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Re-Opening Curves to Create New Travel Opportunities

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cle

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Well Cheltenham journey times should be better once that stretch is doubled, I hope.

And to be honest, they should ditch the stupid stop and reversal at Gloucester.

After that, it might be quite favourable.

But the Cotswold line people wouldn't be happy. Perhaps they'd be better served with bi-mode! Or with a reversal at Oxford and then onwards to Marylebone?
 
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LE Greys

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cle said:
Well Cheltenham journey times should be better once that stretch is doubled, I hope.

And to be honest, they should ditch the stupid stop and reversal at Gloucester.

After that, it might be quite favourable.

But the Cotswold line people wouldn't be happy. Perhaps they'd be better served with bi-mode! Or with a reversal at Oxford and then onwards to Marylebone?
Click to expand...

Southern-style bi-mode (a 33 hauling/propelling one or two 4-TCs) would seem to suit that route perfectly. Update the stock a bit, but the idea of a tractor and trailer formation just about works. Imagine a double-powered 395 shoving an unpowered 395 that then gets hauled onwards from Oxford by a Class 68. Extending the Oxford stop should not matter too much. I just hope it's faster than the current times, which have not improved much since Modified Halls worked that route. It's not just Oxford where that might be necessary, the Golden Valley could benefit from something similar.

The biggest problem is making sure that passengers end up in the correct unit.
 
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cle

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Happens at Haywards Heath and Horsham every day still.

I don't think the Oxford bays for the Marylebones can access the Cotswold line. But the current trains can access the main London-bound platform - would be a horrible time consuming manoevre though.

Really Oxford needs a new island, much like Cambridge.
 
D6975

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route:oxford said:
Difficult to tell from Google Earth, but when travelling from Larbert to Glasgow, there appears to be a former trackbed from the mainline to the Cumbernauld route.

http://goo.gl/maps/nVfF

If it ever existed, would re-opening it permit Stirling-Motherwell services without conflict?
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That's not a trackbed of a former route, it's an open route which sees freight trains and the passenger service from Queen St - Cumbernauld - Grahamston.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
GarethGwill said:
How about the curve to the east of Maindee Depot, east of Newport (South Wales) station? I read somewhere the suggestion that when the GWML franchise is let next year, the holders should run a direct Abergavenny - Paddington service, calling at Pontypool & New Inn, Cwmbrân, Severn Tunnel Junction and (I think) Filton Abbey Wood? Then Paddington. AGV - PAD in the morning and PAD - AGV in the evening. You could even run Hereford - Paddington, although FGW already run a service via Worcester. Obviously depends upon the pathing availability (I don't work in the rail industry so I don't know what is involved in running an extra service).

Gareth
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This curve is still there isn't it - I saw a couple of light engine 66s going round it early last year. I suspect it's not cleared for passenger use though - the through services that used to run from Bristol up the Marches always used to call at Newport and reverse.
 
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LE Greys

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cnicht said:
The Horbury Curve, actually Crigglestone Jn to Horbury Station Jn still has a single line mostly still in situ with Flat Bottom CWR on concrete sleepers although both junctions have been removed.
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Doesn't look like there's much left from the overheads, unless it's very heavily overgrown. The enormous bridge between the two arms of the curve looks interesting, though.
 
tbtc

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cnicht said:
The Horbury Curve, actually Crigglestone Jn to Horbury Station Jn still has a single line mostly still in situ with Flat Bottom CWR on concrete sleepers although both junctions have been removed.
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Cheers - I hope to see it reopened one day
 
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GarethGwill

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With regard to my earlier post about the Maindee curve, it's not just my ramblings, Sewta have called for a direct AGV - PAD service:

SEWTA CALLS FOR IMPROVED GREATER WESTERN FRANCHISE
Date posted: 27 April 12
Regional Transport Consortium Sewta has responded to the Government’s Greater Western Franchise replacement consultation by calling for existing services to be retained with improved frequency and capacity, and the new franchisee to commit fully to electrification.
Sewta (the South East Wales Transport Alliance) who co-ordinate transport strategy, plans and programmes for the 10 local councils of South East Wales makes the submission in a 25 page document – Sewta’s Response: Department for Transport - Great Western Franchise Replacement Consultation. The new franchise will start operating in April 2013.
<Snip>
Sewta also highlights aspirational new services that would benefit both potential passengers and the Welsh economy if included in the new franchise:

• Abergavenny to London once a day in each direction, calling at, Pontypool and New Inn, Cwmbran and Severn Tunnel Junction – to arrive in London before 10am, and departure from London before 8 pm.
<Snip>
Full article Here
In my mind, this would involve using the curve as they don't mention calling at Newport, this would also avoid reversing at Newport.

Gareth
 
Eagle

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GarethGwill said:
With regard to my earlier post about the Maindee curve, it's not just my ramblings, Sewta have called for a direct AGV - PAD service:
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Of course, there was one about four or five years ago, but it was via the Cotswolds—meaning journey times were unbrilliant—and it was at a stupid time in the morning.

(Basically FGW had an early morning ECS from Bristol to Hereford via Abergavenny, and decided to experiment and see if it was worth adding a call there. Turned out it wasn't.)
 
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Another curve I have always thought would be worth reinstating is Ardwick junction line west to North curve at Ardwick. There has been no serious building work done on the trackbed but part of the viaduct has been demolished and a road bridge would need replacing. This could give the following service opportunities.

1/ Alternative way from Manchester Piccadilly to Stalybridge bypassing to congested section to Guide Bridge and using the underused line through Aston under Lyne. (May be cheaper than reinstating 4 tracks to Guide Bridge)
2/ Calder Valley trains could be diverted into Manchester Piccadilly for better connection possibilities. Capacity constraints at Piccadilly could limit this at present but it would be usefull at weekends when the Standedge line is closed. However it should be possible to build extra platforms at the east side.
3/ Alternative to the MSJ&A viaduct lines (but with some time penalty) for trains going North to Bolton etc. Would be useful for weekend possessions etc, but could also be used at busy times.
 
tbtc

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apk55 said:
2/ Calder Valley trains could be diverted into Manchester Piccadilly for better connection possibilities
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This will happen in the Northern Hub when *some* Calder Valley services will extend beyond Victoria round the new chord west of central Manchester and back to Deansgate, Oxford Road, Piccadilly and on to Manchester Airport.
 
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Cheshire Rover said:
Latest local news on the Halton Curve. Not only are the Halton and Cheshire MPs calling for it to be reopened, now a Wirral MP is calling for it too.
http://www.runcornandwidnesweeklyne...isused-runcorn-widnes-railway-55368-31222746/
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She claims the Halton Curve would link her constituency with Manchester.

How?

And that it would help to manage the WCML.

How? [Unless it's the very marginal benefit of allowing ETN-LPL to run via Chester if there's a Crewe - Weaver Jn block]
 
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The Planner

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That isn't marginal, that is a big bonus as it allows complete blockage of the line for 48 hour plus possessions and still allows you to run trains and not buses.
 
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railjock

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Why was the Queens cure at Carstairs closed. It would provide a faster journey to and from Edinburgh if re-opened surely.
 
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John55

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6Gman said:
She claims the Halton Curve would link her constituency with Manchester.

How?

And that it would help to manage the WCML.

How? [Unless it's the very marginal benefit of allowing ETN-LPL to run via Chester if there's a Crewe - Weaver Jn block]
Click to expand...

Ms McGovern made no claim that the Halton Curve would link anywhere with Manchester. The reporter in the Widnes and Runcorn Weekly News either completely misunderstood what was said or mangled two separate ideas into a single sentence and wrecked the meaning.

The context of this is a Westminster Hall debate on the 13th June 2012 in which Ms McGovern was making the point that there are transport "black holes" which require attention to allow people to get to work from areas of poor employment opportunity to where there are jobs in and around Merseyside. The Wrexham - Birkenhead line was her main focus but the Halton Curve was mentioned in passing as was the rail link to Skelmersdale by Rosie Cooper.
 
DiscoSteve

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Couple near me.
1. Romiley curve (and extension into Stockport towards Tiviot Dale) as part of Metrolink extension
2. A southern curve near Reddish linking the Piccadilly-Marple Line to the GuideBridge-Stockport line (currently hosts the once a week Ghost train)
Both of these reinstate a rail route from Marple into Stockport - the latter being the cheapest by far
 
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L&Y Robert

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railjock said:
Why was the Queens curve at Carstairs closed. It would provide a faster journey to and from Edinburgh if re-opened surely.
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Is it closed, though? On Google-E it seems to be all there, and electrified, albeit with one of those awkward single-lead junctions at the south end. My guess is that the reasoning for closure might be that with all passenger trains being EMUs now, and driveable from either end, reversal in Carstairs is preferred. This enables passengers for the other place to change cross-platform. But is that what they do? In my day (Oh! the pain!) trains to Scotland were divided at Carstairs, one bit for G, the other bit for E. You had to be sure you were in the right bit! Does anybody remember where the dividing took place? In the station of Carstairs or somewhere just south of it? And another thought, does any freight come through the curve? It might, in the future.
 
tbtc

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L&Y Robert said:
Is it closed, though? On Google-E it seems to be all there, and electrified, albeit with one of those awkward single-lead junctions at the south end. My guess is that the reasoning for closure might be that with all passenger trains being EMUs now, and driveable from either end, reversal in Carstairs is preferred. This enables passengers for the other place to change cross-platform. But is that what they do? In my day (Oh! the pain!) trains to Scotland were divided at Carstairs, one bit for G, the other bit for E. You had to be sure you were in the right bit! Does anybody remember where the dividing took place? In the station of Carstairs or somewhere just south of it? And another thought, does any freight come through the curve? It might, in the future.
Click to expand...

I spent many a childhood weekend stood on the platform there watching the services join/split at Carstairs, but I think that railjock is referring to the former chord south/west of the existing alignment from Kirknewton to Lockerbie (which would have been a marginally faster way of Edinburgh - Carlisle services running).

The splitting/joining was complicated but was done in the platforms at Carstairs.
 
LE Greys

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tbtc said:
I spent many a childhood weekend stood on the platform there watching the services join/split at Carstairs, but I think that railjock is referring to the former chord south/west of the existing alignment from Kirknewton to Lockerbie (which would have been a marginally faster way of Edinburgh - Carlisle services running).

The splitting/joining was complicated but was done in the platforms at Carstairs.
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I think I referred to that curve further up the thread. I have no idea why it was removed, unless it was deemed surplus before the former branch line that seems to go off eastwards was closed, unless there were once plans to put a platform on the curve (which is possible). The current route has a nasty speed restriction, and actually reverse-curves at the north-eastern end. Using the older one would save a lot of flange wear as well as speeding things up.
 
Downsman

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For many years a curve from Arundel to Angmering has been proposed to increase capacity between London and the South Coast. This would give a link to the Arun Valley route to Horsham for the Mole Valley and Sutton lines to Victoria, London Bridge and Waterloo stations. Also it could provide another link with the First Capital Connect system.
 
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tbtc said:
At the risk of sounding very patronising, its refreshing to see someone not arguing for their local line to be the focus of 99% of all investment over the next decade :)
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So you wouldn't be in favour of a line to my house with a train waiting to take me where I want to go ;)
 
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Downsman said:
For many years a curve from Arundel to Angmering has been proposed to increase capacity between London and the South Coast. This would give a link to the Arun Valley route to Horsham for the Mole Valley and Sutton lines to Victoria, London Bridge and Waterloo stations. Also it could provide another link with the First Capital Connect system.
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For many years, third parties have proposed it, and Network Rail have explained why it isn't going to happen, eg:

Sussex RUS said:
8.3.4.4
Linked to this initiative, others suggested construction of an Arundel Chord to allow West Coastway to London services to be routed via the Arun Valley at times of engineering works on the BML and possibly even to generate additional peak capacity. The RUS has not supported this option for two reasons. Firstly, as outlined in 8.3.4.3, routing of additional services via the Arun Valley, Dorking and Sutton in the peak is unlikely to generate additional capacity. Secondly, even during weekend disruption on the BML, journey times from the eastern end of the West Coastway, i.e. the Brighton and Hove area would not be attractive via this route.
Click to expand...
 
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The Ham

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On a previous post on another thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1141898#post1141898

By reinstating the curve to allow trains from Farnborough Main on the SWML to Frimley and building a new curve (passing under the main line) to allow the reverse movement without having to cross the tracks on the main line you could provide a new service which would run Basingstoke to Ascot.

This new service would link two lines which require transfer between by bus, as well as provide the opertunity for additional "local" stations to be built on the mainline which would never be able to be served by existing trains because of the delays that would be incured.

The service (using existing train times on the line) would take just under an hour end to end and would require little or no capacity improvements on the existing lines to provide an hourly (two trains) or half hourly (four trains) service.

The Aldershot Urban Area has a population of 243K (which is almost the same as Plymouth and is bigger than Milton Keynes), add to this Basingstoke (97K), Fleet (32K), Ascot (11K) and the other villages along the route would provide much opitunity for passangers. This would be aided by the fact that the roads in the area are prone to heavy congestion under normal conditions and that there is presure to build many more houses along the length of the line; for instance the village of Hook is looking to gain 500 houses (approx 1,250 more people) in the not to distance future.

There are some additional benefits as well, such as a diversion route to London avoiding Woking and enabling local passengers to travel by train if there are problems outside of the area (i.e. a problem at Clapham Junction or Woking means that no one can get between Fleet and Basingstoke by train or are atleast heavily delayed.
 
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infobleep

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How about reinstating cord through Tongham that avoids Aldershot altogether. <D
 
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The Ham

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infobleep said:
How about reinstating cord through Tongham that avoids Aldershot altogether. <D
Click to expand...

Fine, I'm sure that lots of people would like to avoid Aldershot, but how does that create new travel opportunities?
 
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