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FGW delays at Cardiff Central on 1st August after Olympic football match

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D1009

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Was that all? 4 extra HST's?

So those 4 sets of Mk1's/Mk2's I passed at Wembley weren't considered as strategic enough - so they were left there for use by other operators, if required?

A complete failure of foresight.

In fact two sets of hauled stock were sent to Cardiff, but as this was a late decision, in the end they managed to get everyone on the HSTs, albeit rather uncomfortably, so the hauled stock returned empty to Wembley.
 
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Jordeh

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Other than the Voyager extensions to Weymouth, as far as I am aware XC did not run anything extra for the Olympics. Whether a later train from Cardiff to Birmingham/Nottingham/Sheffield/Leeds would have been viable or could have been resourced is open to question.
I was very disappointed by this personally, I used the train from Derby to get there but had to rely on a rather long lift home due to XC not even bothering to run a train as far as Birmingham never mind Derby!
 

timstours

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i had experience of lack of information from atw at newport yesterday when a dbs coal train failed in the severn tunnel area ,
trains were arriving from cardiff and nobody knew what to do with them ,there were no staff on platform 1 to help elderly passengers to go to platform 4( as a example) ,i asked the staff myself if they could turn off the pa system as it was announcing trains the did not exsist and then cut off ,i was told to mind my own business !!
 

BestWestern

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I can't help but wonder if FGW guards noticed the increase on trains going into Cardiff, and perhaps should have alerted their control.

I can assure you that Guards have no sway whatsoever over any additional train services being run, those decisions are made well in advance and by people who are well out of the reach of anybody working trains on the day. I took an exceptionally crowded Sprinter to Cardiff last week. When the platforms at Bristol and Bath etc are thronging with hundreds of people, many of whom you have left behind, it is rather pointless phoning a busy and agitated controller to tell them that the trains are busy! :roll:

There has been a general feeling that perhaps additional resources were weighted too much towards the Weymouth services and not sufficiently towards Cardiff, but it must be remembered that these events are wholly unprecedented, resources are limited and FGW are particularly hamstrung as there are events taking place in several different corners of the same network.
 
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455driver

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So "they" decide to have a football match that will finish late in the evening (even later after extra time and penalties) after the normal last trains have left, the railway put on 4 extra 8 coach trains plus AW increase the number of coaches on many of their services and its the railways fault that things go wrong!
These matches should finish much earlier in the evening to give public transport half a chance of coping.
At a "normal" football match at Cardiff how many of the fans arrive from England and how many from within south Wales?
At these Olympic events the vast majority are from England which is not normal!
 

John55

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So "they" decide to have a football match that will finish late in the evening (even later after extra time and penalties) after the normal last trains have left, the railway put on 4 extra 8 coach trains plus AW increase the number of coaches on many of their services and its the railways fault that things go wrong!
These matches should finish much earlier in the evening to give public transport half a chance of coping.
At a "normal" football match at Cardiff how many of the fans arrive from England and how many from within south Wales?
At these Olympic events the vast majority are from England which is not normal!

Domestic league games in the UK seem to be organised with the express purpose of denying spectators the use of public transport (outside London which as always is different) so why should these olympic games be any different?
 

PHILIPE

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We have a similar problem at Cardiff on International Rugby Satrudays when one of the 2 matches on the day starts at 17XX time. Train Companies have complained abot these running into thr evening and being Satrudays, Engineering work can impact on train services. The governing body says that nothing can be done about this as it is at the behest of the TV Companies.
 

ushawk

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Domestic league games in the UK seem to be organised with the express purpose of denying spectators the use of public transport (outside London which as always is different) so why should these olympic games be any different?

Please expand on this.

I regularly attend matches and am never told i cant use public transport, my local club (Brighton) actually encourages you to actually use it, we get extra trains laid on too. Have had absolutely no problems at any away games ive done either (local stations are usually prepared with extra staff/BTP).
 

MCR247

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I don't think he is saying that fans are told that they can't use public transport. I think he is saying the match times etc are at an awkward time for public transport and therefore it isn't easy for them to use public transport. (ie FA Cup final?)
 

brizzlechris

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So "they" decide to have a football match that will finish late in the evening (even later after extra time and penalties) after the normal last trains have left, the railway put on 4 extra 8 coach trains plus AW increase the number of coaches on many of their services and its the railways fault that things go wrong!
I guess the public transport naming is slightly misleading. What a fool to think it might be run to suit the needs of the public... :roll:
 

Greenback

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I guess the public transport naming is slightly misleading. What a fool to think it might be run to suit the needs of the public... :roll:

Yes, well, there is a substantial difference between public transport and running transport as a public service. We certainly don't do the latter!
 

455driver

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I guess the public transport naming is slightly misleading. What a fool to think it might be run to suit the needs of the public... :roll:

Yes of course silly me, all train/ bus companies should have a fleet of trains/ buses and plenty of staff available 24 hours a day to operate them for when some people want to watch other people kick a ball into a net/ go see some singer or other etc and then get home at stupid oclock in the evening shouldnt they! :roll:

Who is going to pay for all this again I think I missed your post about that? :roll:
 

moonrakerz

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Yes of course silly me, all train/ bus companies should have a fleet of trains/ buses and plenty of staff available 24 hours a day to operate them for when some people want to watch other people kick a ball into a net/ go see some singer or other etc and then get home at stupid oclock in the evening shouldnt they! :roll:

That's right - have a dig at the travelling public; it's all their fault. The railways would be a great place to work if it wasn't for all these b****y people who keep travelling on the trains :roll::roll:

None of the problems are caused by the rail industry are they ? My pantomime of a journey to and from Cardiff yesterday was all my fault for expecting the trains to be as per the timetable and - worst of all - expecting seats to be available on the train.
The 1330 Cardiff to Portsmouth yesterday was an absolute disgrace - not helped by the fact that the station/train staff seemed determined to make what was going to be a very busy train loading into a free-for-all mad scramble to even get on the train.
At least the aircon was working (unusually) or people would have been passing out from the heat - still, they wouldn't have fallen down, that would have been impossible in the crush..........................

Of course all the people on that train could still have been trying to get home from the previous night's game at the Millenium Stadium :lol:
 

BestWestern

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That's right - have a dig at the travelling public; it's all their fault. The railways would be a great place to work if it wasn't for all these b****y people who keep travelling on the trains :roll::roll:

The 1330 Cardiff to Portsmouth yesterday was an absolute disgrace - not helped by the fact that the station/train staff seemed determined to make what was going to be a very busy train loading into a free-for-all mad scramble to even get on the train.
At least the aircon was working (unusually) or people would have been passing out from the heat - still, they wouldn't have fallen down, that would have been impossible in the crush..........................

You're quite right in that the travelling public have a reasonable expectation that public transport will get them where they need to go, particularly when there are major events taking place. However, in the case of your journey above, the 'staff' have little choice but to fill the trains to their capacity when there are such high numbers of people attempting to travel. Would you have preferred it if you'd spent an hour standing in a queue and ended up on the 14.30 or 15.30 train instead?! A crush load doesn't make for the comfiest of journeys, but unfortunately that's just how it is. As many will tell you, some commuters travel in those conditions every day. I took several services loaded with football spectators over to Cardiff, and I had the same inevitable comments/abuse from various people protesting that the train was so full etc. But sadly, the only alternative is that people simply don't get there. Try telling people to wait for the next train; amazingly nobody ever seems to fancy it :roll:
 

moonrakerz

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the 'staff' have little choice but to fill the trains to their capacity when there are such high numbers of people attempting to travel.

Agreed - but in this case the 'staff' seemed to show little concern about the state of this train or the waiting passengers.
The train arrived at the far end of the platform some 15 mins before departure time, some passengers set off in that direction to board the train but were herded away by station staff. The train sat there with the driver (apparently) just having a conversation with someone on the platform.
The train finally moved up to the area where the would be passengers were waiting some 2 minutes after its scheduled departure time. This then produced a disorganised scrum to board the already late train. If the train had been moved up earlier, passengers/grannies/buggies/bikes/luggage could have been boarded in a much more sensible manner.

As many will tell you, some commuters travel in those conditions every day
Indeed ! had this been the 1730 out of Cardiff/Bristol/Southampton on a weekday, I would have expected it to be packed - but the trains on this whole route are totally inadequate, and have been for years and are now regularly overcrowded even in the "quiet" times of the day. This lack of rolling stock is not generally the fault of the TOC - but (and I have seen others daring to mention this on this forum) there seems to be a lack of will/interest by some railway staff to do even the simplest of things to help alleviate the problem.
There may have been an announcement to explain what was going on but with every announcement being made twice (in English & Welsh) it was nigh on impossible to discern what was an important announcement and what was dross about unattended bags from the almost non stop babble from the loudspeakers. (The US Air Force proved years ago that the more audio information you are given the less you will actually take in)

On the journey earlier in the day to Cardiff, there was a minor incident which really typifies my point.
We arrived at Westbury on a train from Southampton. According to the timetable this train terminated at Westbury, as the train came to a stop, "all change" was announced. By this time the train was nearly 25 mins late - I had already rung the person in Cardiff I was meeting and told him that I had probably missed my (8 min) connection at Westbury. Every one gets off and most then look to see where the Temple Meads train is leaving from. Good news - same platform ! then after a couple of minutes confusion it appears that the train we have just got off is actually the one going to Temple Meads - so we all get back on again.
1. Why is none of this reflected in the timetable ?
2. Why didn't someone on the train/platform tell us to stay put ?
Very minor points, but when this sort of thing happens several times on a journey even the most placid/good natured traveller starts getting a little frayed around the edges.

I like travelling by train - but it both annoys and saddens me when I have to "endure" a trip like the one to/from Cardiff :(
 

BestWestern

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On the journey earlier in the day to Cardiff, there was a minor incident which really typifies my point.
We arrived at Westbury on a train from Southampton. According to the timetable this train terminated at Westbury, as the train came to a stop, "all change" was announced. By this time the train was nearly 25 mins late - I had already rung the person in Cardiff I was meeting and told him that I had probably missed my (8 min) connection at Westbury. Every one gets off and most then look to see where the Temple Meads train is leaving from. Good news - same platform ! then after a couple of minutes confusion it appears that the train we have just got off is actually the one going to Temple Meads - so we all get back on again.
1. Why is none of this reflected in the timetable ?
2. Why didn't someone on the train/platform tell us to stay put ?
Very minor points, but when this sort of thing happens several times on a journey even the most placid/good natured traveller starts getting a little frayed around the edges.

I like travelling by train - but it both annoys and saddens me when I have to "endure" a trip like the one to/from Cardiff :(

I agree, some journeys are enough to put you off for life!

The incident you describe at Westbury would almost certainly have been due to a lack of communication from FGW control, rather than any staff member 'on the ground' being deliberately obstructive. I can assure you that nobody would intentionally empty out a late running train, only to then ask everybody to re-board. The crew - and quite possibly the platform staff also - were probably informed only that their train would be terminating, with the decision to then send the same train onwards having either been not passed on in good time, or not made until the last moment. Sadly, it's not unusual for traincrew to be the last to know anything; I arrived into a major station recently to find an additional unit waiting to be attached that neither me nor my Driver knew anything about!

As for your first point about Cardiff, sadly it can be chaos at times. It sounds like your train may have left from platforms 1 or 2? In which case, the train is required to wait at the end of the platform until the person in charge of the platform waves it down. Pax are not allowed to board trains waiting at the far end, and there are signs to relay this. There is not much a Driver or Guard can do, other than wait until their train is waved down to start boarding. Again, I have experienced this myself, and ended up leaving late due to waiting there for an excessively long time in the absence of any platform staff.
 

Flamingo

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I can't help but wonder if FGW guards noticed the increase on trains going into Cardiff, and perhaps should have alerted their control.

yes and yes :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Agreed - but in this case the 'staff' seemed to show little concern about the state of this train or the waiting passengers.

So what do you want them to do? Cry? Wail? Rip their clothes and throw ash's on their head?

The current rail network in the UK is a "walk-up" system. You can catch any (valid) train with a (valid) ticket, but unless a seat is reserved, then no seat is guaranteed. If a passenger can't find a seat on a train, their two choices are to wait for the next train, or stand.

The only alternative is that the rail network uses a "reservation only" system, where nobody is allowed to get onto the train without a seat reservation. This is, I believe, the system in other countries.

If there is continuous overcrowding on certain services, then TOC's can use this as an arguement to get more stock from the DfT, but this usually involves someone else being robbed of it.

Occasional crowding due to blips in the system happens. It's not ideal, but there is very little the staff on the ground can do about it, and don't expect them to be wailing and gnashing teeth - it's all in a days work, and whilst staff are sympathetic, in a few minutes that train will be gone and another set of problems will be along.
 

WelshBluebird

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Agreed - but in this case the 'staff' seemed to show little concern about the state of this train or the waiting passengers.
The train arrived at the far end of the platform some 15 mins before departure time, some passengers set off in that direction to board the train but were herded away by station staff. The train sat there with the driver (apparently) just having a conversation with someone on the platform.
The train finally moved up to the area where the would be passengers were waiting some 2 minutes after its scheduled departure time. This then produced a disorganised scrum to board the already late train. If the train had been moved up earlier, passengers/grannies/buggies/bikes/luggage could have been boarded in a much more sensible manner.

This is nearly always the case with the Cardiff - Portsmouth service.
I think its so they can clean the train and set out the seat reservations or just waiting to be cleared to move down the platform.

It is quite amusing when I tell people not to bother going to the other end of the platform, only for them to reply with something like "don't tell me what to do". Obviously they end up wishing they had listened to me. Passengers do not always help themselves.
 

PHILIPE

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Thats correct. And they only draw up when there is no preceding train at the platform, i.e. can be at the West End initially cleaning, watering and seat reservations for example if xx21 to Holyhead is at platform they will not be called up by the train despatcher until the Holyhead and he in turn has to get authority from signaller.
 

moonrakerz

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rather than any staff member 'on the ground' being deliberately obstructive. I can assure you that nobody would intentionally empty out a late running train, only to then ask everybody to re-board. The crew - and quite possibly the platform staff also - were probably informed only that their train would be terminating, with the decision to then send the same train onwards having either been not passed on in good time, or not made until the last moment.

Don't get me wrong please, I wasn't saying that anyone was being deliberately obstructive. We were told to get off the train, we did; the departure board showed the "1st" train to be the one most people wanted to get on. We stood there waiting for the empty train to be removed when an announcement was made that the train on that platform was actually the one we wanted - or was it ? we had just been told to get off it ! They appeared to be changing drivers and somebody went and asked them - then we all got back on again - all that was missing was somebody playing the piano :lol:
I got the impression (after the event and looking more closely at the timetable) that the (Temple Meads) train starting at Westbury and going on to Gloucester normally used the same rolling stock as the terminating service from Soton. Why weren't these two services just shown as a Soton to Gloucester service - as they are later in the day ? Perhaps another "Franchise Fiddle" ???
So what do you want them to do? Cry? Wail? Rip their clothes and throw ash's on their head?

Your inane comment goes a long way to reinforcing my point about the attitude of some railway staff - thank you.


I think its so they can clean the train and set out the seat reservations or just waiting to be cleared to move down the platform.


Thats correct. And they only draw up when there is no preceding train at the platform, i.e. can be at the West End initially cleaning, watering and seat reservations for example if xx21 to Holyhead is at platform they will not be called up by the train despatcher until the Holyhead and he in turn has to get authority from signaller.

WelshBluebird & PHILIPE, thank you for your eminently sensible suggestions on the reasons for what happened that day but.........
when the train drew up at the West end of the platform and sat there, nothing happened. No one got on, no one got off, the water wasn't topped up, no cleaners got on/off, no rubbish bags were removed.
There was no other train on the platform - and there hadn't been for at least ten minutes (when I arrived) before hand.
None of the doors on the train opened - the only activity was the one person stood on the platform apparently talking to the driver and one other person who stopped passengers going down the platform towards the train.

If for some (signalling ?) reason the train could not be moved down the platform - until after its scheduled departure time, there was absolutely no (apparent) reason why the passengers couldn't have boarded it at the West end of the platform - I think most of us could have managed the walk :)
 

BestWestern

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WelshBluebird & PHILIPE, thank you for your eminently sensible suggestions on the reasons for what happened that day but.........
when the train drew up at the West end of the platform and sat there, nothing happened. No one got on, no one got off, the water wasn't topped up, no cleaners got on/off, no rubbish bags were removed.
There was no other train on the platform - and there hadn't been for at least ten minutes (when I arrived) before hand.
None of the doors on the train opened - the only activity was the one person stood on the platform apparently talking to the driver and one other person who stopped passengers going down the platform towards the train.

If for some (signalling ?) reason the train could not be moved down the platform - until after its scheduled departure time, there was absolutely no (apparent) reason why the passengers couldn't have boarded it at the West end of the platform - I think most of us could have managed the walk :)

They're both quite correct in what they say here; trains are required to stop at the far end of the platform. They cannot proceed further until they are instructed to do so by the person in charge of the platform (platform staff). A Driver who just bowled on up the platform without permission would be in serious lumber! It is a standing arrangement that passengers do not board trains until they have been moved up the platform, for several reasons. There are (usually, even if not in this case!) cleaning/tanking operations taking place, as well as seat reservation labels being put in place, and it would be quite obviously inconvenient to have people start boarding whilst this is happening. There will often be a second train waiting to pull into the spot at the end of the platform, which means that the first train has to move on down. Doing this halfway through loading pax would cause even more annoyance I'm sure!

Without meaning to sound condescending, this is one of those situations where the 'logic' of what is going on isn't immediately apparent to the travelling public. Though I can appreciate in this case it is irritating when those who should be in a certain place at a certain time getting things moving, don't appear on time.
 

quarella

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The incident you describe at Westbury would almost certainly have been due to a lack of communication from FGW control,

Cos traincrew always inform Control of everything they should. :D

The crew - and quite possibly the platform staff also - were probably informed only that their train would be terminating, with the decision to then send the same train onwards having either been not passed on in good time, or not made until the last moment.

Could there be an element of "banging head against brick wall." You start off enthusiastic but over time with the public and management just reach a point of accepting that is how it is.
 

Flamingo

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Bucephalus, you said the staff seemed to show little concern - I'm trying to establish what you think their reaction should be (along with explaining some inconvenient facts about the rail network and how it operates).
 

moonrakerz

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Bucephalus, you said the staff seemed to show little concern - I'm trying to establish what you think their reaction should be (along with explaining some inconvenient facts about the rail network and how it operates).


What should their reaction have been ? I don't know - as we never knew what the "problem" was - if there ever was one. To be blunt - I suppose their reaction should have been to allow the passengers to board the train in adequate time to allow the service to leave on time. Indeed, with the large number of passengers waiting to board, the reaction should have been to get the train there even earlier !
The whole thing seemed to me, and others ("WTF is going on" was one comment I heard from a group of young men stood behind me !) as a classic example of "let them (the passengers) eat cake".

There seemed to be no reason why the train could not have moved up the the platform to where the passengers were waiting or why the passengers were not allowed to board the train where it was. If there had been a problem, the driver, or his mate, were close enough to have at least told us what was happening.
 

Flamingo

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Why was it so important that you were told? Would it have made any difference?
 

moonrakerz

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Why was it so important that you were told? Would it have made any difference?

I am absolutely astounded that you ask such questions ! To treat the paying public like mushrooms - "keep 'em in the dark and cover 'em with ***"..............just inexcusable - but this seems to be quite acceptable to you - amazing. I really am lost for words.

You certainly HAVE confirmed my earlier comment that there are some railway staff who seem to think that their convenience comes a long way before any concept of providing a service to the public - for which the public are paying through the nose.
 

Flamingo

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No, I just wonder why some people feel the need to micromanage others, and have such insecurity that the slightest thing that upsets the flow of their lives warrants blame and condemnation.

Something I have discovered over the years (long before I worked for the railway) is that just because someone is a customer does not make them some sort of god who's slightest whim has to be pandered to, and also does not make them a nice or stable personality.

Looking at some peoples Twitter drivel illustrates my point perfectly.

(I notice that your response was indignation, by the way, not an answer)
 
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D1009

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We arrived at Westbury on a train from Southampton. According to the timetable this train terminated at Westbury, as the train came to a stop, "all change" was announced. By this time the train was nearly 25 mins late - I had already rung the person in Cardiff I was meeting and told him that I had probably missed my (8 min) connection at Westbury. Every one gets off and most then look to see where the Temple Meads train is leaving from. Good news - same platform ! then after a couple of minutes confusion it appears that the train we have just got off is actually the one going to Temple Meads - so we all get back on again.
1. Why is none of this reflected in the timetable ?
(

According to my timetable the only trains from Southampton that terminate at Westbury are those that finish the service in the evening, so I'd be interested on which train it was that you travelled in the morning.
 

moonrakerz

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No, I just wonder why some people feel the need to micromanage others, and have such insecurity that the slightest thing that upsets the flow of their lives warrants blame and condemnation.

Something I have discovered over the years (long before I worked for the railway) is that just because someone is a customer does not make them some sort of god who's slightest whim has to be pandered to, and also does not make them a nice or stable personality.

Looking at some peoples Twitter drivel illustrates my point perfectly.

(I notice that your response was indignation, by the way, not an answer)

The answers to your "questions" are so self evident that any sensible person would not even have asked them.
I imagine that there are many railway workers who are reading this thread are shaking their heads in utter disbelief at your posts ..............

I am starting to think that you were the driver of the train in question whose private conversation was of far more importance than the on time running of the train....

Do not bother to answer - I shall not be reading any more of your self congratulatory drivel.
 

ainsworth74

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I am starting to think that you were the driver of the train in question whose private conversation was of far more importance than the on time running of the train....

I hope flamingo will forgive me for speaking on their behalf but you'd be thinking wrong by labelling him the driver.
 
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