Prevented from boarding while doors closing

PTF62 · 26 Aug 2012

317666 said:
FCC at Kings Cross are absolutely ridiculous, announcing the platform for the Cambridge/Kings Lynn express less than five minutes before it's due to depart.

Five minutes. Luxury.

Before the new concourse opened FCC seemed to delight in giving passengers less than 1 minute to get from the main concourse to platform 11.

And then you would have someone moaning on the tannoy about the number of passengers clustering around the boards at the head of platform 8. Well tell us which platform the train is leaving from and we will go there.

RailUK Forums

tannedfrog · 26 Aug 2012

I recently had to run for an FCC train where the driver was sounding the alarm a full 2 minutes before the scheduled departure time. He didnt seem to know or care about the padding in the timetable, he left straight after closing the doors.

There was no guard, no despatcher, and this was not one of the stations where closing the doors 2 mins early is standard practice.

PaxVobiscum · 26 Aug 2012

Not suggesting it would help in the majority of "mystery platform" or late platform change scenarios, but I noticed yesterday at Glasgow Queen Street that the correct platform for the 0845 Edinburgh train came up on the UK Trains iPhone app about 2 minutes before it appeared on the station board.

I've seen this quite a few times in GLQ and GLC but it doesn't always happen much in advance of the station board. Has saved me a mad competitive dash once or twice at busier times.

wessex · 26 Aug 2012

notadriver said:
What about this situation ? Doors started to close. Running Passenger 1 reaches train and wrenches doors apart. Safety mechanism stops door closing. Passenger 1 boards. After 10 seconds door attempts to reclose. More passengers are running and force open the closing doors a second time. Train is now a minute late with next one in 6 minutes.

Driver gets out of cab as door being forced open is next to cab. He stands by the door to stop even more people running for the train forcing the doors apart. Passengers push past the driver and the half closed doors stating he has no right to block the doors.

Let them get on with it and report the delay, it is beyond your control and might result in personal injury, make an announcement to other passengers stating cause of the delay.

p123 · 26 Aug 2012

BestWestern said:
It may have been that the train was full and ready to depart, but hoards of passengers were still attempting to force their way on. Sometimes the only way is simply to close the doors, as crowds of people will often still be stood there trying to barge their way through no matter how many times they have been yelled at not to. The Underground functions perfectly well using this policy, anything else would simply result in standstill.

Yes, I fully understand this and sympathise with the drivers' problems, especially during times of disruption. The reason I get fairly irritated when it happens is that ScotRail control have a very, very bad habit of offering no alternative means to get to my station when situations like this arise - despite running several express services through the station each hour and refusing to stop them during times of disruption or provide replacement road transport!

Monty · 26 Aug 2012

PTF62 said:
Not really.

If a train company repeatedly causes problems for its customers (late platform announcements or platform changes) that cause passengers to dash for the train, then dashing for a train is clearly acceptable to the train company.

So the train company shouldn't complain when a passenger needs to dash for a train in other circumstances, as to do so would be hypocritical.

Hang on for a minute here are you telling me when a passenger is late because of his own shortcomings the train company should hold up that train because when they (the TOC) are at fault they hold the train to allow passengers to board?

sheff1 said:
Really ? I was at Manchester Oxford Road last week 10 mins before depature time, aiming to get a Liverpool stopper. This was shown on the screens as departing on time from platform 3. About 45 seconds before the scheduled time an announcement was made that the train would depart from platform 5.

I, and others, went over the footbridge only to arrive as the guard shut the doors in our faces. Being on the station half an hour earlier would not have allowed us to catch the train.

I will be interested to see if Northern, in response to my delay claim, tell me that the timekeeping of passengers in not their concern

I am of the belief that if a train company changes/accounces platforms at short notice they should hold that train and make allowances to give passengers a chance to board because they are at fault. That is a pretty poor show indeed, however the point I'm trying to make is if the train is where it should be and is ready to go, it is not unreasonable to expect passengers to do the same. My apologises for not making it clearer.

jon91 · 26 Aug 2012

Short notice changing of platforms seems to happen quite frequently at Leeds for the York-Blackpool North service that I use. It's never been a problem, the guard has always held the train whilst us caught-out made the sprint across the bridge.

Just out of curiosity, what would cause a platform to be changed at short notice like that?

Shimbleshanks · 27 Aug 2012

In slam-door days, they used to keep a few old harridans at London Victoria whose job seemed mainly to scream at any passengers attempting a last-minute boarding. That was pretty effective...

WelshBluebird · 27 Aug 2012

Shimbleshanks said:
In slam-door days, they used to keep a few old harridans at London Victoria whose job seemed mainly to scream at any passengers attempting a last-minute boarding. That was pretty effective...

Still see similar things on FGW HST routes, with either the station dispatchers or the TM screaming at people to stand away from the train.

VTPreston_Tez · 27 Aug 2012

sheff1 said:
Really ? I was at Manchester Oxford Road last week 10 mins before depature time, aiming to get a Liverpool stopper. This was shown on the screens as departing on time from platform 3. About 45 seconds before the scheduled time an announcement was made that the train would depart from platform 5.

I, and others, went over the footbridge only to arrive as the guard shut the doors in our faces. Being on the station half an hour earlier would not have allowed us to catch the train.

I will be interested to see if Northern, in response to my delay claim, tell me that the timekeeping of passengers in not their concern

The problem here is probably that the departure boards at MCO are rather broke. Had the dreaded experience with a Norwich train where it magically vanished about 15 minutes before arrival. The staff there made all kinds of excuses

BestWestern · 30 Aug 2012

WelshBluebird said:
Still see similar things on FGW HST routes, with either the station dispatchers or the TM screaming at people to stand away from the train.

This is, unfortunately, essential, as people pulling at the slam doors of an HST at the last minute can result in a 'door on catch' incident. Idiots have even been known to jump through the open droplight windows of departing HST's

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

swj99 said:
What about infrequent travellers who may not be regular users of public transport in this country, or who only use the train once every decade or so. For example, I know of people who haven't been on a train since slam door carriages were in regular use. How would people like this know what was intended to be meant by an alarm being sounded ?

I would have to reason that anybody capable of using public transport unaided would be able to identify the meaning of a warning alarm sounding from an open automatic door of a train which is about to depart.

swj99 · 31 Aug 2012

BestWestern said:
I would have to reason that anybody capable of using public transport unaided would be able to identify the meaning of a warning alarm sounding from an open automatic door of a train which is about to depart.

Have to ? Says who ? Surely you can reason anything you like.
An alarm could mean a number of different things. I think it's a fair enough question.
Given the amount of noise pollution these days, how would someone unfamiliar with the railways distinguish the door alarm from say a mobile phone ring tone, a shop alarm, a smoke alarm, or anything else. I think the point is made quite well by Chris Tarrant when he says it's only easy if you know the answer.
We (everyone on here) probably all know what the door alarm sounds like and what it means, but that doesn't guarantee that everyone everywhere knows.

MCR247 · 31 Aug 2012

I think the door closing alarms are a pretty universal thing. People are smarter than they get credit for.

BestWestern · 31 Aug 2012

MCR247 said:
I think the door closing alarms are a pretty universal thing. People are smarter than they get credit for.

Indeed. We are well into the realms of pedantry here. There really aren't many people who don't appreciate what a door closing alarm is, those who ignore it are doing it intentionally, trust me.

Greenback · 31 Aug 2012

BestWestern said:
Indeed. We are well into the realms of pedantry here. There really aren't many people who don't appreciate what a door closing alarm is, those who ignore it are doing it intentionally, trust me.

Agreed. Though we have to allow for the fact that there will be deaf and hard of hearing people as well, who may be unable to hear either the alarm or the shouts of staff.

CC 72100 · 31 Aug 2012

BestWestern said:
This is, unfortunately, essential, as people pulling at the slam doors of an HST at the last minute can result in a 'door on catch' incident. Idiots have even been known to jump through the open droplight windows of departing HST's

I can echo this. HST slam doors seem to bring the stupidity out in people. Many a time I've been stood waiting for the train to be unlocked, with people convinced that the door is broken or something - if you read the sign, you'd realise that the doors are not unlocked yet. When attempting to open it, they also seem to get it stuck on the catch quite often when unlocked. I don't know why, but with HSTs, people also seem to think that they can get off at the very last moment, but when they hear the alarm signal on automatic door stock, they know where they stand and that they've missed their chance.

And don't get me started on people who are too lazy to shut the door behind them...

D6975 · 31 Aug 2012

AdamW said:
I can echo this. HST slam doors seem to bring the stupidity out in people. Many a time I've been stood waiting for the train to be unlocked, with people convinced that the door is broken or something - if you read the sign, you'd realise that the doors are not unlocked yet. When attempting to open it, they also seem to get it stuck on the catch quite often when unlocked. I don't know why, but with HSTs, people also seem to think that they can get off at the very last moment, but when they hear the alarm signal on automatic door stock, they know where they stand and that they've missed their chance.

And don't get me started on people who are too lazy to shut the door behind them...

The problem here is that nowadays most normals expect the doors to close automatically - they don't give it a second thought. HSTs are very much the exception, many stations don't have any trains with manual doors call there at all. No excuse for principal GWML stations though.

reb0118 · 31 Aug 2012

A La Frank Spencer!

BestWestern said:
Idiots have even been known to jump through the open droplight windows of departing HST's

CC 72100 · 31 Aug 2012

D6975 said:
The problem here is that nowadays most normals expect the doors to close automatically - they don't give it a second thought. HSTs are very much the exception, many stations don't have any trains with manual doors call there at all. No excuse for principal GWML stations though.

That is also true. However, some Train Managers announce that it speeds up deaprture if you shut the door behind you if you're the last person to do it. It's those that just walk straight past, fully aware of what they're doing that's the problem. In the grand scheme of things, it may take 10 seconds for someone else to go and close the door, but I think we'd all much rather a timely departure than a slightly delayed one due to someones' laziness or ignorance - lots of little delays may mount up.

WelshBluebird · 31 Aug 2012

BestWestern said:
This is, unfortunately, essential, as people pulling at the slam doors of an HST at the last minute can result in a 'door on catch' incident. Idiots have even been known to jump through the open droplight windows of departing HST's

Agreed.
I fully understand why they do it. Some people just don't have any common sense!

AdamW said:
That is also true. However, some Train Managers announce that it speeds up deaprture if you shut the door behind you if you're the last person to do it. It's those that just walk straight past, fully aware of what they're doing that's the problem. In the grand scheme of things, it may take 10 seconds for someone else to go and close the door, but I think we'd all much rather a timely departure than a slightly delayed one due to someones' laziness or ignorance - lots of little delays may mount up.

If I'm walking along a HST that is about to leave just after I get off it I'll always try to shut doors on my way, just so the staff don't have to waste their time.

Prevented from boarding while doors closing

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