date compotencies
Minimum full HV vest - shoulder vests are only acceptable for authorised walking routes
Rimini
Safety Footwear
Hardhat
Sectional Appendix {locating the worksite and best access point}
You'd need such details as the number of the nearest hospital and the controlling signal box but these are included on the Rimini
 
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TheSlash said:
Take you're pick;

Rimini
COSS
Lookout{s}
Sentinel card with appropriate in date compotencies
Minimum full HV vest - shoulder vests are only acceptable for authorised walking routes
Rimini
Safety Footwear
Hardhat
Sectional Appendix {locating the worksite and best access point}
You'd need such details as the number of the nearest hospital and the controlling signal box but these are included on the Rimini

HV clothing yes, however the rest are incorrect. Those are items required to sign on for duty, I believe we asked of the 4 requirements in regards to PTS whilst on or near the line?

You must not go on or near the line unless it is absolutely
necessary because of your duties and:

• you have been authorised to do so

• you are aware of the hazards to be expected at the location

• you know what arrangements have been made for your safety
while you are on or near the line, or you have been trained and
certificated as competent to make these arrangements for
yourself.

You are responsible for your own safety when on or near the
line. You must make sure you understand when and where
you can go on or near the line.

If your duties require you to go on or near the line, you must wear
clean high-visibility clothing of an approved type in the correct way,
and meet at least one of the following conditions:

• You have been passed as competent in Personal Track Safety
(PTS).

• You are using an authorised walking route that you have
authority to use and you have been made aware of any safety
issues involved.

• You have been issued with a Track Visitor’s Permit and you are
accompanied by a controller of site safety (COSS) and you
have been briefed about the safety arrangements.

• You are under the direct supervision of a COSS who is giving
you formal training in PTS and you have received a briefing.

"Blow up" is used to request the driver to create a brake, normally after a brake continuity test. So why would the driver be undertaking this just because of a tunnel?
 

TheSlash

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What part would you like me to expand upon as i believe the question to be easy to answer for those who deal with Rimini's at least once a day.
 

jd

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Come on guys, you're arguing over a foot or two? Is this really nescessary? It sounds like it's getting a bit personal to me.
 
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TheSlash said:
What part would you like me to expand upon as i believe the question to be easy to answer for those who deal with Rimini's at least once a day.

There are people out there that dont know what a RIMINI is, so please do explain.
 

TheSlash

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Met Apprentice said:
TheSlash said:
What part would you like me to expand upon as i believe the question to be easy to answer for those who deal with Rimini's at least once a day.

There are people out there that dont know what a RIMINI is, so please do explain.
But you have been asking me Rimini based questions so surely you know what one is?
 

jd

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RIMINI is RIsk MINImisation AFAIK. There you go, MA. Problem solved.
 

TheSlash

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I think you'll find RIMINI is an officially recognised abbreviation used on Network Rail standing for Risk Minimilisation and you shouldn't go on the track unless you have signed one, except during an emergency {emergency protection of the line etc or emergency track repairs}
On a Rimini you will find all the information about line speed, total warning time, nearest hospital and its phone number, phone numbers for the controlling signal box, hazards to be aware of {Slips trips and falls, juice rail etc}, walking route to and from the job, method statement of how the work will be carried out, who the COSS is, the names of any of lookouts being used, the position of safety and which line you will be working on, and much more
You read the Rimini then sign your name and write down the number of your sentinel card. Once everyone has signed the Rimini, the COSS will then give their briefing
Basically everything Motor Alternator wanted to know
 

jonb

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Met Apprentice said:
Having just watched the Hatton video, i would suggest that you were too close to the edge, especially judging by the 'type' of horn used by the second cl168.

I would suggest you stand much further back and then zoom a little. I will tell you now, as i have had a near miss while driving, it aint nice.

Tripods: is really a no no, they take up too much room and can cause hazards to other passengers. If you are asked to not use a tripod, i would remind you that you should comply with this.

In any case tripods are not needed in a railway environment, there are plenty of ledges and areas where you can balance your camera(s).

I have never heard so much rubbish in my life. Tripods ARE allowed as stated before in the National Rail Guidelines, so this suggests you havent read these before posting your side of the argument.

For example: Twice a week myself and a friend venture out onto the railways in London, he uses a Tripod and has filmed at Hornsey, Stratford, West Hampstead and Harringay and have had no trouble about it. We always make sure we are behind the yellow line and have no trouble at all.
 
T

Tom

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I knew this thread was a bit of a problem, and surprise surprise, look whats happened.

As per my comments on page 2, *click*
 
T

Tom

Guest
And adding to that, obviously Met Apprentice hasn't read the photography guidelines.

If you use common sense, the platform was not really busy was it?

Matt has a full right to use a tripod, as you do too (unless you/Matt are distinctly told NOT to use a tripod). I hope this clears things up.
 
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