Any news about the Chiltern Power-door Mk3s yet?

Dampflok · 11 May 2012

As I understand it, another attempt is likely to be made today, 11th May 2012, to collect the first set of power door coaches, possibly due away from Doncaster at 17:00, no idea of headcode or any further times...

Usual disclaimers apply as well!

Cheers, Geoff

RailUK Forums

D1009 · 11 May 2012

Dampflok said:
As I understand it, another attempt is likely to be made today, 11th May 2012, to collect the first set of power door coaches, possibly due away from Doncaster at 17:00, no idea of headcode or any further times...

Usual disclaimers apply as well!

Cheers, Geoff

There's a path in Trust

5Z00 1722 Doncaster Wabtec to Wembley Yard via the ECML, Finsbury Park 20.14, Kings Cross Incline, doing a turning manoeuvre in the Willesden area arriving Wembley Yard 21.39. Reported passing Doncaster station at 17.35.

Dampflok · 11 May 2012

Thanks for that D1009, I heard that the train departed Wabtec at around 17:20, though I had no idea of headcode or loco, or whether DVT is leading southwards, only other vague time I had was around 19:30 in the Hitchin area...

Sadly, will not be able to get out to see it myself :cry:

Cheers, Geoff

D1009 · 11 May 2012

Dampflok said:
Thanks for that D1009, I heard that the train departed Wabtec at around 17:20, though I had no idea of headcode or loco, or whether DVT is leading southwards, only other vague time I had was around 19:30 in the Hitchin area...

Sadly, will not be able to get out to see it myself :cry:

Cheers, Geoff

No probs, there was no consist in when I checked, but 67014 was shown at Doncaster TMD all week so I expect that's working it.

Aictos · 11 May 2012

Passed Stevenage at 19:50 at full pelt - looked quite good in ex works condition

Was unable to get a loco number to confirm if 67014 was on it but it certainly was in ex WSMR livery.

Rhydgaled · 11 May 2012

Someone has taken some photos. NOTE: The second link is a link to the user's photostream, so might not show the 67 pics after a while.

Helvellyn · 11 May 2012

AlexS said:
I'd suggest that as that's the buffet car emergency egress door, which isn't used at all on Mk3 coaches except in an emergency, and therefore was never fitted with CDL in the first place (the only way to open it is to pull the egress handle as there isn't even a door handle provided) they aren't bothering to replace it, which seems sensible enough to me.

I don't get why this door is painted in a contrasting colour when it's not for public use!

jopsuk · 11 May 2012

I like this shot from the linked stream
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Helvellyn said:
I don't get why this door is painted in a contrasting colour when it's not for public use!

Indeed, this is an odd thing to do. On all the other Mark 3 and Mark 4 catering vehicles with contrast doors, the non-public ones are body-coloured.

scottie · 11 May 2012

10272 to 10274 should be 10208, 10230, 10255.
12606 to 12609 should be 12048, 12038, 12069, 12014.
12613 is 12059, 12615 is 12173.
12612, 12614, 12616, 12617, 12618 & 12619 unconfirmed yet but from 12117, 12127, 12145, 12169 ,12174 ,12175.

RPM · 12 May 2012

The word is that the set will start two weeks of ghost running between London and Birmingham from Monday. Not sure of the exact timings but it is booked to leave Wembley around 10.00 and return arond 16.00 each day.

anthony263 · 12 May 2012

I just had this email which has some timings starting from Monday.

5R00 Wembley LMD v Birmingham Moor St M-F 14/05/12-25/05/12

Wembley LMD dep 1059
Wembley Stadium arr 1100 dep 1101
Sudbury & Harrow Rd arr 1104 dep 1105
Sudbury Hill Harrow arr 1107 dep 1109
Northolt Park arr 1111 dep 1112
South Ruislip arr 1115 dep 1130
Denham arr 1135 dep 1135
Denham Golf Club arr 1136 dep 1138
Seer Green +Jordans arr 1143 dep 1145
Beaconsfield arr 1147 dep 1147
Saunderton arr 1157 dep 1158
Princes Risborough arr 1203 dep 1210
Haddenham +Thame Parkway arr 1215 dep 1217
Warwick arr 1301 dep 1302
Hatton arr 1307 dep 1309
Widney Manor arr 1318 dep 1319
Solihull arr 1322 dep 1323
Birmingham Moor St arr 1336

Returns as:-

5H02 1424 Birmingham Moor St v Wembley LMD

Birmingham Moor St dep 1424
Dorridge Up Goods Loop arr 1434 dep 1443
Leamington Spa arr 1455

NIMBUS · 12 May 2012

I have to wonder what the point of these ECS runs is. Surely the critical point is whether the doors work when used repeatedly in service - I doubt that Chiltern are going to have staff on the test runs opening and closing the doors all along the route, to give them a good hammering?

Surely it would have been better to run the set in traffic as an additional relief service so that the door mechanisms can get a bit of use - or get some volunteer staff or enthusiasts to ride the train and heavily test the doors? I'd volunteer to help out in a flash.

Better that any defects are identified and ironed out in a pseudo-service environment than to run the trains up and down each day and then discover a fault with the door mechanisms when they enter service and start to get heavy usage and abuse?

SprinterMan · 12 May 2012

Is the remaining slam door on the buffet car like that on both sides?
I'm sure I have boarded a train through it at Marylebone before.
Adam :P

cj_1985 · 12 May 2012

NIMBUS said:
I have to wonder what the point of these ECS runs is. Surely the critical point is whether the doors work when used repeatedly in service - I doubt that Chiltern are going to have staff on the test runs opening and closing the doors all along the route, to give them a good hammering?

Surely it would have been better to run the set in traffic as an additional relief service so that the door mechanisms can get a bit of use - or get some volunteer staff or enthusiasts to ride the train and heavily test the doors? I'd volunteer to help out in a flash.

Better that any defects are identified and ironed out in a pseudo-service environment than to run the trains up and down each day and then discover a fault with the door mechanisms when they enter service and start to get heavy usage and abuse?

To clarify... Wabtec fitted the equitment to an OOS mk3 to test the doors/equitment*...

now, i can't remember if it was someone posting the details online, or if it was something i read in one of the magazines... but AIUI the "test rig" was running for several months, with the door opening, and closing, and opening and closing over and over... to make sure it worked etc

do you honestly think that any operator, or ROSCO (if one had been involved in this case) would commit to such a large scale expenditure and upgrade project based on an untested concept...

* That was posted in Modern Railways in mid 2011

Aictos · 12 May 2012

NIMBUS said:
I have to wonder what the point of these ECS runs is. Surely the critical point is whether the doors work when used repeatedly in service - I doubt that Chiltern are going to have staff on the test runs opening and closing the doors all along the route, to give them a good hammering?

Surely it would have been better to run the set in traffic as an additional relief service so that the door mechanisms can get a bit of use - or get some volunteer staff or enthusiasts to ride the train and heavily test the doors? I'd volunteer to help out in a flash.

Better that any defects are identified and ironed out in a pseudo-service environment than to run the trains up and down each day and then discover a fault with the door mechanisms when they enter service and start to get heavy usage and abuse?

When South Eastern were introducing the then new Class 395s on High Speed 1, they spent a week running them in mock passenger service with staff from Network Rail and staff from all TOCs serving St Pancras International to act in the role as passengers.

The trains only ran a shuttle between St Pancras International and Ebbsfleet International all day except for the very last service which ran from St Pancras International to Ashford International.

I don't how much mileage I did that week but I did quite a lot of trips on these trials.

NIMBUS · 12 May 2012

cj_1985 said:
do you honestly think that any operator, or ROSCO (if one had been involved in this case) would commit to such a large scale expenditure and upgrade project based on an untested concept...

From years of experience, yes.

Opening and closing doors in a test environment, in the same way each time, is not the same as the general grief and abuse that the general public will put the equipment through (holding them open, forcing their way through etc.). These things need to be destruction tested.

Cherry_Picker · 13 May 2012

NIMBUS said:
I have to wonder what the point of these ECS runs is. Surely the critical point is whether the doors work when used repeatedly in service - I doubt that Chiltern are going to have staff on the test runs opening and closing the doors all along the route, to give them a good hammering?

Surely it would have been better to run the set in traffic as an additional relief service so that the door mechanisms can get a bit of use - or get some volunteer staff or enthusiasts to ride the train and heavily test the doors? I'd volunteer to help out in a flash.

Better that any defects are identified and ironed out in a pseudo-service environment than to run the trains up and down each day and then discover a fault with the door mechanisms when they enter service and start to get heavy usage and abuse?

The doors have been opened and closed umpteen times now. They are getting opened and closed on the test run as far as I am aware too. I'm not sure who is going to act as the guard on the test runs though.

jopsuk · 13 May 2012

surely part of the purpose of the runs is to make sure the crew are entirely familarised with the new equipment?

cj_1985 · 13 May 2012

NIMBUS said:
From years of experience, yes.

Opening and closing doors in a test environment, in the same way each time, is not the same as the general grief and abuse that the general public will put the equipment through (holding them open, forcing their way through etc.). These things need to be destruction tested.

and in your opinion, that means using spotters/enthusiasts/bashers desperate to be one of the first to travel in refurshished/rebuilt stock, and claim "mileage" ? , in the place of the testing that has been done with the doors opening and closing more or less constantly for weeks and months :roll:

NIMBUS · 14 May 2012

cj_1985 said:
and in your opinion, that means using spotters/enthusiasts/bashers desperate to be one of the first to travel in refurshished/rebuilt stock, and claim "mileage" ? , in the place of the testing that has been done with the doors opening and closing more or less constantly for weeks and months :roll:

Don't be so bloody ridiculous - who mentioned cranks? Grow up.

cj_1985 · 14 May 2012

NIMBUS said:
Don't be so bloody ridiculous - who mentioned cranks? Grow up.

Technically, you did...

NIMBUS said:
Surely it would have been better to run the set in traffic as an additional relief service so that the door mechanisms can get a bit of use - or get some volunteer staff or enthusiasts to ride the train and heavily test the doors? I'd volunteer to help out in a flash.

YorkshireBear · 15 May 2012

cj_1985 said:
Technically, you did...

I think the phrased is 'owned'

Now the first set has been completed, how long do we think each set will now take? The first always takes the longest. Is there a finish date already set for the project?

And just it out there, the chiltern livery is fantastic on the mk3s i think it looks really smart.

Dampflok · 15 May 2012

Well, having seen the first few runs of the test trains at Haddenham station, Princes Risborough station (only in the up direction, the down train stops in the through road, so no doors can be opened!) and Saunderton station, there seems to be plenty of onboard staff to test the doors at each stop, opening and closing them several times at each stop. So far, hopefully, things are going OK, but I suppose it's early days yet.

For those so minded, it does look like the droplight window in the emergency doors in the buffet car can still be opened, as one of my photos shows a member of staff leaning out of this window as the train departs from Saunderton (photo still to be processed).

Some photos now on my site in the May 2012 collection, which can be found here:

http://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/May-2012/22831126_ZKDCtK

Sample photo here:

First run of 5R00 at Haddenham, 14th May 2012

Cheers, Geoff

Cherry_Picker · 15 May 2012

Okay. Now I guess I know who is acting as the guard on the test runs! :P

MCR247 · 15 May 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoyZhufEOuI

RobShipway · 16 May 2012

MCR247 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoyZhufEOuI

Nice video, thank you for sharing.

The changes to the doors to be automatic look good.

MCR247 · 16 May 2012

Should have said, its not mine!

CC 72100 · 16 May 2012

Looking very smart indeed. I wonder how many passangers will think it's a brand new train now that it's got 'normal' power doors? :roll:

Mojo · 16 May 2012

Once in normal passenger service will they be running DOO south of Banbury (like the 165s/168s that stop there), or will there still be a need for a guard all the way to Marylebone?

Pumbaa · 16 May 2012

Well as the current 'silver' trains have a Guard/TM all the way through, I expect these will also, especially as I doubt there is room/ability to fit a door control panel into the 67. the DVT may be a little easier!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So saying, the doors do look a little flimsy. When they open and stop moving, there is quite a lot of movement.

Still, fantastic development and about time slam doors were full scale taken off the network.

Any news about the Chiltern Power-door Mk3s yet?

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