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Etiquette of informing fellow passengers

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Coxster

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I know you can't, but that's not the same as saying you shouldn't be able to.
The fact the guard probably doesn't have £60 in his float, or if he did and has to give it all to you, what's he gonna do when he needs to give the next passenger change?
 
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4SRKT

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The fact the guard probably doesn't have £60 in his float, or if he did and has to give it all to you, what's he gonna do when he needs to give the next passenger change?

A debit card refund? After all this is most likely how someone has paid for a £117 ticket in the first place. He could give some sort of authority to refund instead anyway that would be exchangable at a booking office. This seems a very small technicality to stand in the way of this.
 

brompton rail

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A debit card refund? After all this is most likely how someone has paid for a £117 ticket in the first place. He could give some sort of authority to refund instead anyway that would be exchangable at a booking office. This seems a very small technicality to stand in the way of this.

But, she didn't buy the ticket from Northern, but probably from Scotrail or Virgin (or an Internet sales outlet). Refunds are normally given only at the location where you purchased the ticket (e.g. Glasgow Central).

Anyway the example given is really little different to me spending over £100 on an Anytime ticket to London and siting next to some one who paid £25 for an Advance, and they tell me I could have saved £75 by buying in Advance. "yeh, I know mate, why do you get a reserved seat when I might have to stand?"
 

4SRKT

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But, she didn't buy the ticket from Northern, but probably from Scotrail or Virgin (or an Internet sales outlet). Refunds are normally given only at the location where you purchased the ticket (e.g. Glasgow Central).

Anyway the example given is really little different to me spending over £100 on an Anytime ticket to London and siting next to some one who paid £25 for an Advance, and they tell me I could have saved £75 by buying in Advance. "yeh, I know mate, why do you get a reserved seat when I might have to stand?"
what are you talking about? The example is completely different. As for the TOC which sold it being the one that gives the refund this hardly matters if you give out an authority to refund rather than cash, which as discussed is impractical.



 

island

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Anyway the example given is really little different to me spending over £100 on an Anytime ticket to London and siting next to some one who paid £25 for an Advance, and they tell me I could have saved £75 by buying in Advance. "yeh, I know mate, why do you get a reserved seat when I might have to stand?"

No, that's a complete non-sequitur.
 

hairyhandedfool

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So, I make a choice to pay for a more expensive ticket because I'm not sure what train service I am taking, and then when I eventually end up on the cheaper train service I can claim a refund?

Really?????

I do like eating cake, but this sounds like a non-starter.
 

yorkie

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So, I make a choice to pay for a more expensive ticket because I'm not sure what train service I am taking...?
I am not entering the refund argument but if anyone is unsure which route they are taking, they should buy the cheaper ticket. The ticket can be excessed on board on payment of the difference in fare. That way, no-one loses out.

It is, however, more problematic when on business expenses, if the business wants to assign a fixed cost in advance, in which case if they want to throw money away that's up to them. But for most "normal" passengers there's no need to lose out.
 

hairyhandedfool

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....if anyone is unsure which route they are taking, they should buy the cheaper ticket. The ticket can be excessed on board on payment of the difference in fare. That way, no-one loses out...

I agree, but the debating point is that the passenger has not done that, for whatever reason.

....It is, however, more problematic when on business expenses, if the business wants to assign a fixed cost in advance, in which case if they want to throw money away that's up to them....

You may then also enter the arena of people claiming expenses for a large fare, and claiming a refund for using a cheaper train service. This may not be the railway's concern (IANAL), but should be considered as an issue.
 

sheff1

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I am on the 16.19 Carlisle - Leeds. Sat opposite me at a table is a woman who is travelling on an Anytime Single from Glasgow to Shipley, Route Any Permitted. It has cost her £117. I am quite sure she could have bought a ticket well under half the price (Route via Appleby). I suspect she may have bought it from a TVM.

Would forum members offer some help on this one? Note we have not spoken to each other.

In a case like this, you do not know the circumstances under which the ticket was purchased so personally I would not strike up a conversation about it.

On the other hand, I have on occasions assisted confused looking people at TVMs before they have bought a ticket. For some reason this usually seems to happen at Manchester Airport. There again, in a European capital last weekend, posters and announcements advised passengers to be wary of offers of 'assitance' at ticket machines and I have fended off 'helpers' at more than one station in Italy .... so maybe I shouldn't help in these circumstances either :)

At the end of the day, do what you think is right for you.
 

kieron

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As far as I am aware, you don't need one, any ticket of greater value is valid through other all routes where the fare is the same or lower - with exception of TOC specific tickets where you can not remove this restriction.
Also with the exception that a ticket isn't valid by any permitted route merely because it costs more than the equivalent Any Permitted one.

Sorry about that.
 
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bb21

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Why not? (If a Change of Route Excess is required then it will be a zero excess so most guards would just be creating extra work for themselves.)
 

hairyhandedfool

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Also with the exception that a ticket isn't valid by any permitted route merely because it costs more than the equivalent Any Permitted one.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree.

National Routeing Guide Instructions said:
....If a choice of routes is available and the fare for the
journey is described as "Any Permitted" route or is unrouted, you are free to
choose any of the routes listed in the Guide. Where the fare specifies a
particular route, you may choose only those routes listed in the Guide which
pass through the station shown in the route description. The Routeing Guide
may have to be used to find out how to reach the station shown in the route
description. Where there are other permitted routes, these may also be used
for the same journey provided the same or a lower fare applies. ....

The last sentence seems to allow it.
 

island

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I agree with hairyhandedfool. The confusion may arise from the rule that an ANY PERMITTED ticket may be used on a non-mapped route if there is a cheaper ticket on the same flow which specifically allows that route.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I do wonder if this doesn't all come down to passengers terrified they will get "fined" for buying the wrong ticket (possibly recalling a Daily Fail article where a family of four was charged £237 for travelling on the train before they one they'd booked from Brum to London) and therefore choosing to pay for more validity than they need.

There is a case for blocking SDR tickets at TVMs on weekends where a CDR exists, except perhaps in Virgin land...

And ironically enough I spoke yesterday with a colleague who fell into this trap and ended up far worse off. She and her partner bought SDRs from London Terminals to Milton Keynes C on a Saturday, and got Penalty Fared for £37 at the barriers at Euston when she came back on Sunday, despite her protestations that the ticket "clearly says anytime".

They have sworn off the railway and will drive next time. And the time after that.
 
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cuccir

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And ironically enough I spoke yesterday with a colleague who fell into this trap and ended up far worse off. She and her partner bought SDRs from London Terminals to Milton Keynes C on a Saturday, and got Penalty Fared for £37 at the barriers at Euston when she came back on Sunday, despite her protestations that the ticket "clearly says anytime".

It also clearly says day...
 

island

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And Validity "ON DATE SHOWN", and valid until today's date. But it doesn't stop people from whining!
 

dvboy

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I don't generally give people fares advice on the train, but I have done online e.g. via Twitter where I know of a split or alternative route (eg via Kensington Olympia). The only advice I sometimes give to fellow passengers on the train is when it's delayed, usually "they have to let you get the next train if you miss your connection" and "if you're delayed over 30 minutes you can claim compensation" - surprising how many passengers don't know this, and how many guards don't tell passengers this. I also advise people not to use the Trainline!
 

bb21

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"if you're delayed over 30 minutes you can claim compensation" - surprising how many passengers don't know this, and how many guards don't tell passengers this. I also advise people not to use the Trainline!

I do this quite often and a large majority of people don't seem to have any idea of it at all.

Complete mayhem at New Street on Saturday due to a one-under further East. I got the 1822 and the one 30 minutes earlier, which called at all local stations, was cancelled. Loads of people for Hinckley and Narborough got on my train and were told to change at Nuneaton for the one 30 minutes behind. When I mentioned to a fellow passenger heading for Hinckley during a casual conversation that he should write in and claim his rightful Delay Repay compensation, I suddenly found myself answering questions from six people who sat around me. None of them, despite some being regular travellers, knew about it and most of them just thought it was tough if the train is late.
 
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