• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Any news about the Chiltern Power-door Mk3s yet?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dampflok

Member
Joined
22 Sep 2009
Messages
126
Location
Haddenham, Bucks
The testing of the new set continued last week after the train was turned during the weekend so that the loco was on the north end, presumably to even out the testing of doors on each side of the train. The return run from BMO though had some of the intermediate stops at smaller stations cut out, so I'm not sure how that squared with testing the doors, and timings were slightly altered as a result.

67014 was replaced by 67013 for the final day's testing on Friday 25th May 2012 and the set was due to be turned again at the end of this run so that the loco would be on the south end again. This part of the run was cancelled and the set remains with the loco on the north end.

Chiltern Railways very kindly invited me to travel on the final up run from Moor Street as far as Haddenham & Thame Parkway, along with members of the railway press, and it was interesting to see and hear the new plug doors in action. The revamped vestibules in the coaches give a much more spacious feel as the train is boarded and the whole atmosphere is light and airy (perhaps helped by travelling on a gloriously sunny day!).

There are now some shots on my site of the doors and interiors during the test runs over the last couple of weeks and yesterday's final test run (more still to come), they can be found in the May 2012 collection here:

http://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/May-2012/22831126_ZKDCtK

Sample shot here:

GMPI12079InteriorTSOL126055H02-L.jpg


Much has been made of the remaining old style slam door adjacent to the galley - as stated above, to replace this would have meant moving the whole galley set-up and this was just not viable. There are no handles on the doors but they can be opened in an emergency using a red lever behind a glass panel above the doors (this is alarmed!). The droplights still work but are locked shut, though staff can open them with a carriage key...

The formation of the train is DVT (at present 82305) - GFW (Galley First Wheelchair) 10271, ex-WSMR 10236 - TSOL (Trailer Standard Open Lavatory) 12605, ex-West Coast FO 11040 - TSO 12604, ex WSMR 12131 - TSOL 12603, ex-West Coast 12053 -TSO 12602, ex-WSMR 12072 - Class 67 (at present 67013).

The TSOLs only have lavatories at one end, so perhaps there might be a shortage of facilities if the products of the galley are too liberally consumed!

As the train ended up at Wembley LMD, I understand there will be an ECS move, possibly on Sunday evening, to get the set to BMO for Monday morning when it should work the 06:19 from BMO to MYB on the 28th...

Usual disclaimers apply!

Cheers, Geoff
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
16,734
Wait, do the TSOs not have toilets then? What sort of plan is it to have an intercity train with only two toilets (or is there one in the first class carriage as well?)

Suddenly this upgrade does not seem like such a good idea for HST sets. Or is the TSOL referring only to the presence of disabled toilets instead of any kind of toilet?
 

Rhydgaled

Established Member
Joined
25 Nov 2010
Messages
4,568
Wait, do the TSOs not have toilets then? What sort of plan is it to have an intercity train with only two toilets (or is there one in the first class carriage as well?)

Suddenly this upgrade does not seem like such a good idea for HST sets. Or is the TSOL referring only to the presence of disabled toilets instead of any kind of toilet?
There only being two TSOLs in the set is probably down to the length of the train, and Chiltern wanting such large vestibles. If you did a whole 2+8 IC125 I would guess you could probably have smaller vestibles and have a toilet in more of the coaches (1 toilet per coach in 5 or 6 out of the 8 coaches perhaps).

Also, some of the photos seem to show some coaches not having a door between the main seating area and the vestibles, is that really the case (I did see doors on some of the pictures, but they seem non-existant on others).
 

TEW

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2008
Messages
5,851
The vestibules had to be enlarged and the toilets moved to allow for the plug door mechanisms to be fitted.It had been mentioned when the work was originally talked about in some magazines that the toilets wouldn't be able to stay where they were. It seems like all the luggage racks have been removed as well, the only way to have all the same number of toilets and luggage racks as now, which is what long distance operators would probably want, would be to remove more seats.
 

route:oxford

Established Member
Joined
1 Nov 2008
Messages
4,949
Some of the photos seem to show some coaches not having a door between the main seating area and the vestibles, is that really the case (I did see doors on some of the pictures, but they seem non-existant on others).

Sealed doors and inter-carriage doors should help mitigate noise if there are no vestibule doors.

The large vestibules should have a dramatic effect on passenger loading compared to other end-door stock. I'm sure somebody will be undertaking analysis of it.
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
16,734
On another note, has any information been released as to the approximate cost of the rebuild per carriage?

Excluding any development if possible as a larger order, such as the GA Mark 3s or the HST fleet would quickly amortise those to almost nothing.
 

Cherry_Picker

Established Member
Joined
18 Apr 2011
Messages
2,796
Location
Birmingham
As the train ended up at Wembley LMD, I understand there will be an ECS move, possibly on Sunday evening, to get the set to BMO for Monday morning when it should work the 06:19 from BMO to MYB on the 28th...

Usual disclaimers apply!

Cheers, Geoff


Yeah, that's pretty much what is going to happen. The ECS movement on a Sunday night has existed for quite some time now, it used to be booked for 19:00 but almost always left an hour or so early. Havent seen the diagram since the timetable change a couple of weeks ago though.

The train will work the 06:19 ex BMO, then as far as I am aware the rest of the diagram too, ie the 08:37 MYB-BMO, 10:55 BMO-MYB (etc). I'm not sure when the loco goes off to get fuel but I think it is going to be the most frequently used rake on services between Moor Street & Marylebone for the foreseeable future.
 

RPM

Established Member
Joined
24 Sep 2009
Messages
1,470
Location
Buckinghamshire
Wait, do the TSOs not have toilets then? What sort of plan is it to have an intercity train with only two toilets (or is there one in the first class carriage as well?)

Suddenly this upgrade does not seem like such a good idea for HST sets. Or is the TSOL referring only to the presence of disabled toilets instead of any kind of toilet?

It's not like they will be working to Scotland. They're only designed for the London - Birmingham run. The set has similar toilet provision to the 168s that will work alongside them and the toilet provision on the 168s has always proved adequate.
 

js47604

Member
Joined
7 Mar 2011
Messages
70
The weekday diagram is

0619 BMO-MYB
0837 MYB-BMO
1055 BMO-MYB
1250 MYB-Wemb Depot
1608 Wemb Depot-MYB
1646 MYB-BMO

Also the reason the Sun ECS from Wemb Depot to BMO has not run recently is service alterations due to events at Wembley Stadium.

However today the 1857 ECS Wemb-MYB and 1933 MYB-BMO are shown as LHCS so I would imagine this is the positioning move for the refurbished set.
 

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,881
Location
Central Belt
It's not like they will be working to Scotland. They're only designed for the London - Birmingham run. The set has similar toilet provision to the 168s that will work alongside them and the toilet provision on the 168s has always proved adequate.

IC 225 now only has one toilet per coach - it isn't normally a problem
 

shaun

Member
Joined
10 Nov 2009
Messages
207
Would love to try to get a ride on this, do Chiltern run LHCS on Bank Holiday Mondays (i.e. next Monday?).
 

Dampflok

Member
Joined
22 Sep 2009
Messages
126
Location
Haddenham, Bucks
Would love to try to get a ride on this, do Chiltern run LHCS on Bank Holiday Mondays (i.e. next Monday?).

You should be in luck as Chiltern are running some LHCS vice 168s on Monday and Tuesday bank holidays, as far as I'm aware:

Bank Holiday Monday 04 June:

· 1H09 06.19 Moor St – Marylebone.

· 1R14 08.37 Marylebone – Moor St.

· 1H32 10.55 Moor St – Marylebone.

· 1R70 22.37 Marylebone – Moor St.


· 1H15 06.55 Moor St – Marylebone.

· 1R34 13.37 Marylebone – Moor St.

· 1H53 15.55 Moor St – Marylebone.

· 1R55 18.37 Marylebone – Moor St.


Public Holiday Tuesday 05 June:

· 1H09 06.19 Moor St – Marylebone.

· 1R14 08.37 Marylebone – Moor St.

· 1H32 10.55 Moor St – Marylebone.

· 1R63 20.37 Marylebone – Moor St.


· 1H15 06.55 Moor St – Marylebone.

· 1R34 13.37 Marylebone – Moor St.

· 1H53 15.55 Moor St – Marylebone.

· 1R55 18.37 Marylebone – Moor St.

I've no idea which of these, if any, will be operated by the new set -or whether they will run as LHCS at all - here's hoping they do...

Cheers, Geoff
 

Peter Sarf

Established Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
5,699
Location
Croydon
About a month ago I travelled to Moor street on the (non updated) MK3s. I must say I very quickly found the ambience so nice - it must be a few years since I last travelled on Mk3s. From the above photos the interior looks pleasantly familiar. It DOES makes me really want to travel on Chilterns refurbished Mk3s.

We returned on a 168 and I dont think I have ever travelled on one before. I was surprised how different they seemed to 170s. Some of the tables resonated piercingly when accelerating near to top speed. I found wedging folded paper between the sliding part of the table and the (aluminium ?) trim above stopped it :D. Not as good as Chilterns Mk3s but surprisingly still better than a Voyager or Pendolino :o.
 

sonic2009

Established Member
Joined
19 Jan 2010
Messages
4,920
Location
Crewe
According to Chilterns facebook this morning, the MK3 coaches with power doors is in revenue earning service.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
 

anthony263

Established Member
Joined
19 Aug 2008
Messages
6,532
Location
South Wales
According to Chilterns facebook this morning, the MK3 coaches with power doors is in revenue earning service.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

Well it was due to enter service today and was supposed to be working the 06:19 from Birmingham
 

JoeGJ1984

Member
Joined
7 Nov 2010
Messages
521
Interesting service update on Chiltern Railways web site:

Last update on: 28th May 2012 15:12:
Chiltern Railways Information.
Business Zone Alteration

Please be aware, this week (Monday 28th May to Friday 1st of June) we will be trialling placing the Business Zone at the London end of the following services:
06:19 Birmingham Moor Street to London Marylebone
08:37 London Marylebone to Birmingham Moor Street
10:55 Birmingham Moor Street to London Marylebone
16:46 London Marylebone to Birmingham Moor Street
This is subject to alteration however should the service be disrupted.
Business Zone Alteration

Please be aware, unfortunately due to a vehicle defect Business Zone will be unavailable on the following services today (Monday):
13:37 London Marylebone - Birmingham Moor Street
15:55 Birmingham Moor Street - London Marylebone
18:07 London Marylebone - Birmingham Moor Street

The first list tallies with the diagrams given above for the new power-door set (can anyone confirm if this has the Business zone at the London end and is it next to the DVT?)
 

RPM

Established Member
Joined
24 Sep 2009
Messages
1,470
Location
Buckinghamshire
Interesting service update on Chiltern Railways web site:



The first list tallies with the diagrams given above for the new power-door set (can anyone confirm if this has the Business zone at the London end and is it next to the DVT?)

Yes this is the power door set and it is indeed in reverse formation with the DVT and business zone at the London end.
 

ryan125hst

Established Member
Joined
2 Jun 2011
Messages
1,234
Location
Retford
Sorry to go slightly off topic, but I thought it would be better to post this on here than start a new thread.

I have just been looking at Chiltern's website and am slightly confused as to why the journey time from Birmingham is 90 minutes, and the journey time from Solihull is being advertised as 1hr 22m, yet Solihull is closer to London than Birmingham.

Can anyone explain this?
 

SprinterMan

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2010
Messages
2,341
Location
Hertford
Sorry to go slightly off topic, but I thought it would be better to post this on here than start a new thread.

I have just been looking at Chiltern's website and am slightly confused as to why the journey time from Birmingham is 90 minutes, and the journey time from Solihull is being advertised as 1hr 22m, yet Solihull is closer to London than Birmingham.

Can anyone explain this?

1hr 22m is 82 minutes, so Solihull is 8 minutes closer to London than Moor Street
Adam :D
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,065
Location
Macclesfield
Last update on: 28th May 2012 15:12:
Chiltern Railways Information.
Business Zone Alteration

Please be aware, unfortunately due to a vehicle defect Business Zone will be unavailable on the following services today (Monday):
13:37 London Marylebone - Birmingham Moor Street
15:55 Birmingham Moor Street - London Marylebone
18:07 London Marylebone - Birmingham Moor Street
Ah, that has explained to me why the 15:55 from Birmingham was formed of only four TSOs today, without even having to ask :)
 

jopsuk

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2008
Messages
12,773
DVTs are at the London End on East Coast Mark 4s and were on West Coast mark 3s. They're at the "country" end round on the Great Eastern.
 

ryan125hst

Established Member
Joined
2 Jun 2011
Messages
1,234
Location
Retford
1hr 22m is 82 minutes, so Solihull is 8 minutes closer to London than Moor Street
Adam :D

I've just been thinking about this before logging on and realised my mistake. The worrying thing is that I am taking AS Maths! :oops: At least I didn't create a new thread- That would of been embarrassing!

How are the new plug doors controlled? Are they using the RCH cables, or have new dedicated cables been installed? I suppose there was already a door control circuit (presumably using the RCH cables) for the central locking system that was fitted. Has this been reused?
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,065
Location
Macclesfield
I've just been thinking about this before logging on and realised my mistake. The worrying thing is that I am taking AS Maths! :oops:
That shouldn't be a problem if your AS Maths course is anything like mine was: I don't recall there being that many actual numbers involved, just lots of theoretical algebra! ;)
 

NIMBUS

Member
Joined
13 May 2011
Messages
176
Ah, that has explained to me why the 15:55 from Birmingham was formed of only four TSOs today, without even having to ask :)

By the time that it reached London it also had an a/c failure. Chiltern and NRE were tweeting that passengers might find it preferable to use the 18:10 from Marylebone in preference to the 18:07 Kiddy, due to the lack of a/c.
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,065
Location
Macclesfield
By the time that it reached London it also had an a/c failure.
I'm glad that I left the train at Leamington Spa in that case then, it was lovely and cool all the way from Birmingham :)

Chiltern would appear to be having some difficulty with the air con on their former Wrexham & Shropshire mark 3s at the moment then: Last week the air con on the middle carriage of one of the other loco hauled sets was knackered when arriving at Moor Street from London prior to working the 15:55 to Marylebone, and could anybody tell me why the leading two TSOs on that service were both locked out of use when arriving from London, but were duly opened up prior to the 15:55 departing? That didn't feel like an air con fault, compared to the roasting temperature in the middle carriage, although on the other hand the train crew were quick to open all the droplights on those two carriages.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top