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Sun!

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Munich narrowly voted against a new third runway, on a very poor turnout. Bad news for jobs, business and the ordinary person, good news for nimbys.

Boris has backed an additional runway at Stansted. Why? Stansted is already heavily under capacity, and has had falling passenger numbers and takes offs and landings over the last couple of years. Plus who would pay for the runway, BAA the airports owner certainly wouldn't, they would not get any financial returns for it.
The only place that needs an additional runway is at Heathrow. Gatwick being the only real compromise that could work, but that wouldn't be ideal.
 
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SwindonPkwy

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Sun! said:
Boris has backed an additional runway at Stansted. Why? Stansted is already heavily under capacity, and has had falling passenger numbers and takes offs and landings over the last couple of years. Plus who would pay for the runway, BAA the airports owner certainly wouldn't, they would not get any financial returns for it.
The only place that needs an additional runway is at Heathrow. Gatwick being the only real compromise that could work, but that wouldn't be ideal.
Building an additional runway at Stansted would be like building HS2 alongside the ECML. It's on the wrong side of London and would not maximise the return on investment. East Anglia has more than enough runway capacity.
What Boris doesn't seem to grasp is Heathrow's unique role as a hub airport; providing some of the best connections between Europe and America, in particular. Every single overseas passenger that passes through LHR brings revenue, jobs and prosperity to the surrounding area. And so, West London is to LHR's 3rd runway what the Chilterns are to HS2. Munich's loss could be Heathrow's gain. Or, put another way, Heathrow's loss will be Frankfurt's gain.
 
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radamfi

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I have just flown from Glasgow to London City this morning and I was not asked for ID at anytime.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sun!:1124852 said:
Munich narrowly voted against a new third runway, on a very poor turnout. Bad news for jobs, business and the ordinary person, good news for nimbys.

Munich and Bavaria in general is super rich so maybe the economic argument is not as strong as it might be in an area in need of regeneration.
 

SwindonPkwy

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A slight change of topic for the Aviation Discussion thread and one which might get me accused of being a killjoy.

I am a regular viewer of photographs and forums on A.net and one thing that switches me off is when I see yet another photograph of a KL/AF widebody on short finals to St. Maarten (Princess Juliana) airport. Also, I find it staggering that the authorities continue to allow people to "ride the fence" there. Surely it is only a matter of time before somebody is seriously injured.

Any thoughts?
 

flymo

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.... a KL/AF widebody on short finals to St. Maarten (Princess Juliana) airport. Also, I find it staggering that the authorities continue to allow people to "ride the fence" there. Surely it is only a matter of time before somebody is seriously injured.

Any thoughts?

I don't think there has ever been a major incident there and yes some idiots do 'ride the fence' as you say but short of closing the beach and road I don't think there is anything that can be done. Most certainly if anything major does ever happen there then the authorities will probably do something. Shame if they do as the approach is, in my opinion, one of the most spectacular in the world and one of the major tourist attractions of the island

It is most certainly on my 'to do' list, hopefully in 2015 ......:D

There are other islands too in that area which have tricky approaches such as St. Barts. All part of the attraction to me..:)
 

ATW Alex 101

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changing topic has anyone ever experienced a go around? i have once on a emberer 145 at london city and when i go to the Philippines every year where i fly is a tiny airfield surrounded by mountains and high winds and every time but twice the plane has had to go around, fun experience really
 

starrymarkb

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There are other islands too in that area which have tricky approaches such as St. Barts. All part of the attraction to me..:)

Someone was Killed at St Barts a couple of years ago when they were hit by the landing gear of a Caravan while videoing approaches over the beach (Aircraft are far lower there then at Princess Juliana
 

SwindonPkwy

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ATWalex101 said:
changing topic has anyone ever experienced a go around?
Just the once for me. An Olympic Airways Shorts 330 on approach to the old Athens airport back in the mid 80's. I was sitting in row 1 and I remember the cockpit door flying open as we banked to one side. A very turbulent landing followed and I was glad to be safely on the ground.
 

Ascot

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changing topic has anyone ever experienced a go around? i have once on a emberer 145 at london city and when i go to the Philippines every year where i fly is a tiny airfield surrounded by mountains and high winds and every time but twice the plane has had to go around, fun experience really

Had a few in the last 2 years although the worst one was at Birmingham where we went round twice. We was already 1 hour late leaving New York so I wasn't the most popular person turning up almost 2 hours late for work.
 

WestCoast

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I am a regular viewer of photographs and forums on A.net and one thing that switches me off is when I see yet another photograph of a KL/AF widebody on short finals to St. Maarten (Princess Juliana) airport. Also, I find it staggering that the authorities continue to allow people to "ride the fence" there. Surely it is only a matter of time before somebody is seriously injured.

Any thoughts?

It is a spectacular sight, although not a place I'd like to be if there was any problems with an aircraft - either onboard or on the ground. I believe the airport is on the Dutch side of the Island, although with flights from Europe, French airlines do seem to outnumber just KLM representing the Netherlands. Along with AF-KL widebodies, I've seen pictures of Air Caraibes A330s, Corsairfly B747s/A330s and Air Canada B767s.

The airport on the Greek Island of Skiathos is often called the 'European St. Maarten' (although politically St Maarten/St Martin is part of the EU) - it's quieter though and only sees narrowbodies. This thread on another forum has some pics.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
changing topic has anyone ever experienced a go around?

Yes, two that I can remember well, but there were perhaps a couple before that where my memory fails me (they were before I took a serious interest in aviation). Most recently was on a Ryanair B737-800 on a windy night in Manchester last December - the pilot said that ATC had requested it because the aircraft landing ahead was still on the runway due to the heavy crosswind. Another time was onboard a Helios Airways B737-400 in Larnaca, it was in driving rain although the circumstances were never made clear. I believe I had another onboard an Ansett Australia A320 in Adelaide in the late '90s.
 
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WestCoast

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Bombardier CRJs (the whole family) are also not certified for LCY. The place has become a bit of a hub for E190/E170s in recent years, although BA's use of an Eastern Airways Saab 2000 on the Isle of Man route is interesting.

I wonder what CityJet will order to replace their Fokker 50s and Avros, their fleet must be getting on a bit.
 

trentside

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I wonder what CityJet will order to replace their Fokker 50s and Avros, their fleet must be getting on a bit.

The RJ85s are between 12-15 years old and the Fokker 50s are between 19-24 years old - the oldest F50 being OO-VLJ. So a high average fleet age.

Presumably consideration must be given to replacing the F50s before too long, the question being will they go over to E-Jets or place an order for more turboprop aircraft?
 

WestCoast

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The RJ85s are between 12-15 years old and the Fokker 50s are between 19-24 years old - the oldest F50 being OO-VLJ. So a high average fleet age.

Presumably consideration must be given to replacing the F50s before too long, the question being will they go over to E-Jets or place an order for more turboprop aircraft?

Personally, I hope they go for something more interesting than E-Jets. I know a lot of enthusiasts love them, but I find them a bit boring to be honest (scaled down 737s come to mind). They seem to be becoming as common A and B these days.
 

trentside

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Personally, I hope they go for something more interesting than E-Jets. I know a lot of enthusiasts love them, but I find them a bit boring to be honest (scaled down 737s come to mind). They seem to be becoming as common A and B these days.

Got to agree with you there. I've no objection to E-Jets, but when anything is common it does start to get boring for the enthusiast, no matter how well it does the job - look at the Class 66.

I've only travelled on one E170 myself - SP-LDE, with LOT. I must praise the airline on kitting it out with a nice interior, lovely and comfy after a night on the metal benches in the terminal at Gdansk. I was supposed to be on a second flight from Warsaw to Krakow with another E170 but a last minute sub saw EuroLOT ATR SP-LFG filling in instead, far less pleasant and reminded me why I don't like Turboprop aircraft. Though I am flying on another ATR on Thursday...!
 

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ATRs, with their loading from the rear, feel all wrong (and are very slow). That said, I did have an excellent flight on a 9W ATR from BLR-COK with fantastic dosai for breakfast!

I will rate myself as a fan of the e-jets. They're great to travel on, less cramped than the ARJs and a million times better than the godawful CRJs (well, the -900 is OK). I have always loved the 146/ARJ, but not when you're crammed in 6-abreast - my shoulders are too wide for that! LX still do 3+2, IIRC.

But if it has to be a prop, give me a S2000 or a Q400 any time!
 
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Yes, sorry, typo error. It was on a flight from Glasgow to LCY
Not in an E145 though ??????


The RJ85s are between 12-15 years old and the Fokker 50s are between 19-24 years old - the oldest F50 being OO-VLJ. So a high average fleet age.

Presumably consideration must be given to replacing the F50s before too long, the question being will they go over to E-Jets or place an order for more turboprop aircraft?
The economics of running small regional jets are coming under increasing pressure; hence Embraer and Bombardier now looking to move up in size with the next generation.
As such, there's now renewed interest in developing both current and new turboprops in the 50 - 100 seat category.

CityJet's F50's are used on lower density short hops and I think it would be unlikely we'll see the like of the E170/175/190/195 being used as replacements on LCY - Antwerp, LCY - Rotterdam and LCY - Luxembourg etc.

Will CityJet buy new or used?
FlyBe are slimming down their Q400 fleet to make way for their new E175's at the moment !


 
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starrymarkb

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Will CityJet buy new or used?
FlyBe are slimming down their Q400 fleet to make way for their new E175's at the moment !



The Q400 is very thirsty for a Turboprop and to buy one is only a couple of million off an E-Jet, Flybe have managed to get a deal where the E-Jet's seat cost is equal/better then the Q400!
 

WestCoast

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The Q400 is very thirsty for a Turboprop and to buy one is only a couple of million off an E-Jet, Flybe have managed to get a deal where the E-Jet's seat cost is equal/better then the Q400!

Isn't the Q400 a bit of a 'hangar queen' as well? I have heard a few negative comments about it in that area, but I don't know the full story.

Although fuel prices are probably going to be heading in one direction, so turboprops could become more common in the years ahead. In the US, they have thousands upon thousands of thirsty E145s and CRJ-200s and it's a distinct possibility that shorter routes will be handed over to a new(er) generation of turboprops.
 
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starrymarkb

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Isn't the Q400 a bit of a 'hangar queen' as well? I have heard a few negative comments about it in that area, but I don't know the full story.

Although fuel prices are probably going to be heading in one direction, so turboprops could become more common in the years ahead. In the US, they have thousands upon thousands of thirsty E145s and CRJ-200s and it's a distinct possibility that shorter routes will be handed over to a new(er) generation of turboprops.

I've heard that as well.

Pre-Flybe British European were nearly bankrupted by the CRJ-200. With the fuel price rise around 2001/2002 they needed 100% loads to break even. I believe they ended up being used on contract flying for Air France where AF took the liability of filling them and paid BE by the Hour). The US seems to have union agreements preventing the use of anything bigger then an ERJ/CRJ but the airlines are not willing to 'downgrade' a service to props (Horizon excepted, IIRC the merged United are having issues with the former Continental Q400s and the merged union)
 

SwindonPkwy

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WestCoast said:
In the US, they have thousands upon thousands of thirsty E145s and CRJ-200s...

Don't I just know it!! I cannot remember the last time I flew on a US domestic flight on anything else. I will stop there before this turns into a rant!
 

giblets

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Yep, the Q400's left me in Glasgow hanging round the airport on more than one occasion (though they do have a nice selection of Malts! :) )
 

Sun!

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Farnborough Air Show begins today.
http://www.farnborough.com/airshow-2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-18762001

(A small amount of) News and Speculation:
Cathay Pacific to go for the A350-1000? http://fr.reuters.com/article/frEuroRpt/idFRL6E8I832U20120708

Arkia in final talks for the A320NEO

Bombardier has already won an order for the C-Series, from an as yet undisclosed buyer http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...l-for-15-cseries-jetliners-1-.html?cmpid=yhoo

This show should be very good the the new 737, expect quite a few big orders.
GE Leasing to purchase 100 737s http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...er-from-ge-jet-leasing-unit-for-100-737s.html
United may purchase 200 Boeing jets (Mainly 737)

More than the A320NEO, but don't expect Airbus to be quiet at the show.

Will Turkish for the 747-8 or the A380 (Or maybe the A350-1000/ 777-8/9)

Aeromexico close to buying 70 737/A320s. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-deal-for-about-70-boeing-or-airbus-jets.html


Going to be an exciting week for aviation enthusiasts! :)
 

starrymarkb

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This show should be very good the the new 737, expect quite a few big orders.
GE Leasing to purchase 100 737s http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...er-from-ge-jet-leasing-unit-for-100-737s.html
United may purchase 200 Boeing jets (Mainly 737)

More than the A320NEO, but don't expect Airbus to be quiet at the show.

Didn't the NEO get over 1000 orders at Paris compared to the 737s 50, with the launch of the MAX I suspect this will be Boeing's show as parity is restored
 

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Some interesting news is that Aer Lingus are apparently bidding for some slots at Heathrow, with the intention of providing domestic services to Edinburgh. The slots are some of the 12 released by BA following their acquisition of BMI.

The article also reports that the European Commission have stated that 8 slot pairs must be used for domestic routes between Heathrow and Edinburgh or Aberdeen to ensure competition with BA on those routes.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/aer-lingus-bid-uk-slots-205607639.html
 

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Ryanair Submits €694 Million Bid For Irish Rival Aer Lingus

Ryanair Holdings Plc (RYA) submitted a 694 million-euro ($854 million) bid for Aer Lingus Group Plc (AERL) after saying last month it would resume a pursuit of its Irish rival.
Europe’s biggest discount airline, which owns 29.8 percent of Aer Lingus, offered to buy the remaining stock for 1.30 euros a share, it said today in a statement. That’s a 38 percent premium to the close on June 19, the day before Ryanair stated that it would renew a pursuit blocked by regulators in the past.

Ryanair Chief Executive Officer Michael O’Leary reckons the chances of clearing antitrust hurdles have been boosted by mergers among other European carriers, falling traffic in Dublin that leaves room for new entrants and Irish government plans to auction its own 25 percent stake in Aer Lingus.
“O’Leary seems to really have the bit between his teeth on this,” said John Strickland, director of JLS Consulting in London. “It would be a big strategic step and one of those things he’d like to do before he leaves. But it will still be extremely challenging to make any headway with the regulators.”
Aer Lingus traded 1.2 percent higher at 1.07 euros as of 12:05 p.m. in Dublin, where both carriers are based, taking the gain this year to 68 percent. That’s still 23 cents below the offer price and values the carrier at 567 million euros.
Passenger Growth
Ryanair, which built its stake in 2006 and 2007 and is making the new bid via wholly-owned subsidiary Coinside Ltd., was little changed at 4.13 euros. The company has a market value of 5.94 billion euros and has advanced 14 percent this year.
O’Leary has pledged to lift Aer Lingus’s annual passenger total to 14 million over five years from 9.5 million today and says Ryanair (RYA) would invest in expanding trans-Atlantic flights.
“In six years as a public company, Aer Lingus has failed to deliver value,” the CEO said in a letter accompanying the bid document, adding that the bid represents “excellent value” given the smaller airline’s cumulative loss of 91 million euros during that period.

Ryanair is seeking acceptances for the bid by Sept. 13. In addition to the offer price, investors would also get a dividend of 3 cents a share announced by Aer Lingus on May 4 that they’re due to receive on July 31.
European Union regulators blocked Ryanair’s bid for Aer Lingus in 2007, saying a takeover would allow the discount airline to dominate 35 routes and control 80 percent of the market in Dublin. Ryanair lost a 2010 appeal of the merger ban.
Ryanair is also facing a full investigation by the U.K.’s Competition Commission of its holding in the smaller carrier after the national regulator said it may lead to higher prices.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...million-offer-for-irish-rival-aer-lingus.html

This is yet another attempt I think, but the world economy is in a very different position to four or five years so ago and the Irish Government has to sell their share, so we'll see...
 
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trentside

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This is yet another attempt I think, but the world economy is in a very different position to four or five years so ago and the Irish Government has to sell their share, so we'll see...

Indeed, interest from Ryanair in acquiring Aer Lingus was one of the suggested reasons for the latter seeking to enter the UK domestic market.

Interestingly, I've just recieved an email from Aer Lingus informing me that from 28th October, their relocation from Belfast International to Belfast City Airport from this date, along with a new route from Belfast City to Gatwick Airport.
 
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